Author Topic: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness  (Read 11976 times)

Offline Beamer

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Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« on: June 05, 2012, 07:28:41 AM »
I've loved my 09 ABS since it was new, the engine is smooth and strong everywhere in it's power, other than right off idle.

I was wondering what a procedure might be to check / verify a throttle position sensor setting / setup on the throttle bodies. My bike just feels like the flies are not totally in tune with the throttle.

Small, tight, rolling corners in low gears it is very hard to roll on the power from a closed throttle setting.

Things feel better when I have the throttle cables adjusted with zero slop and almost tight enough to hang the throttle, thus leading me to believe that the ECU is just opening the flies slightly late vs what I am doing with the throttle.

In a perfect world yes I would like to just eliminate the flies all-together (with a Fly-Ectomy or Guhl re-flash) but that is just going to have to wait until I can justify spending the funds on something that should function correctly / be calibrated correctly from the factory.

Offline The Pope

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 07:40:10 AM »
What is your engine idle speed (after the engine is warmed up)?

If it'd below 1200 RPM, adjust it up. There's an adjustment knob on the end of a cable near (above) the left foot peg.
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2012, 08:42:00 AM »
Have a look at this.

G2 Throttle Tamer

http://www.g2ergo.com/g2-tamer-throttle-tubes-1.html  (free shipping right now too)



Lots of us have installed these and for me it made a good bit of difference. It takes care of the 'throttle snatch' for the most part.

G2 Tamer Tube by G2 Ergonomics
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Offline rtarp1

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 09:17:46 AM »
try downshifting before the turn so your in the correct gear and it will roll out just fine.

Offline Beamer

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 10:07:34 AM »
try downshifting before the turn so your in the correct gear and it will roll out just fine.

I am, it is just the un-forseen that is encountered that would require someone to adjust (a pot hole that might need one to let off and go wider / tighter in the middle of the turn or for example someone stepping off of a curb).

It just seems near impossible to try and run anywhere between Idle and 2000rpm.

Idle is right on between 1100-1200rpm

Son of Pappy

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2012, 10:14:44 AM »
For grins and giggles bump it up to 1250.  I think you will be pleased with the results.  Maintaining the air velocity helps keep things moving.

Offline rtarp1

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2012, 10:59:23 AM »
i am never riding between idle and 2k rpm, dont know why you would.   gd luk.

Offline Beamer

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2012, 11:20:45 AM »
i am never riding between idle and 2k rpm, dont know why you would.   gd luk.

Living in the suburbs of Minneapolis, riding to and from work I have to spend some time in tight traffic, tight urban streets.

Back to my original question. I am assuming there is not way to verify / calibrate a throttle position sensor?

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2012, 01:39:36 PM »
Barring all the suggestions above (which actually work quite well), you could also get a throttle sync done.  Messing with the throttle sensor adjustment may do more harm than good (seen at least one instance of that by a well meaning Kwak tech).  However, input voltage to the sensor from my manual should be 4.75-5.25v. 

Sensor is within spec if the output is .63v at idle and 3.91v at full throttle.  Idle speed is spec'd at 1100rpm for this test.  Resistance test if 4-6k ohms.  I would suggest getting a manual if you wish to delve into the nether regions of the bike to do this.   I don't recommend messing with it but it's your bike.

From the manual and I quote 'Do not remove or adjust the main throttle sensor.  It has been adjusted and set with precision at the factory.'  That leads me to believe to give it the sign of the cross and back away.

So long story short.....no.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2012, 10:01:18 PM »
i am never riding between idle and 2k rpm, dont know why you would.   gd luk.

Indeed.  The only time the bike should ever be "riding" between idle and 2K rpm is in first gear, just taking off or maybe creeping in VERY slow traffic.  The bike has no power at all in any other gear in that low an RPM.
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Offline rtarp1

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2012, 07:20:56 AM »
dude im sensing its your riding style thats the problem.  downshift and raise those rpms, this engine isnt happy unless its over 2500k rpm .  this isnt a moped.  no offense.

Offline So Cal Joe

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2012, 07:39:57 AM »

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If you are born twice you will die once

Offline Makz58

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2012, 07:46:33 AM »
I have the same issue in very tight corners that demand very low speed.....I bumped up my idle some adjusted my throttle cables all of which seemed to have helped somewhat...I think I will look into the tamer if I can install it on my 10 with the heated grips. Now entering such corners at higher RPM no.
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Offline Beamer

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2012, 08:34:40 AM »
Thru my 16 years and 150,000+ miles of riding I have had the privilege to own 6 street motorcycles of my own (along with countless other dirt bikes, ATVs, snowmobiles, etc....) and though I wouldn't consider myself a Kenny Roberts, I would say I am above average on riding skills. Of my previous bikes, none have had this kind of "jerk" or snap when coming off of a closed throttle position.

My reasoning for asking the question is to verify that the machine itself is functioning correctly, so I was looking for some technical information on how everything could be verified prior to considering something is actually "wrong".

I'll be quite honest in the fact that I don't ride around looking at the tach, so I am guessing the RPM level is around 2000rpm. When I ride, my eyes are forward looking at the end of the corners and not 3 feet in front of the bike, but given the poor overall condition of the roads here in Minnesota, you have to make changes and correct mid turn. I haven't had the privilege to memorize every corner within 100 miles of where I live, so sometimes the commitment made to the corner has to be changed, because more often then not there is a pot hole, crack, or length of highway crack-patch that I'd rather not risk crashing over, so correction is required.

I am actually suspect that the ECU is unable to hole the flies at a low throttle position, thus leaving a "gap" in which one can actually modulate the throttle in a position in which the flies are non-functional. Several of the threads I have read about people removing the flies / Guhl flash have actually said this phenomenon goes away. Thus leading me to believe that there might be something to the theory. It is also why a different cam profile on the throttle tube could improve it or correct it.

Offline rtarp1

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2012, 09:02:20 AM »
So CAL JOE    excellent video!!!!    now that i have the correct understanding of what im doing it will be easier to explain it to others.   The weight ransfer to the rear of the bike to increase contact patch and tighten the turn  by increasing throttle was especially helpful to understand.  i always felt these things but never understood the physics of them .     I Found i was doing some things wrong like focusing where i dont want to go and leaning over too far and too late.
 i want to get the bike out now and go for a run .     

thanks bro!


Offline rtarp1

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2012, 09:04:33 AM »
Beamer
  i dont know bro , i dont understand your problem . maybe its because i ride more aggressively , i dont know ,  good luck .

Offline lt1

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2012, 09:05:37 AM »
I have not had much of an issue with throttle response as you have described, and what little existed went away with the cable adjust, and TB synch.  The Guhl reflash is nice as well, but was not needed to fix the issue you seem to be having.

Without piling on, I would have to suggest that if you are rolling off the throttle regularly in mid-corner, you might want to re-consider your riding techniques.  Whether you are over-running your sightlines or letting your SR's kick in, it doesn't seem to be working well for you.  You could also use the friction zone to control the speed instead of the throttle, but that is perhaps more of a band-aid than a cure.  I still do not consider myself much of a rider, but I had over 150k and 15 years of riding in before I began to really understand how bikes worked and how to start correcting all the bad habits I had accumulated.
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Offline Beamer

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2012, 10:48:03 AM »
The TB sync is what my original question was about. If anyone had a procedure for it and / or a throttle position sensor calibration procedure.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2012, 11:16:00 AM »
The TB sync procedure is in the manual.  Buy one for your bike year.  There is no sanctified adjustment for the throttle sensor.

I don't think anyone here has posted a DIY thread on the TB Procedure.  There's a guy named Fred on the 'other' forum that sells DVDs on the maint procedure.  He recommends the manual as well along with his videos, which are quite good.  I have them and along with the manual are very valuable to me.

Threads I found on TB sync using Search...  (By golly gee it does work....I'll have to tell Rick.)

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2672.45
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4257.0
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Offline C1xRider

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Re: Correcting off-idle harsh-ness
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2012, 08:34:11 AM »
Thanks Jim, I was going to go searching for those myself (doing a sync now) .  You just saved me the trouble.

  :)
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