Correcting off-idle harsh-ness

[marku8a]

Small, tight, rolling corners in low gears it is very hard to roll on the power from a closed throttle setting.

Yes I have been riding for ages and experienced the same thing with my CBR929 and my C-14. Research tells me that it's a characteristic of EFI. These are the 2 first EFI bikes that I have owned. Adjusting the cables is a good start. Bump the idle to 1200. The G2 Throttle Tamer made a big improvement. I did these things to my C-14 but not the CBR929. I did install a Power Commander on the 929 and it fixed the problem. I did the same with the C-14. With the Power Commander and the other fixes it works very smoothly and predictable from throttle closed to partial throttle.

So CAL JOE    excellent video!!!!   

Indeed! I have the book mentioned in the video. I also took a 2 day class by Keith Code (guy in the video). It was at the Streets of Willow Springs track (also in the video). I have done a lot of MX racing and street riding but learned a ton at the class. I did it with my 929 and will do do the same with my C-14. Highly recommended.

Mark

[stevewfl]

Have a look at this.

G2 Throttle Tamer

http://www.g2ergo.com/g2-tamer-throttle-tubes-1.html  (free shipping right now too)

I try so hard to understand this "throttle tamer" phenomenon.  Compared to the ZX4 and track bikes I've had, the C14 touts the tamest throttle I've ever known.

[Conrad]

I try so hard to understand this "throttle tamer" phenomenon.  Compared to the ZX4 and track bikes I've had, the C14 touts the tamest throttle I've ever known.

Try harder.

[The Pope]

I try so hard to understand this "throttle tamer" phenomenon.  Compared to the ZX4 and track bikes I've had, the C14 touts the tamest throttle I've ever known.

That's just the Mad Power of KPASS that has taken over you Steve. It leaves very little room to understand the things that others can due to it's Mad Power. 

[stevewfl]

That's just the Mad Power of KPASS that has taken over you Steve. It leaves very little room to understand the things that others can due to it's Mad Power. 

Thanks for helping me understand! 

I should've known that mad pow-ah came into this thing somehow, all my other bikes have always lacked it

[lather]

I was skeptical about the throttle tamer until I tried it. From mile 1 I noticed a speed control issue
taking off from a stop and making a 90 degree turn such as at an intersection with a stop sign or straight ahead in slow traffic. A line of cars will want to take off slower than a bike wants to go - a bike needs a little speed to balance smoothly, a car don't care. On all my other bikes I used the clutch friction zone but for some reason my C14 does not like its clutch slipped. I defintely have to use a different clutch tecnique. I never considered this a problem, just a adjustment I need to make between different bikes I regularly ride. (I have to adjust my braking technique also because the C14 brakes are so much better)

 Removing the flies did not change this low speed issue but the throttle tamer did help it. I also notice that parking lot  meanuoevers and U-turns are easier. BTW I have 40 years and 375000 miles experience but I still keep learning how to ride better every day.

Speaking of friction zone I was watching Martin Cardenas dominate the last AMA race and  Ralph Shaheen wondered why he was able to brake so much more smoothly than the next two closest contenders. I thought it was very interesting that Scott Russell's  response was that it was superior clutch control. I don't seem to hear much about it but maybe clutch control can be as important as throttle and braking.

[VirginiaJim]

 

[stevewfl]

Helped me understand, thanks lather

[lather]

Whoa dudes! I'll get the big head

[Barry]

Have a look at this.

G2 Throttle Tamer

http://www.g2ergo.com/g2-tamer-throttle-tubes-1.html  (free shipping right now too)



Lots of us have installed these and for me it made a good bit of difference. It takes care of the 'throttle snatch' for the most part.

G2 Tamer Tube by G2 Ergonomics

Worth 2x what I paid for it.  Should be OEM part.

Barry

[Barry]

Speaking of friction zone I was watching Martin Cardenas dominate the last AMA race and  Ralph Shaheen wondered why he was able to brake so much more smoothly than the next two closest contenders. I thought it was very interesting that Scott Russell's  response was that it was superior clutch control. I don't seem to hear much about it but maybe clutch control can be as important as throttle and braking.

Scott knows his stuff.  Clutch control is a hugely overlooked portion of the rider tool kit that most non-racers overlook, based on conversations and what I read on forums.

YMMV,
Barry

[Fretka]

This is a common problem with many bikes, Yamaha FZ bikes were notorious for this and my BMW RR is also a PIA. My '09 Connie did it as well until I tuned it out. Old flat-slide racing carbs were this way as well. The change to vacuum slides fixed this.

What your experiencing is the transition from idle mixture to acceleration mixture mapping. This is a problem with VERY small throttle openings and can be "jerky" when you need fine throttle control.

I suspect that the connie needs to be programmed with more set-points closer together right at small throttle openings but this would require more memory and a complete re-design of the ECU. Another words "more sensitivity".

The only way I got rid of it was by leaning out that area with my PC5 which lessened the initial hit when first opening the throttle.

So no, you're not imagining this problem, it's that you have a very high awareness level and want finesse with the throttle!

Fretka

[556ALPHA]

The ST1300 is horrible in low/off idle acceleration.  Those guys use a Fuel Pressure Regulator to solve the problem along with a Throttle Tamer.  I did the same as several have suggested, good cable adjustment/lube and added the Tamer.  Definitely helped.

[Fretka]

BTW.... there is a sub-function in the PC 5 called "accelerator pump" that will just about guarantee to make this precise problem WORSE!
I suggest to leave that off.


F.

[Joncon11]

My 2007 VFR800 was the snatchiest throttle I have ever dealt with. My fix for it was a fuel pressure regulator from the European Fireblade that runs at a higher PSI (35 to 46 if I remember right). The theory is that there is a tad more fuel coming out of the injectors than the bike is programed for therefore smoothing the transition. Kind of like altering the latency of the injectors by way of programming. It did help a bit.  The carbed SV650 I used to have had a very smooth transition, I imagine that with modern FI bikes it boils down to programming. Perhaps the ZX-14 runs a higher pressure regulator that is compatible with the connie's engine?

[martin_14]

I found two things that help with controlling the bike at low speeds, in that somewhat troublesome 1000-2000 rpm area:
1. eliminate gas cable play --> this allows for more predictability on the throttle response
2. mild use the rear brake (I have an '08, so no linked brakes), which pre-loads the drive train and helps with the weight transfer in slow, tight turns.
A better solution has been the PCV, but as you say: the vehicle should work glitch-free from factory.

[rtarp1]

Ran the bike around today and i understand your problem now.  yes it is annoying .  touchy throttle in turns makes it tough to be smooth.   

[Beamer]

Ive tried changing how I ride some, putting allot of emphasis on being in the right gear before the corner and being on the gas before the corner. Works fine out in the open road, but for situations like pulling into the alley behind my garage, pulling into parking lots off of a busy street, etc...... you can't avoid it. Just worried about catching the "snap" at the wrong time and dumping the bike.

I found you can duplicate it at 4000+ rpm now when downshifting prior to the corner and having to come back on the gas after letting the clutch out. Thus far the only real solution on how to correct it is to get into the right gear, and then slip the clutch some when letting the clutch out.

[C1xRider]

I have the same issues with mine, especially on downhill switchbacks (the 10mph kind).  Because 1st gear is so tall, and the deceleration entering the turn causes the drive train slop to be at max, you really have to be careful when you start rolling on the throttle mid turn.  That sudden jolt almost caused mine to jump off the outside of the turn.

Also on mine, ECO mode makes it much, much worse.

[martin_14]

I have the same issues with mine, especially on downhill switchbacks (the 10mph kind).  Because 1st gear is so tall, and the deceleration entering the turn causes the drive train slop to be at max, you really have to be careful when you start rolling on the throttle mid turn.  That sudden jolt almost caused mine to jump off the outside of the turn.

Also on mine, ECO mode makes it much, much worse.

try the rear brake trick, it helps (I don't know with the linked brakes, but with mine it helps).