Ordered a turbo kit for my C14

[Jeremy Mitchell]

Hey Chet, all you need is new [forged] pistons to run a turbo kit.  Of course while you're at it you should replace the rods, knife edge the crank, port and polish the head and...........................   

[maxtog]

I'm starting to think a turbo may never find it's way onto my [...]

There is no rule saying a turbo/supercharger has to run at high pressure.  Sure, some people want to try and more than DOUBLE their power, but many others would be more than happy with a 70% increase, or maybe 50% (both are still HUGE gains).  The higher the pressure, the most likely there will be damage.  Run at 5 or 6 psi instead of 8-11 psi and perhaps the problems disappear....  The major issue is that there is no way to know the limits without people having failures first 

(I do have some experience, I added an aftermarket Jackson Racing supercharger on my second car).

[punkynlew1]

The C-14 uses a CAST piston as opposed to the ZX which is FORGED.

Therein lies the whole story, essentially the cast piston does not have the inherent mechanical stress capabilities that are necessary due to dynamic cylinder pressures.

Fretka: After talking with you yesterday, I consulted with Chris Jones today. Chris offered me a JE turbo forged 9.5 static CR piston kit at his cost and no additional labor charge. So, that's what we agreed on. Thanks for your info and advice. Later, amigo.    Lew

[Jeremy Mitchell]

Fretka: After talking with you yesterday, I consulted with Chris Jones today. Chris offered me a JE turbo forged 9.5 static CR piston kit at his cost and no additional labor charge. So, that's what we agreed on. Thanks for your info and advice. Later, amigo.    Lew

So will you run more boost or will you stick with the 7-8 psi?  Very interested in the progress.........

[punkynlew1]

So will you run more boost or will you stick with the 7-8 psi?  Very interested in the progress.........

I will stay under 9 psi. Now, just not sure yet if I'm going with JE or Wossner forged 10.5 CR pistons custom made for the C14. Will make final decision in next 2 days.    Lew

[Jeremy Mitchell]

I will stay under 9 psi. Now, just not sure yet if I'm going with JE or Wossner forged 10.5 CR pistons custom made for the C14. Will make final decision in next 2 days.    Lew

Any thoughts on a coating for the skirts (i.e. Swaintech) or ceramic coating for the entire piston? 

[punkynlew1]

Any thoughts on a coating for the skirts (i.e. Swaintech) or ceramic coating for the entire piston?
[/quote

Jeremy: I'm not an expert by any stretch. From looking at the Swaintech website, I would like to do the TBC on the piston domes and PC-9 on the skirts for $38 ea. That is, if I can get the turbo pistons cheap enough. Agua mist cooling is another thing of interest, since there is little room for an air-air intercooler, but it all costs money. One has to determine how far one is willing to go based on the intended use and the depth of his pockets. IMO, if one stays with stage 1, less than 9 psi boost and accepts a max of 260 hp, one really doesn't need to go all out as one would, if they were intending to up the boost and go for something like 400 hp. Others on the forum are more knowledgeable than I on the subject. Later, amigo.    Lew 

[tbanzer]

If I had the motor down this far I would make changes to the camshafts also. Are the heads and the valves the same on the zx14? If thats the case it would be easy to get to zx14hp NA. Then you would be way ahead turboed with lower boost levels.

[Fretka]

The Connie uses an advanced variable timing cam system (good enough that most folks would want to keep it). This system gives the Connie much more bottom/midrange power at some expense to max, top-end power. The cam-train in the ZX is old style fixed timing and would not interchange.
Everyone might keep in mind that some big H.P. number looks good in magazines but is mostly unusable. The beauty of a turbo'ed Connie is that you get incredible midrange power without having to spin the motor mercilessly. TORQUE. In adding ZX parts to try to get ZX power, all you'll likely get is to move the powerband up higher in the rev range and loose that great drivability that we all like.
Turbo sizing will dictate where and at what rpm the power comes on, big turbo= big hp at high rpm's, smaller turbo= boost at lower rpm's. IMHO smaller is better for real world riding.
Bigger valves, intake flow matching and most traditional hot rod methods don't apply to turbos because the intake charge is stuffed into the combustion chamber instead of the piston pulling the charge in. More power? No need to do all the expensive and time consuming modifications necessary for a naturally aspirated engine, just turn the boost up a little (to a point of course).

Fretka

[tbanzer]

That sounds good if it were true, but the facts are a zx14 make more low end torque than the c14. A more efficient intake and Exhaust  profile camshaft will yield higher hp with less boost. Boost is not necessarily an increase in hp. Camshaft profile can dictate boost. In other words a camshaft change may indicate a decrease in boost yet an increase of hp.  My question is do a zx14 and a Concours use the same head and valve sizes.

[SpazOnaConcours]

That sounds good if it were true, but the facts are a zx14 make more low end torque than the c14. A more efficient intake and Exhaust  profile camshaft will yield higher hp with less boost. Boost is not necessarily an increase in hp. Camshaft profile can dictate boost. In other words a camshaft change may indicate a decrease in boost yet an increase of hp.  My question is do a zx14 and a Concours use the same head and valve sizes.

...Not the same head exactly, but uses the same valves & springs. The camshafts are different profiles, but you could put any exhaust cam that you want in there as there is no VVT set-up on it. With that said, though, I'm beginning to think that you can bolt the VVT doo-dad on to a standard ZX-14 cam... I've had a good look at how it's set-up and I'm pretty sure it's possible. If you want to run more cam, though, you need to run more compression. If you want to run more cam on the turbo bike, you're going to make it more peaky and raise the boost threshold if you don't raise the static compression. In plain english, you're making the bike un-streetable in that case. Forged pistons are a must going either route. But the big thing is the chassis: It can barely cope with the amount of power the turbo C14 makes on stock cams. The trade-offs you make in drive-ability/reliability/cost for cams are mostly unrealized because you really can't explore the extra power on the C14 platform... not as a daily driver anyway. Call me crazy(er), but I'd rather have 220hp I can use at will (mostly), than an expensive and finicky 270 that I can only use when the conditions are just perfect.

PS: If the Connie had the full point and a half of extra compression that the ZX14 has and that extra valve lift, I'm pretty certain it would clobber it all over the torque curve. The bigger TB's would help a bit too.

[SpazOnaConcours]

Any thoughts on a coating for the skirts (i.e. Swaintech) or ceramic coating for the entire piston?

...after hearing about the cast pistons in our bike (!!), I'm ordering a set of forged slugs ASAP. 3 days ago, actually. I assumed that since the ZX14 ran forged pistons that the connie would have them as well. Ooops.

FYI, Wossner Pistons coat their piston skirts as a matter of habit.

[tbanzer]

My point in the original post was that as long as its apart I would look into restoring the torque lost during the detuning for the c14. Instead of having to say running 8lbs of boost to achieve a certain hp, 6lbs may yield the same hp and be less prone to detonation on pump fuel. I must say I am shocked and disapointed that Kaw decided to use cast pistons. A turbo was on my to do list this winter until I heard of the piston issue, not sure I want to get into replacing the pistons at this time.

[SpazOnaConcours]

I know what you were saying. I'm just trying to point out that the only way you'll get that torque back is through more cam and compression.. and your margin for error when tuning it on boost goes down when you do that.  It's just not worth doing if you turbocharge at this power level. Now, having a big, hairy NA ZX14 spec motor in the C14 would be pretty awesome too.

The bike makes just about as much low end torque as the chassis can handle anyway... you get it to make much more under 5K rpm and it gets really difficult to ride.

[tbanzer]

The problem is I would like to be able to ride it on the rear wheel in 2nd and 3rd.

[SpazOnaConcours]

Right?

In all seriousness though, it's stable in second gear, and you'd need way more horsepower than I'm making to get it to hike the front in 3rd. Remember she's a loooong, heavy bike.

1st is a pogo stick though.

[SpazOnaConcours]

.....any updates on your kit?

[Wanderlust]

I can't wait to see this...pure lust. Especially with me considering relocating back home.

ZG, btw I am back after getting remarried a few months ago. Best part is, wife would love this mod ))

[ZG]

I can't wait to see this...pure lust. Especially with me considering relocating back home.

ZG, btw I am back after getting remarried a few months ago. Best part is, wife would love this mod ))

 

Nice, congrats bro and welcome back!

[punkynlew1]

.....any updates on your kit?

Hey, Spaz: Chris Jones and I met halfway between my location and his (total distance about 325 mi.) and he loaded my bike on his truck to take to his shop in Chiefland, FL. Chris expects to take about 3 weeks to complete the GT2860R turbo kit and JE 9.5 CR forged turbo piston kit (Chris's own design) install. It will require splitting the cases and complete engine teardown. There will be no need for a turbo oil scavenger pump (small turbo mounts high allowing gravity oil outflow) or adjustable rising rate fuel regulator. Chris will use 1:1 fuel and boost spring regulated to 7 or 8 psi max. I will use 93 octane pump gas normally. When trying to break the 200 mph barrier, I will use C16 race fuel with the same tune/map.

I will have the bike back in time to tow my Leesure Lite Excel camping trailer to Daytona Bike Week and stay at Beemerville in Holiday Rec. Park on I95 north of Daytona. Hope all is well getting your Connie back on the road. Later, amigo. Lew