Anybody try the new Sena 20S kit yet?

[maxtog]

Thanks for the info. I think the SMH10 is great for 1 on 1 communications but sucks for group. I want a system where 5 of us can talk to one another without pushing buttons. Just VOX speak and all hear. Does the 20S do that?

The SHM10 can set up a 4-way multi-intercom.  The 20S can set up an 8-way.  Setting up the call is a bit complex, and (at least on the SHM10) will disconnect any phone connection during the intercom (since it needs all the radios to do this).

Once it is set, you do not have to press any buttons during the multi-intercom.  The trick is that you can only call one person.  To have more join, THEY have to call one of the people already talking.  For example, I (A) call B.  C can then call either A or B and will join the conversation.  D can then call A, B, or C, and then join the conversation.  But if A and B are talking, neither can call C or D without hanging up on each other.

Although now that I re-read the manual again, the 4-way is confusing enough to say "WTF?" and perhaps I didn't describe it quite right (or maybe the wording in the manual is misleading).  For me this is all theory, since I only have two units....

[Conniesaki]

Thanks for the info. I think the SMH10 is great for 1 on 1 communications but sucks for group. I want a system where 5 of us can talk to one another without pushing buttons. Just VOX speak and all hear. Does the 20S do that?

I don't think so, not yet anyway. (unless it can be done via a smartphone) This is what I asked the Sena guy at AIMExpo, and he said they're working on it.

The SHM10 can set up a 4-way multi-intercom.  The 20S can set up an 8-way.  Setting up the call is a bit complex, and (at least on the SHM10) will disconnect any phone connection during the intercom (since it needs all the radios to do this).

Once it is set, you do not have to press any buttons during the multi-intercom.  The trick is that you can only call one person.  To have more join, THEY have to call one of the people already talking.  For example, I (A) call B.  C can then call either A or B and will join the conversation.  D can then call A, B, or C, and then join the conversation.  But if A and B are talking, neither can call C or D without hanging up on each other.

Although now that I re-read the manual again, the 4-way is confusing enough to say "WTF?" and perhaps I didn't describe it quite right (or maybe the wording in the manual is misleading).  For me this is all theory, since I only have two units....

I think you've got this all correct.

[maxtog]

I think you've got this all correct.

It's a miracle!

[Ron Dawg]

Ok guys, a dumb question cause I'm just starting to investigate this technology. Can these units simultaneously service/accept input from a smart phone, a GPS, and serve as an intercom to a passenger? That's what I want. Android (Galaxy) phone calls, GPS (Garmin 2595 blue tooth) voice input, and talk to my passenger at the same time.
Very interesting discussion to observe. Thanks.
Ron

[Ron Dawg]

One more thing (never just one question ) Are these noise canceling or do you still have to wear ear plugs? Thanks!

[Conniesaki]

Ok guys, a dumb question cause I'm just starting to investigate this technology. Can these units simultaneously service/accept input from a smart phone, a GPS, and serve as an intercom to a passenger? That's what I want. Android (Galaxy) phone calls, GPS (Garmin 2595 blue tooth) voice input, and talk to my passenger at the same time.
Very interesting discussion to observe. Thanks.
Ron

Yes, the Sena SMH10R (the one I have, so know about) is sort of the 'operator' and handles all those items you mentioned as inputs. From http://www.sena.com/product/intercoms/smh10r/

"With the SMH10R, you can call handsfree on your Bluetooth mobile phone, listen to stereo music or voice instructions of GPS navigations by Bluetooth wirelessly, and have intercom conversations in full duplex with other riders."

[Conniesaki]

One more thing (never just one question ) Are these noise canceling or do you still have to wear ear plugs? Thanks!

The Sena SMH10R comes with very shallow speakers about the size of a US quarter that can be stuck or velco'd into your helmet adjacent to your ear. So, no ear buds, unless you make some modifications. And of course they're not noise canceling either.

I'm starting to feel like a Sena dealer, but unfortunately I'm not. Paid regular price 

[maxtog]

Can these units simultaneously service/accept input from a smart phone, a GPS, and serve as an intercom to a passenger?

yes

[maxtog]

One more thing (never just one question ) Are these noise canceling or do you still have to wear ear plugs? Thanks!

No ambient noise cancelling.  It uses filters to remove noise from the intercom and such, but not as something to replace earplugs.  What is interesting is that the speakers are so nice and loud that it doesn't sound like one is wearing earplugs.   Especially fascinating/strange when you turn on sidetone (leaking of spoken sound back into your ears).

[maxtog]

So, no ear buds, unless you make some modifications.

In the stock box they do not support earphones.  However, they sell an optional clip (the part on the helmet) that does have a 1/8" stereo jack so you can use earphones with or without the speakers.

[Ron Dawg]

Thanks guys.That's helpful.

[Rhino]

The SHM10 can set up a 4-way multi-intercom.  The 20S can set up an 8-way.  Setting up the call is a bit complex, and (at least on the SHM10) will disconnect any phone connection during the intercom (since it needs all the radios to do this).

Once it is set, you do not have to press any buttons during the multi-intercom.  The trick is that you can only call one person.  To have more join, THEY have to call one of the people already talking.  For example, I (A) call B.  C can then call either A or B and will join the conversation.  D can then call A, B, or C, and then join the conversation.  But if A and B are talking, neither can call C or D without hanging up on each other.

Although now that I re-read the manual again, the 4-way is confusing enough to say "WTF?" and perhaps I didn't describe it quite right (or maybe the wording in the manual is misleading).  For me this is all theory, since I only have two units....

Got that right! Seems like the market is ready for a better interface. I'm thinking a unit that pairs with either an Android or iPhone with apps that make setting it up and pairing with other units easy. Seems like the capability is there but with only couple of buttons and no display its very complicated to set it up. An app on a smart phone could fix that.

[VirginiaJim]

Darn good idea.  Let Sena know about that..  I'd be first in line for the app....after you, of course.

[Conniesaki]

Got that right! Seems like the market is ready for a better interface. I'm thinking a unit that pairs with either an Android or iPhone with apps that make setting it up and pairing with other units easy. Seems like the capability is there but with only couple of buttons and no display its very complicated to set it up. An app on a smart phone could fix that.

The S20 does that. From http://www.sena.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Leaflet_Sena_20S.pdf

"Smartphone app. A Smartphone app for iPhone and Android lets you set up and control the 20S quickly and easily."

Does not look like the SMH10R does, though.

[Rhino]

The S20 does that. From http://www.sena.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Leaflet_Sena_20S.pdf

"Smartphone app. A Smartphone app for iPhone and Android lets you set up and control the 20S quickly and easily."

Does not look like the SMH10R does, though.

Wow! That does look good. But it doesn't say specifically what is meant by: "Connect with up to 8 riders at a distance up to 1.2 miles (2 km), and manage intercom participants by group." Does that mean open mike using VOX? I say "gonna stop at the gas station" and everyone hears me? Or do I have to tap a button once for not more than .4 seconds ( cuz .5 seconds means something entirely different) and it cycles to the next person...

[Conniesaki]

Wow! That does look good. But it doesn't say specifically what is meant by: "Connect with up to 8 riders at a distance up to 1.2 miles (2 km), and manage intercom participants by group." Does that mean open mike using VOX? I say "gonna stop at the gas station" and everyone hears me? Or do I have to tap a button once for not more than .4 seconds ( cuz .5 seconds means something entirely different) and it cycles to the next person...

The bad news: No, they told me at AIMExpo that you can't just hit a button and talk to everybody your intercom is paired with. Not yet anyway. That's what they told me they're working on.

The good news: If everybody in your intercom paired group connects (joins in) so that everybody is on the line and remains on the line, then yes when you talk everybody will hear it. I believe staying on like that uses the battery faster, though.

More bad news: To get everybody 'on the line', aka, connected so that everybody hears anybody who speaks, first 2 people have to connect, then a 3rd has to connect to the first two peoples' conversation, then another joins, then another, etc. Only way I know of to tell people to join is to hand signal them, i.e. point to your intercom, or some such, and hope they see you, which is silly. An all-call function is much needed, IMO.

[Rhino]

The bad news: No, they told me at AIMExpo that you can't just hit a button and talk to everybody your intercom is paired with. Not yet anyway. That's what they told me they're working on.

The good news: If everybody in your intercom paired group connects (joins in) so that everybody is on the line and remains on the line, then yes when you talk everybody will hear it. I believe staying on like that uses the battery faster, though.

More bad news: To get everybody 'on the line', aka, connected so that everybody hears anybody who speaks, first 2 people have to connect, then a 3rd has to connect to the first two peoples' conversation, then another joins, then another, etc. Only way I know of to tell people to join is to hand signal them, i.e. point to your intercom, or some such, and hope they see you, which is silly. An all-call function is much needed, IMO.

Exactly what I was worried about. They still haven't figured out group communication. I don't understand why this is so hard. Must be some serious limitations in Bluetooth.

[maxtog]

Exactly what I was worried about. They still haven't figured out group communication. I don't understand why this is so hard. Must be some serious limitations in Bluetooth.

Yes, it is mostly bluetooth limitations.  To my knowledge, bluetooth has no "broadcast" like capability, it is a point-to-point technology.  Essentially, the Sena can actively talk to only a few devices at a time, so the larger "group" communications work as a type of "mesh network" with each Sena acting as a repeater.  I am not sure there is any other way to do this with bluetooth.  To have instant communications with larger groups, that would move into some other radio technology, like FRS, but like I said before, you get all kinds of new issues with non-duplex communication, interference, crosstalk, etc.  Plus I don't think FRS is licensed to allow digital, so it would be analog.  Of course, many of us are used to one-at-a-time-to-many-PPT type radio communications, so it might not be a big deal.  But once you get a taste of full-duplex digital, it is hard to go back.

[Rhino]

Yes, it is mostly bluetooth limitations.  To my knowledge, bluetooth has no "broadcast" like capability, it is a point-to-point technology.  Essentially, the Sena can actively talk to only a few devices at a time, so the larger "group" communications work as a type of "mesh network" with each Sena acting as a repeater.  I am not sure there is any other way to do this with bluetooth.  To have instant communications with larger groups, that would move into some other radio technology, like FRS, but like I said before, you get all kinds of new issues with non-duplex communication, interference, crosstalk, etc.  Plus I don't think FRS is licensed to allow digital, so it would be analog.  Of course, many of us are used to one-at-a-time-to-many-PPT type radio communications, so it might not be a big deal.  But once you get a taste of full-duplex digital, it is hard to go back.

Make sense. Maybe whats needed is auto FRS channel hopping technology. Or burst digital on an FRS channel. Since digital can be so compressed now, multiple micro-second bursts over the period of a second would still leave the channel open to analog. Essentially cell phone technology.

[mikeb2411]

All I can say is "SENA"! They connect to the computer and have worked rock solid! I have the SMH10 and will get the 20S (or whatever is newest) when the time comes to replace...or just get it to upgrade the comms! I'm super happy with my comms!