Author Topic: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day  (Read 58858 times)

Offline lt1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 489
  • Country: us
  • 2008 C14
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2012, 05:37:46 PM »
And no mention on Xenon type cage headlights which are so bright on low beam.
Now these car headlights should be banned IMHO.

Brights on=safety and I don't care what you all think.I average 4000-5000 miles each month of riding year round so I think I have some say in my safety! From September 2006 to January 2007 I rode 22,000 miles!

rant off.
Well, we finally have a winner for the Absurdity & Hypocrisy Award!

In spite of all our froth and fury, in the big scheme of things is doesn't probably matter.  I rode about 140 miles today, and there were lots of helmetless riders, some unskilled riders, and bikes with both high or low beam usage.  Didn't see any wrecks, so they probably made it home okay.  In spite of all that, plus poor bike maintenance, worn or car tires, and lack of proper gear, and squid riders, it is still a news story when a biker gets killed.

I hope each of you makes it home safely, whether due to your skills, luck, Divine Providence or your favorite Dumbo's Magic Feather, and regardless of whether you learn anything from the discussion.
Eyes, Brain, Hands.  Repeat.

Offline rtarp1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2012, 06:16:40 PM »
highgeams on during the day.  If your eyes are old and cant handle highbeams in the sunlight you might consider hanging up the gloves before you get killed.

Flathead

  • Guest
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2012, 06:22:38 PM »
Incredibly true.  And I, for one, have never argued that riding with the high-beam doesn't cause more visibility.  In many cases it does!  What I have been saying is that often, just being seen is not enough.  If the light is washing out the rest of the bike, another vehicle has far less information about the location, distance, position, and speed of the bike.  And that does not increase safety...

How much of one cancels the other?  Hard to say.  As the length of this thread shows, it is not an easy question to answer.  Really- I wish I had more and better answers.  But anyone who thinks they are *NOT* annoying at least *SOME* other motorists with daytime highbeams is deluding himself.   Not caring about others does tend to get me riled up :)  (Not that anyone has noticed).

Max, this is a great thread/dialog all the way around, love to hear all of the differing pros/cons!

My references are specifically related headlight modulators (thread hijack???)
It is not my intent to annoy other drivers BUT how often do we hear "I didn't see you", so IMHO, sometimes just being seen is enough. :)  We all, I hope, wear helmets (ATGATT), etc as 'safety' gear when in reality it is 'accident survival gear', it does not make you any safer riding. My thought is that things that I can do to decrease my chances of having an accident, and not having to test my accident gear, is worth it.  YMMV

I would like to know more about the dazzle/blindness that you suffer from, as I have never experienced it in daytime but have a horrible time driving at night. How long does it last, etc... on forum or PM.

Breaker19

  • Guest
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2012, 06:36:59 PM »

Offline stevewfl

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4268
  • Country: 00
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2012, 06:50:03 PM »
highgeams on during the day.  If your eyes are old and cant handle highbeams in the sunlight you might consider hanging up the gloves before you get killed.

“The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.” St. Augustine

Offline lt1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 489
  • Country: us
  • 2008 C14
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2012, 06:53:36 PM »
Taff, I'm sorry you got clobbered.  Regardless of whose fault it was.  In spite of stupid comments like the one after your post, and with which you seem to agree, I don't wish crashes on anyone "to teach them a lesson".

Having said that, and without knowing the details of your crash, there are still some interesting observations.  You were hit running low beams at night, which has nothing to do with our discussion of highbeams during the day.  Concluding that daytime highbeam use is required because of a nighttime lowbeam crash gets you a second Absurdity Award.  You're welcome. :)

You crashed/were crashed on a new-to-you bike.  Again, bikes that are new to the rider (within 6 months) are dramatically over-represented in crashes and fatalities.  It is far more likely that your newness to the bike contributed to the crash than your use of low beams.

Again, it seems that the Magic Talisman Group still seems to think that conspicuity trumps awareness, judgement and skills.  That remains a fallacy.  Which also answers your inquiry as to whether I understand your decision to run highbeams in daylight conditions.  I understand, but disagree, because I understand that your reasoning is based on fallacies.  Not knowing how long ago your crash was, I hope you heal fully, or have already done so.
Eyes, Brain, Hands.  Repeat.

Offline lt1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 489
  • Country: us
  • 2008 C14
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2012, 06:56:31 PM »
There is a company that sells a t-shirt that says:  If you think loud pipes save lives, imagine what learning to ride that thing would do.

Maybe they can add one more t-shirt to the product line:  If you think daytime high beams save lives, imagine what learning to ride that thing would do.
Eyes, Brain, Hands.  Repeat.

Offline Rick Hall

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 624
  • Country: us
  • Eruption
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2012, 07:36:00 PM »
Reading the posts, and doing some serious soul searching (and an occasional "Google" search), I've discovered why I have no need to run with my wig-wag HID mega-blasters on during daylight hours.

You see, I use Mobil-1 oil. Always the red cap, always change every 10k miles (sometimes once a year. Every other year if I can remember), and fill the bike to 2mm above the low oil line on the sight glass. Sometimes 2mm below the top line. And sometimes I just empty a half filled bottle. Religiously.

Change your brand of oil, problem solved. And your receding hairline will stop too. Trust me.

Rick
Rick Hall     1994 ZG 1000 "Sam"      xCOG #1914 (CO)
  GfNi H.P.   DOD #2040   1kQSPT 14.16   IBA #3274
    The Kawasaki Concours page at: www.zggtr.org

Offline stevewfl

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4268
  • Country: 00
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2012, 07:43:30 PM »
Reading the posts, and doing some serious soul searching (and an occasional "Google" search), I've discovered why I have no need to run with my wig-wag HID mega-blasters on during daylight hours.

You see, I use Mobil-1 oil. Always the red cap, always change every 10k miles (sometimes once a year. Every other year if I can remember), and fill the bike to 2mm above the low oil line on the sight glass. Sometimes 2mm below the top line. And sometimes I just empty a half filled bottle. Religiously.

Change your brand of oil, problem solved. And your receding hairline will stop too. Trust me.

Rick

Hey if you added the almighty powerful KiPass accessory to your bike, you could run cooking oil with the same results

“The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.” St. Augustine

Offline booger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 489
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2012, 08:24:47 PM »
There is a difference between good visibility and just annoying people.  Many people who run with their highbeams on in the day don't care how annoying it is to other drivers, because all they care about is being "seen", when in reality, it can be more than just annoying- it can dazzle and blind some people.

High beams can and will blind and/or dazzle oncoming traffic in the daytime which is not only annoying, but also potentially dangerous.  It makes it MUCH harder to tell where the bike is/how far it is away, or which lane it is in.  This tends to throw away many possible safety gains.

If you want more front visibility, I think the best thing to do is to add properly adjusted, wide-angle driving/running lamps as far away from the headlights as possible.  And preferably yellow for additional contrast.  This provides more frontal area, a bigger apparent vehicle size, and more geometric clues for distance calculation.  Plus it helps not only in the day, but also at night, and for more angles/situations.

High beams dazzle and blind people in the daylight?  ???

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8948
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2012, 08:31:07 PM »
ER for 11 days punctured lung, knee arm injuries etc, and yes I was wearing full leathers etc.

Ug, that is awful.  So sorry you went through that.  Thank God you were wearing good gear.

Quote
Perhaps now you will understand why I use high beams.

Sorry, still doesn't compute.  You said your accident was at night.  Using hibeams with oncoming traffic at night is a huge no-no in everyone's book.  100% chance of blinding someone, and it is nearly impossible to not notice a low-beam light at night, unless it was horribly maladjusted or very defective.

But even if I misinterpreted what you said and it was daytime, there is still absolutely no knowing if having high beams on would have helped, hurt, or made no difference.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8948
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2012, 08:34:29 PM »
highgeams on during the day.  If your eyes are old and cant handle highbeams in the sunlight you might consider hanging up the gloves before you get killed.

You are not comprehending the argument.  Plus the person that misjudges where you are is probably driving a car and not using gloves on a motorcycle.

It has to do with not being able to see the location, size, position, and speed of the bike because it is hidden behind a bright light vs. possibly not seeing the bike at all.  And you don't have to have "old" eyes to be momentarily partially incapacitated by looking at the sun or at a highbeam headlight.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8948
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2012, 08:51:24 PM »
Max, this is a great thread/dialog all the way around, love to hear all of the differing pros/cons!

Nothing like a hot topic and lots of opinions :)

Quote
My references are specifically related headlight modulators (thread hijack???)

Well, it is a fork off the conversation, but certainly related.

Quote
It is not my intent to annoy other drivers BUT how often do we hear "I didn't see you", so IMHO, sometimes just being seen is enough. :)  We all, I hope, wear helmets (ATGATT), etc as 'safety' gear when in reality it is 'accident survival gear', it does not make you any safer riding. My thought is that things that I can do to decrease my chances of having an accident, and not having to test my accident gear, is worth it.  YMMV

Headlight modulation (or any flashing from lights) does create motion, and that is MUCH more effective than just plain light at gaining attention.  Sometimes it is unwanted attention though (as testament to the way people behave when encountering them).  I personally think that if a modulator is used, it should be only in the daytime (that is duh) and only with the lowbeam light.  But I still think there are far better options.... even with modulation.... some of them are also generally unknown and probably not legal.  For example, one option is a 1 Hz or 0.76 Hz white strobe in tandem with the low beam on solid.  I have experimented with this and I believe the "wink" is enough to stand out, but without being overly annoying or blinding.  At the moment, the test lamp I have been using is not bright enough.

Quote
I would like to know more about the dazzle/blindness that you suffer from, as I have never experienced it in daytime but have a horrible time driving at night. How long does it last, etc... on forum or PM.

Some people are getting stuck on the word "dazzle/blinding" and thinking that is the big thrust of the argument, and it is not.  It has to do with masking the size, shape, position, distance, etc of the bike behind an intense light.  That, in and of itself, can cause several types of safety issues.  "Blinding" is not necessary.

However, it is true that people can become momentarily (seconds) partially visually incapacitated by bright lights, even in the daytime.  Several people I know have expressed to me that this happens to them.  Different people have different "recovery time" for the eyes to adjust from one level of light to another.   It is not limited to only night time driving, but can happen all over the full spectrum of lighting conditions.

Like you, I also have some trouble at night, but nowhere near as badly as my best friend, who can't ride anymore at night and has to be careful even in a car (and no, he is not that old).  It has gotten worse over the years, but partially because headlights have become so much more powerful.  It doesn't help that an incredible number of headlights are very improperly adjusted.  And even something as simple as having dirty lenses can cause a huge amount of scattering light (this is why many European countries require cars to have automatic headlight washers).

Hope this info helps.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Cuda

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 782
  • Country: us
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #73 on: June 19, 2012, 08:57:06 PM »
Hey Maxtog I bet you spend wayyyyyyy more time telling everyone how to live their lives than you spend riding you bike .... go for a ride .

Hope this info helps????
Old and SLOW                   COG 11405
Gods waiting room Naples
2011 Atomic  Silver

Offline marku8a

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 199
  • Country: 00
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #74 on: June 19, 2012, 09:59:24 PM »
Quite a lively discussion!

Nothing like a hot topic and lots of opinions :)

Well, it is a fork off the conversation, but certainly related.

Headlight modulation (or any flashing from lights) does create motion, and that is MUCH more effective than just plain light at gaining attention.  Sometimes it is unwanted attention though (as testament to the way people behave when encountering them).  I personally think that if a modulator is used, it should be only in the daytime (that is duh) and only with the lowbeam light.  But I still think there are far better options.... even with modulation.... some of them are also generally unknown and probably not legal.  For example, one option is a 1 Hz or 0.76 Hz white strobe in tandem with the low beam on solid.  I have experimented with this and I believe the "wink" is enough to stand out, but without being overly annoying or blinding.  At the moment, the test lamp I have been using is not bright enough.

I have only been riding with my modulator for about a year. It has a daylight sensor that will not allow it to operate in darkness or low light. It's perfectly legal. You mention "winking" which is the way I would describe the way mine works. It dims the beam gradually to about 50% brightness 2 times per second. It's not like a strobe light. I use it when I am in congested areas where it’s likely to encounter an “I didn’t see you” driver. I turn it off at other times. I have noticed an increased awareness from others on the road and am I happy with the results so far. If it annoys others, so be it. I am looking out for #1.

I agree that riding skills play a big part of avoiding trouble. Handling the bike is one aspect but situational awareness is a big part of it. I have put in several thousand miles cycling (the pedal kind with no headlight) and have noticed that there are similar skills that have kept me out of trouble. They are a lot of little things like if the driver is looking at you (might not see you), movement of their hands on the steering wheel, looking at their wheels to see if they are rolling into your path. I assume that I am not being seen.

The bottom line for me is that all of this discussion is interesting but anecdotal. With out objective evidence of what works and what doesn’t we will all have to do what each of us think is best.

Mark
2009 C14 Red
Fly_ectomy, K&N Filter, Oxford Heated Grips, PC V, Full Area P Exhaust
How far can a person run into a forest?

Offline Pokey

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2487
  • Country: us
  • WESTERVILLE OHIO 'Twit"
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #75 on: June 19, 2012, 10:22:02 PM »
I run high beams most of the time except at night....don't ride much then.


Ditto! :thumbs:
2006 DL1000  2006 SV650
08 C14 "gone"

"All we have to do is decide what to do with the time given to us". Gandalf the Grey

Offline jamiemac

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 605
  • Country: us
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #76 on: June 19, 2012, 10:42:20 PM »
Bet you're saying "I'm never gonna wash this helmet!" lol  8)
One more signature & I'm clear coating it, & then retiring it. Hehe
2008 C14, Area-P carbon fiber, PCV, Rostra Cruise, LAAM leather seat, Optilux 1500 & MondoMoto MM10 lights, Cee Bailey windshield, BMC air filter, Warm & Safe dual dash mounted heat troller.

Offline martin_14

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1379
  • Country: ar
  • know who you are
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #77 on: June 20, 2012, 12:15:39 AM »
...it seems that the Magic Talisman Group still seems to think that conspicuity trumps awareness, judgement and skills.  That remains a fallacy.  ...

+106!
Build bridges, not walls.

Education is important. Riding my bike is importanter.

Offline lt1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 489
  • Country: us
  • 2008 C14
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #78 on: June 20, 2012, 01:01:05 AM »
I take great displeasure reading your comments regarding my crash which was not my fault at all.Just for the record I have been riding various bikes, including crotch rockets for many many years., more than I care to remember.
I'm okay with that.  Considering your description of your injuries, perhaps you would want to consider what you could have done to avoid the crash, even if it wasn't your fault. 

Oh, wait.  You did change your behavior.  Now you run high beams during the day.
Eyes, Brain, Hands.  Repeat.

Offline lt1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 489
  • Country: us
  • 2008 C14
Re: I ride with my C14 high-beam on during the day
« Reply #79 on: June 20, 2012, 01:04:52 AM »
You Sir are way off base!
My apologies.  The correct quote is:  If loud pipes save lives, imagine what learning to ride that thing could do.
http://atgattrat.blogspot.com/2009/09/if-loud-pipes-save-lives.html

The new shirt would read:  If daytime high beams save lives, imagine what learning to ride that thing could do.

Thanks for catching my error.
Eyes, Brain, Hands.  Repeat.