Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue... (SOLVED! - TPS Recalibration)

[muguvian]

Few observations: 
1.  On military aircraft we use torque stripes to indicate that QA has observed torquing of that particular bolt making it easy to see if that bolt has either a) not yet been torqued or b) tampered with.  I bet KHI uses torque stripes similarly. 

2.  Ejection seat designs and avionics use air data collection systems.  These air data sensors allow for minor drift over the component's life and can be recalibrated but will reject changes it knows are outside the bounds of reason, say 3-5% of the initial set point.  Perhaps that is what you guys are seeing when you try to "uncalibrate."

3.  It's not a sure thing that the volt/throttle-% curve is linear.  While the two end points may or may not change with a recalibration the points in between may have been built to a best-fit curve based on an average of flow characteristics of several reference intake assemblies.  There are manufacturing tolerances for the TBs, intake runners, etc. that the KHI engineers would have to take into account when making fuel/ignition maps.  Since driveability is based on the mid-points rather than the end points, a recal algorithm could have more  effect on the mid-points than the end points.

[tomp]

Man, this thread is getting better and better with every post.  It's the knowledge and growth through confusion that counts the most...Just went out and cranked the bike just to listen to the sound.  BTW, a quick twist of the wrist took the engine from 1000 to 10,000RPM, in a snap.  Again, I do love this bike.   tomp

FWIW, I joined the UK GTR1400 forum tonight.  Always open to more info on this great motorcycle.  tp

[Stephen.G.Fiddes]

Man, this thread is getting better and better with every post.  It's the knowledge and growth through confusion that counts the most...Just went out and cranked the bike just to listen to the sound.  BTW, a quick twist of the wrist took the engine from 1000 to 10,000RPM, in a snap.  Again, I do love this bike.   tomp

FWIW, I joined the UK GTR1400 forum tonight.  Always open to more info on this great motorcycle.  tp

Before I started this thread mine would choke up if I tried to do that throttle snap lol...

To the aircraft mechanic: I'll have to re-read all of that tomorrow to make sense out of it... my brain is done for today.  lol

[tomp]

Before I started this thread mine would choke up if I tried to do that throttle snap lol...

To the aircraft mechanic: I'll have to re-read all of that tomorrow to make sense out of it... my brain is done for today.  lol

Seriously, I didn't understand a thing he said, either.  Not a dummy, just not educated in his field.  Now if this were about sales and marketing, well. . .   tp

[martin_14]

but he pointed at something that I've been thinking myself for a couple of days now.
Stephen tried the calibration and worked, as it did in mine. I don't know if he's a gullible person (I don't think so, since he seems to be inquisitive and open) but I'm an engineer and I drive motorcycles by profession and it's part of my work to analyse these things from a subjective point of view, and later on some other guy will validate objective with subjective data.
My bike changed. There's no way around it. I'm so happy with how it is now, that I won't mess with it. I will not try to un-calibrate it.
But... Stephen managed to un-calibrate it before, and now he can't. So it got me thinking. What if the un-calibration procedure (or normal de-calibration with time, mileage, use) happens within a certain range, like 5% of the proper setting? If we try to cheat the ECU by too wide a margin, it won't bite. It will keep the previous, existing setting.
Maybe you (Stephen) would like to try with the GoCruise or similar, adjusting it just a little bit off?
Or, like others mentioned, this can only work if we disconnect the battery, but I think Stephen managed to do the un-calibration before without resorting to that.
Interesting, indeed.

[just gone]

I also wonder if as mentioned before, maybe it has to do with battery disconnect?

To those that are playing with this but don't want to mess with their battery: you may be able to accomplish the same thing (if it's anything at all to do with anything...there, was that vague enough?) by pulling fuse number two from the #2 fuse block which is the power for the ECU. Pull the fuse and count to..10(?).. and re-insert the fuse and then try the mis-calibrate procedure or the re-calibrate procedure as desired.

 

[Conrad]

Martin, did you perform the procedure on your bike after it was warmed up or before?

after, why? 

I tried the procedure on my bike but it wasn't warmed up. I didn't notice any differences what so ever. I was told that I need to warm the bike first. I keep forgetting to give that a go. The weather around here has been perfect for riding and I've been busy doing that. 

[Rembrant]

3.  It's not a sure thing that the volt/throttle-% curve is linear.  While the two end points may or may not change with a recalibration the points in between may have been built to a best-fit curve based on an average of flow characteristics of several reference intake assemblies.  There are manufacturing tolerances for the TBs, intake runners, etc. that the KHI engineers would have to take into account when making fuel/ignition maps.  Since driveability is based on the mid-points rather than the end points, a recal algorithm could have more  effect on the mid-points than the end points.

Actually, the volt/throttle-%/TPS curve is linear. I've checked it during previous tests long before this discussion ever started, and the two end points do not change either, unless you physically adjust the TPS on the side of the throttlebodies. Keep in mind that the throttle and TPS rotation is only a quarter of a complete revolution. If the TPS output was not linear in such a short sweep, the throttle response would be extremely erratic.

The fueling table/graph in he ECU is actually very simple....much more simple than people realize. The voltage output of the TPS points to a specific percentage column in the fuel table. Now, the percentage line of the columns is not linear...it is very flat until approximately 10-15% throttle opening, at which point it starts to curve up. Once the throttle hits approximately 50%, the line is almost straight up. This is because past 50% throttle, the increase in RPMs is so fast, the ECU does not have time to make a lot of changes.

If you were able to un-calibrate the TPS electronically, you would see more than just a hesitation in the throttle, you would see wild RPM swings and very erratic throttle response....overheating, knocking, stalling, etc. I don't think anybody has reported these symptoms have they?

I suspect what is happening with the two full rotations of the throttle is that people are freeing-up stuck or sticky throttle cables, or perhaps dirt and debris is lodged inside the throttle tube housing, or between the throttle and the handlebar, etc. I doubt most sport touring bikes ever get the throttle pegged to WOT a couple times in a row, so in doing this, I could see a "re-calibration" of the mechanical components happening...they will get dirty/sticky over time. I'm just speculating of course;). This would explain why you cannot un-calibrate it once it's been calibrated, and why it would have no effect on a good working C14.

Rem

[Conrad]

snip...

I suspect what is happening with the two full rotations of the throttle is that people are freeing-up stuck or sticky throttle cables, or perhaps dirt and debris is lodged inside the throttle tube housing, or between the throttle and the handlebar, etc. I doubt most sport touring bikes ever get the throttle pegged to WOT a couple times in a row, so in doing this, I could see a "re-calibration" of the mechanical components happening...they will get dirty/sticky over time. I'm just speculating of course;).

Rem

Some sure do!     

[martin_14]

I suspect what is happening with the two full rotations of the throttle is that people are freeing-up stuck or sticky throttle cables, or perhaps dirt and debris is lodged inside the throttle tube housing, or between the throttle and the handlebar, etc. I doubt most sport touring bikes ever get the throttle pegged to WOT a couple times in a row, so in doing this, I could see a "re-calibration" of the mechanical components happening...they will get dirty/sticky over time. I'm just speculating of course;).

I'm sure a lot of Austrian constabularies would disagree with you 

[Rhino]

I doubt most sport touring bikes ever get the throttle pegged to WOT a couple times in a row,

Almost every day. 

[gPink]

Rem must mean the feejer guys.

[Stephen.G.Fiddes]

<snip>

If you were able to un-calibrate the TPS electronically, you would see more than just a hesitation in the throttle, you would see wild RPM swings and very erratic throttle response....overheating, knocking, stalling, etc. I don't think anybody has reported these symptoms have they?

My symptoms (see OP)
-Hesitation
-Stalling (caused me to set the bike down one time)
-Erratic Throttle Response
-Surging
-Poor Fuel Mileage (I seem to have debunked this, but it could have to do with the fact that I'm riding with much more confidence now too... My last long trip was a couple MPG better tho, same route as usual down I84 from Portland to Hood River.)
-I can't comment on the heating, it seems to run a bit cooler, but it's also been cooler weather now here starting around the time this thread was started.

I suspect what is happening with the two full rotations of the throttle is that people are freeing-up stuck or sticky throttle cables, or perhaps dirt and debris is lodged inside the throttle tube housing, or between the throttle and the handlebar, etc. I doubt most sport touring bikes ever get the throttle pegged to WOT a couple times in a row, so in doing this, I could see a "re-calibration" of the mechanical components happening...they will get dirty/sticky over time. I'm just speculating of course;). This would explain why you cannot un-calibrate it once it's been calibrated, and why it would have no effect on a good working C14.

Rem

You've never seen me pull onto the freeway from a ramp signal... =D

[VirginiaJim]

Ok, here's what I'm going to do tomorrow.  I'll note any idle speed changes.

1.  Ride around the block (about 20 miles) to get the feel of the throttle (I'm not having any issues, though)
2.  Turn off the bike and twist the throttle fully twice
3.  Ride around the block again
4.  Turn off the bike and go through the procedure noted here
5.  Ride around the block and note any differences when I get back.

[gPink]

Be sure to ride the same direction. You wouldn't want to unwind anything.

[AlbertaDoug]

Be sure to ride the same direction. You wouldn't want to unwind anything.

   

[VirginiaJim]

I'm a creature of habit.  Riding in the wrong direction would be wrong.

[Conrad]

I'm a creature of habit.  Riding in the wrong direction would be wrong.

How do you determine which direction is right in the first place?

[Rembrant]

Ok, here's what I'm going to do tomorrow.  I'll note any idle speed changes.

1.  Ride around the block (about 20 miles) to get the feel of the throttle (I'm not having any issues, though)
2.  Turn off the bike and twist the throttle fully twice
3.  Ride around the block again
4.  Turn off the bike and go through the procedure noted here
5.  Ride around the block and note any differences when I get back.

Judging by what others are seeing as a result of this procedure, I expect you'll see impressive results. It appears as though Mr. Steve in Florida and myself are the only ones so far that have tried this procedure with zero change.

I've been reading all the reviews and replies, and not only does it make your engine run better, but it appears to make the transmission shift smoother, and in at least one case, we have a C14 that is cornering better as well.

Please do keep us posted.

Rem

[Conrad]

Judging by what others are seeing as a result of this procedure, I expect you'll see impressive results. It appears as though Mr. Steve in Florida and myself are the only ones so far that have tried this procedure with zero change.

I've been reading all the reviews and replies, and not only does it make your engine run better, but it appears to make the transmission shift smoother, and in at least one case, we have a C14 that is cornering better as well.

Please do keep us posted.

Rem

See post #35. I couldn't detect any differences when I tried this procedure either.

But I did notice that I'm considerably better looking now than I was before I did the procedure. I know, I know, that's hard to believe....