final drive leak?** UPDATE with question! ***

[lather]

oh? 

Moly paste and high temp grease are two pretty different animals. I would use what is specified in the manual. You can buy hight temp grease for less than 3 bucks

[B.D.F.]

I think that is exactly the right amount of lube to use on the splines.... of 496 motorcycles. Put another way, WOW is that a LOT of moly paste! I would wipe that stuff up (it only functions where the splines contact each other (male / female) so all that lube spread everywhere isn't doing anyone any good anyway.

The lips are the lips on of the seal on the wheel hub opposite of the drive. The rubber lip seal there has two lips on it and you should wipe a dab of grease in the valley between the two lips (easy boys!).

The reason the manual recommends high temperature grease is so that when the wheel gets warm (from braking), the grease in the hub and wheel bearings does not run out and get on the brake disc. I usually use wheel bearing grease anywhere inside the hub and just a touch of moly paste right on the seal lips. Be careful not to use too much moly paste though because it will spread outside the wheel (enough to coat a fingernail is too much- just use a trace of the stuff).

Brian

Not sure what they were doing.  Probably wanted to make sure they got it.  LOL


Im going to clean it off.  How would one go about applying int correctly?  Just a small about in the teeth of the gear?

Also, what lip are they talking about to apply high temp grease?

Thanks!

Dade22

[Tom J.]

I can't find Moly 60 anywhere.  Even the Honda shops in town are out of stock.  What's an acceptable alternative that I can get form Auto Zone or Checker Auto Parts?

[lt1]

I can't find Moly 60 anywhere.  Even the Honda shops in town are out of stock.  What's an acceptable alternative that I can get form Auto Zone or Checker Auto Parts?

Did you ask or just check the shelves?  There was none on the shelves, but they brought it out of the back when I asked.

[Conrad]

Did you ask or just check the shelves?  There was none on the shelves, but they brought it out of the back when I asked.

Same here. I had to ask the parts guy at the local Honda dealer. He went around back and brought out a dust covered package of the stuff for me. He said that they don't get much call for the stuff but that he had plenty.

[VirginiaJim]

Never used the stuff and the bike is still operational.  I know I'm living on the edge, though.

[Conrad]

Never used the stuff and the bike is still operational.  I know I'm living on the edge, though.

That's you though, a risk taker living life on the ragged edge. 

[VirginiaJim]

I must confess though, that I did buy a tube of the Honda moly some time back after the original thread came out about the potential drive shaft issue.  Problem is.....I lost it.  It's in my garage somewhere.....I think.  I'll probably find it after I do a good garage cleaning or wash the bike (not bloody likely on either account).  I've resolved not to buy another tube until I find either that my drive shaft fails due to inadequate lubrication, or the rear wheel tines disintegrate, whichever occurs first.  I do use some Valvoline multi-purpose (fortified with an insignificant amount of moly) grease whenever I'm working in the rear wheel area.  So far no issues.  I've had that grease for 15 years, at least.  Must be good stuff as I've had no issues with the four shaftie bikes I've owned in that time.

[Jeremy Mitchell]

I must confess though, that I did buy a tube of the Honda moly some time back after the original thread came out about the potential drive shaft issue.  Problem is.....I lost it.  It's in my garage somewhere.....I think.  I'll probably find it after I do a good garage cleaning or wash the bike (not bloody likely on either account).  I've resolved not to buy another tube until I find either that my drive shaft fails due to inadequate lubrication, or the rear wheel tines disintegrate, whichever occurs first.  I do use some Valvoline multi-purpose (fortified with an insignificant amount of moly) grease whenever I'm working in the rear wheel area.  So far no issues.  I've had that grease for 15 years, at least.  Must be good stuff as I've had no issues with the four shaftie bikes I've owned in that time.

I used regular grease until I found out about moly 60.  I never had any problems but I figured that if there was something better out there that I should go ahead and pay $8 for 3 ounces of the stuff.  Better safe than sorry.  Oh and the tube should have a warning on it like potato chips.
Sold by weight, not by volume.  Contents may will settle during transit and when you open the tube you will look inside and wonder what in the hell happened to the other half of the tube.   

[dras]

I thought it was only me that got the half full tubes! When I opened my new tube from the sealed package it was literally like 60% full. I thought I got screwed, but it seems that's the norm for this stuff. 

It'll prolly last me a lifetime anyway.

[VirginiaJim]

When I find mine, I'll check to see if the contents settled.  I'll let you know.

[Flathead]

I can't find Moly 60 anywhere.  Even the Honda shops in town are out of stock.  What's an acceptable alternative that I can get form Auto Zone or Checker Auto Parts?

Pretty good article on shaft drives: http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Shaft.html#Gears I can't seem to find an actual specification in the 1400 service manual, just "Apply molybdenum disulfide grease", no real spec on the moly content though

[B.D.F.]

You will not find moly paste in any auto supply shop, or as you have found out, even many motorcycle dealers. Honda 60 moly paste is the easiest of all the brands to find; any Honda dealer can order it and it is something like $10 for a tube (lifetime supply for a motorcycle owner).

The difference between moly grease and moly paste is that moly grease does not contain much moly (usually 3% to 5%) while moly paste will contain at least 60% solid moly. There are other brands (Loctite, Dow Corning, etc.) but they are actually more expensive and usually much harder to find compared with the Honda brand. One other source is McMaster- Carr but you will have to be careful because some of their "high pressure" greases only contain 30% moly, not 50%.

Brian

I can't find Moly 60 anywhere.  Even the Honda shops in town are out of stock.  What's an acceptable alternative that I can get form Auto Zone or Checker Auto Parts?

[JS_racer]

That is a relatively slow leak; some leak badly enough to leave a puddle on the wheel and spill down the tire onto the ground. My leak was caused by a failed inner seal.

Brian

mine looks just like that but much less. inner seal is leaking for sure. how do i know if it will go 500 miles on a ride ?? and "if" i were to chance it, bring lube, brake cleaner, towel, paper towels and painters tape ??
seal is ordered and scheduled for Monday., shoot, is there bearings that cause this too or just the seal ?? under warranty either way

20+ year ase master mechanic, and my bike mechanic saw the inner seal leaking. Definitely not over filled. (not sure how you can overfill it with a big gaping hole with the plug out, lol)

[B.D.F.]

Yeah, I don't know how much stock I put into the overfilled thought either- the drives simply should not leak by the seals and if they are overfilled, they should leak out of the vent rather than past the seals.

The usual practice is to change the small bearing when the seal is changed. The bearing has to be driven out by the inner race and bearings should not be re-used after being subjected to that. So the bearing is usually replaced just because the old bearing is abused to remove it, no other reason.

When mine started to leak, I simply made a 'diaper' out of three or four paper towels rolled length- wise and wrapped around the hub such that about an inch of paper towel was projecting past the gap where the wheel meets the hub. I taped the paper towel roll (or band) onto the hub so that the wheel could turn inside it. In several hundred miles of further riding there was not enough leakage to soak the paper towels so there certainly was not any appreciable drop in fluid level, although I did check the level to be sure it was not dropping.

Once mine was repaired, I put several hundred miles on it before I would travel any great distance with the bike, just to be sure the leak was cured and to rebuild my confidence. My bike is past 85K miles and has been across the entire US in timed runs with no further problem. So I would recommend getting it repaired and then accumulating some miles, if at all possible when it is hot out as that seems to be when they fail (not a fact, just an impression I have gotten). As I remember, there has been one person who had a second failure of the inner seal and that resulted in an entire new final drive under warranty.

Best of luck with it but the second seal should be the 'charm'.

Brian

mine looks just like that but much less. inner seal is leaking for sure. how do i know if it will go 500 miles on a ride ?? and "if" i were to chance it, bring lube, brake cleaner, towel, paper towels and painters tape ??
seal is ordered and scheduled for Monday., shoot, is there bearings that cause this too or just the seal ?? under warranty either way

20+ year ase master mechanic, and my bike mechanic saw the inner seal leaking. Definitely not over filled. (not sure how you can overfill it with a big gaping hole with the plug out, lol)

[JS_racer]

thanks Brian. do you recall if you had a bearing replaced also ?? not sure the bearing and seal people are referring to being replaced, if thats the needle bearing next to the seal. i only ordered the inner seal for the dealer, if they need more parts i can leave the bike there. I go past several other dealers to go to this one, good or bad, time will tell but i think good.
also read about foaming, i have seen vehicles foam up before pulling the cover, but never my bike using Mobil 1. vent has always been clean and dry. no bubbles draining warm either.

thanks,
Joel

[B.D.F.]

Are you paying for this out of pocket Joel? If so- ouch!

Yes, they replaced the bearing in front on the inner seal on mine at the same time they replaced the seal.

The very best of luck getting this repaired. While it is a known problem on these bikes, I do not believe it is chronic and can usually be taken care of with just a seal replacement.

Let us know how you make out and if there is anything we can help with.

Brian

thanks Brian. do you recall if you had a bearing replaced also ?? not sure the bearing and seal people are referring to being replaced, if thats the needle bearing next to the seal. i only ordered the inner seal for the dealer, if they need more parts i can leave the bike there. I go past several other dealers to go to this one, good or bad, time will tell but i think good.
also read about foaming, i have seen vehicles foam up before pulling the cover, but never my bike using Mobil 1. vent has always been clean and dry. no bubbles draining warm either.

thanks,
Joel

[JS_racer]

Warranty repair, just pre ordered the seal so they had it in hand so i could wait for it. If they need more parts, i can leave it there.

Any quick sketch or picture of that diper? Lol. Must not be too creative. Oil didn't hurt the cush drive at all?

Thanks
Joel.

[Cheesecake]

Yeah, I don't know how much stock I put into the overfilled thought either- the drives simply should not leak by the seals and if they are overfilled, they should leak out of the vent rather than past the seals.

The usual practice is to change the small bearing when the seal is changed. The bearing has to be driven out by the inner race and bearings should not be re-used after being subjected to that. So the bearing is usually replaced just because the old bearing is abused to remove it, no other reason.

When mine started to leak, I simply made a 'diaper' out of three or four paper towels rolled length- wise and wrapped around the hub such that about an inch of paper towel was projecting past the gap where the wheel meets the hub. I taped the paper towel roll (or band) onto the hub so that the wheel could turn inside it. In several hundred miles of further riding there was not enough leakage to soak the paper towels so there certainly was not any appreciable drop in fluid level, although I did check the level to be sure it was not dropping.

Once mine was repaired, I put several hundred miles on it before I would travel any great distance with the bike, just to be sure the leak was cured and to rebuild my confidence. My bike is past 85K miles and has been across the entire US in timed runs with no further problem. So I would recommend getting it repaired and then accumulating some miles, if at all possible when it is hot out as that seems to be when they fail (not a fact, just an impression I have gotten). As I remember, there has been one person who had a second failure of the inner seal and that resulted in an entire new final drive under warranty.

Best of luck with it but the second seal should be the 'charm'.

Brian

Hey Brian, have you thought about marketing that diaper? You could probably sell several hundred here for folks than just want to be ready for the drive shaft mayhem expected. Probably get $45 at least for them. I'll go in with you if I can get the rights to the diaper DVD.

[B.D.F.]

I am applying for the patent right now- the real tough question is which way do I want to go, roll and wind right or roll and wind left. Opps, perhaps I have given too much away already.

Brian

Hey Brian, have you thought about marketing that diaper? You could probably sell several hundred here for folks than just want to be ready for the drive shaft mayhem expected. Probably get $45 at least for them. I'll go in with you if I can get the rights to the diaper DVD.