Author Topic: Shops will not switch out tires?  (Read 14400 times)

Offline gPink

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2012, 06:31:32 PM »
Well said.

Offline fmwhit

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2012, 06:32:27 PM »
« on: April 05, 2012, 04:53:34 pm »

I am 60 miles North of NY City and just paid $25.00 for them to mount and balance a new PR3. 

While having the bike inspected(NY State Inspection) the inspector mentioned the cupping and wear on the existing front tire(PR2).  I was well aware of the condition of the tire before I brought it in, but knew that it was good enough to pass NY State Inspection.  The inspector told me that although it passed, he suggested that I should consider replacing it in the near future.  When I told him that I was going to order one in the next few days and install it myself he told me that they would try to match an internet price if given the opportunity and would do the tire install for $25.00 if I brought him just the wheel. 

They matched an online price that I brought in ($136.00) but with the taxes and disposal fee the entire thing with installation, balancing, and installing a 90 degree adapter that I supplied came to $172.00.  I heard the tech ask the service manager about the torque spec on the TPMS adapter and to tell you the honest truth I was quite impressed that he would even think to ask.  The service manager looked it up on line for the spec.  I walked away with a good feeling that I got a quality job.  By the way, they did it while I waited.

Fred

Offline Elfmaze

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2012, 06:41:39 PM »
Motorcycle sales are down in this recession and the margin on most brands is rather low

Surprisingly not as much as you would think.  Esp the Harley dealer around here said they are doing fine in sales volume.  And not the small bikes either.  full dress tour'ers and trikes going out the door. The "recession"  is just a line of crap they feed us meaning the growth is slowing down.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2012, 04:24:07 AM »
I bring my wheels to a tire dealer down the street from me and he charges $20 per wheel, balanced.
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Offline Awaz

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2012, 08:12:53 AM »
Just like anyone, I look for a good deal and buy stuff online all the time. However, sometimes I am willing to pay more for good service.
When it comes to my Connie, I usually buy locally. My dealer went out of business last year and the next nearest dealer is horrible!
Lucky for me the service manager and his boyhood friend who also turned wrenches there opened up their own shop doing service and repairs. They are the most talented bike techs I ever met and they are honest guys. I just had a ton of maintenance work done on my c14 which included tires. I wanted Conti road attack II's but his distributor did not carry them. He said he could get them but they might be pricier than other brands since he had to get them elsewhere. I explained that I was willing to pay for some mark-up because the bottom line was that if he only relied on labor to pay the lease, bills, insurance, lights, heat, etc that he and his partner would likely not be in business very long.
Not only would I hate to see them close but I also have a stake in making sure he stays open. I don't want to have to find another mechanic that I can trust.
Owning and running a motorcycle business can be tough. Think about it. At least here in New England, you basically have about 8 months maximum business. When it is cold nobody comes in the door. Motorcycle sales are down in this recession and the margin on most brands is rather low. No dealer can make it by just selling bikes and some gear so they need to make money in service. People think every dollar paid between wholesale and retail is profit! It is not. You need to pay the following........
Lease or mortgage on building
Taxes on the building if owned
Heat
Electricity
Building maintenance and upkeep
Payroll for staff, mechanics, parts counter, sales, etc
Payroll taxes. (Did you know every dollar the employee pays in federal tax is matched and paid to the IRS by the employer too?)
Workers compensation insurance
Medical insurance for staff
Vacation pay
Sick pay
An accountant or book keeper
Signage
Company taxes on profit to state and feds
Advertising
Telephone and internet
And I am sure there are some big things I am missing

So the bottom line is that if a dealer or shop only charges you labor and does not mark up parts they will probably close shop. I am willing to pay more in these instances so long as I am not getting royally shafted. For me those tires were $325 online. I was fine paying $385 because I knew he would take care properly mounting and balancing them for me too.

I definitely want to support a local business. Thing is that the local honda shop did not carry the Shinko brand at all. They did have PR3 and the Angels, but I wanted to try out the cheaper alternative because I do not drive aggressively at all. That shop is very inconsistent depending on who you talk. Last year, they did my little KZ250 tires - tires were mine, but tubes were theirs. And threw in a can of lube for free to lube the speedo and other stuff. But then few years before that, they won't touch a Honday CB750 I had to sync the carbs. Just two months back, they serviced my newphew's Honda Sabre 1100. But he lost his key and wanted to know if they can get the code from the ingnition box and make a key, they won't touch it even with a 10 foot pole. I think I am definitely done giving business to that place.
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Offline ridingfar

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2012, 09:21:33 AM »
People think every dollar paid between wholesale and retail is profit! It is not. You need to pay the following........
Lease or mortgage on building
Taxes on the building if owned
Heat
Electricity
Building maintenance and upkeep
Payroll for staff, mechanics, parts counter, sales, etc
Payroll taxes. (Did you know every dollar the employee pays in federal tax is matched and paid to the IRS by the employer too?)
Workers compensation insurance
Medical insurance for staff
Vacation pay
Sick pay
An accountant or book keeper
Signage
Company taxes on profit to state and feds
Advertising
Telephone and internet
And I am sure there are some big things I am missing

So the bottom line is that if a dealer or shop only charges you labor and does not mark up parts they will probably close shop. I am willing to pay more in these instances so long as I am not getting royally shafted. For me those tires were $325 online. I was fine paying $385 because I knew he would take care properly mounting and balancing them for me too.

Internet based business typically have these expenses also... I'm just saying - there aint no silver bullet.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2012, 03:06:32 PM »
Internet based business typically have these expenses also... I'm just saying - there aint no silver bullet.

That is true.  However, Internet sales places usually have much lower expenses, since they have less staff and overhead.   If you buy locally, you are still paying for shipping (built into the cost), but usually have to pay sales tax (because 99% of people illegally neglect to report Internet sales on their state income tax) which is a turn-off for many.  So Internet based sales can easily undercut most any brick-and-mortar (local) store.

But, again, lots of people (myself included) recognize the higher expense of local dealers and the better service, lower risk, and quicker access (if they stock it) and are willing to pay more for those factors.  My issue is with dealers and stores that think they can charge 25, 33, or even 50% more than what I can buy online with a few clicks from a reputable on-line store and have at my door in a few days.

I tell you what really burns my butt is when I go into someplace like Best Buy and all they have is a "non-working demo" of something, or it is otherwise non-functional (missing parts, no batteries, no remote, no memory card), or they don't carry the model I want, or they are just out of stock.   And then they complain about online retailers ruining them!  The reason I want to go to a local store is to see, feel, try some kind of equipment, make real comparisons, and buy it right then.  Or sometimes even maybe talking to someone that might know something about the products (I know, that is a laugh).  If I can't do any of that (which seems to be the case more often than not, nowadays), then why bother going to a local store?
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Offline lt1

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2012, 03:15:51 PM »
The reason there are non-working demo's are missing parts is theft and vandalism.
Eyes, Brain, Hands.  Repeat.

Offline texrider

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2012, 03:20:53 PM »
When I change m/c tires, I pay attention to the inside of the tire carcass to see where there's any overlap of belts and rubber. That's where your tire is going to be the heaviest, regardless of any painted dot.
I align that area directly opposite of the valve stem, and remove all the previous weights from the rim. The results are almost always little or no weight required to balance.  8)
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2012, 03:54:35 PM »
The reason there are non-working demo's are missing parts is theft and vandalism.

That is part of it.  But another reason is that there was never a real working thing to begin with.  For example- I go to a store to look at phones.  In most cases, they are all fake!  Exactly what can I learn from a "fake" phone?  The outer dimensions?

Headphones- all sealed in that damn clamshell stuff.  Great, so I can't tell how they fit, what they weigh, what they sound like, how they feel.  It is no different than looking at a picture on a website!

Tablet- glued to a display rack and stuck in some demo mode that doesn't allow any real app to run or any decent interaction.  Can't even hold it to see how it feels or what it weighs.  Can't test speakers.  Pretty much useless.

Sorry for the ranting, this just touches a nerve for me ;)
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Offline pcaddict66

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2012, 07:56:24 PM »
Internet based business typically have these expenses also... I'm just saying - there aint no silver bullet.

Yes they do but they also sell to the entire country, not just some local area on a map. They offer lower prices because they sell volume. It is pretty hard to compete when a website sells online at large volume levels and gets to sell it to you tax free.

Google Best Buy News for another example of the web versus brick and mortar retail. There is a good chance Best Buy stores will be gone in a few years. Yes, some of their issues are mismanagement but most of it is increased internet competition. So many people walk in there to see a product then go home and Google the item for the best available price.

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2012, 08:34:37 PM »
Yes they do but they also sell to the entire country, not just some local area on a map. They offer lower prices because they sell volume. It is pretty hard to compete when a website sells online at large volume levels and gets to sell it to you tax free.

Google Best Buy News for another example of the web versus brick and mortar retail. There is a good chance Best Buy stores will be gone in a few years. Yes, some of their issues are mismanagement but most of it is increased internet competition. So many people walk in there to see a product then go home and Google the item for the best available price.
They will all be gone in two years. When you order directly from the warehouse, you save the expense of the retail building and everything in it. The only way Best Buy can be competitive is to do enough volume that the  mfg. delivers direct. Right now Best Buy is getting too many items via UPS and freight, just like you get them when you order on the internet.
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Offline lt1

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2012, 08:51:01 PM »
That is part of it.  But another reason is that there was never a real working thing to begin with.  For example- I go to a store to look at phones.  In most cases, they are all fake!  Exactly what can I learn from a "fake" phone?  The outer dimensions?

Headphones- all sealed in that damn clamshell stuff.  Great, so I can't tell how they fit, what they weigh, what they sound like, how they feel.  It is no different than looking at a picture on a website!

Tablet- glued to a display rack and stuck in some demo mode that doesn't allow any real app to run or any decent interaction.  Can't even hold it to see how it feels or what it weighs.  Can't test speakers.  Pretty much useless.

Sorry for the ranting, this just touches a nerve for me ;)

NP, what you're missing is that it is still caused by theft and vandalism.  Real, functioning products get destroyed and stolen, so they are replaced with dummy products and/or receive extra protection.
Eyes, Brain, Hands.  Repeat.

Offline Awaz

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2012, 04:28:03 PM »
2 jack stands with your axle spanned across them (with the wheel on) will work too.

Makes a nice and cheap balancing stand.
Tried this method. Does not show that the wheel is heavy on one side or the other. Not sure if that is good enough or if I should take find someone to do that.
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Offline BlkBird

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2012, 07:24:25 PM »
Tried this method. Does not show that the wheel is heavy on one side or the other. Not sure if that is good enough or if I should take find someone to do that.

You can make your own balancer fairly easy but they really aren't that unreasonable online.  I purchased a Cycle Hill tire machine when I purchaesd my Connie.. I mount and balance my own tires, couldn't stand the thought of paying more for the tires then paying for the dealer to mount and balance.  If you go to Cycle Hill's site (cheap brother of the NO-MAR) they have the balancing axles and cones.  I made a stand out of wood and roller skate wheels that works fabulously....

Offline jjsC6

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2012, 07:32:41 PM »
Yes they do but they also sell to the entire country, not just some local area on a map. They offer lower prices because they sell volume. It is pretty hard to compete when a website sells online at large volume levels and gets to sell it to you tax free.

Google Best Buy News for another example of the web versus brick and mortar retail. There is a good chance Best Buy stores will be gone in a few years. Yes, some of their issues are mismanagement but most of it is increased internet competition. So many people walk in there to see a product then go home and Google the item for the best available price.

Best buy is a perfect example of a store that has not figured out how to sell their products against internet discounters.  I went in there about a month ago to look at stereo receivers.  Interestingly enough, I discovered that my local Fry's and Best Buy have the same price on receivers as the on-lines discounters.  I wanted to see how certain features worked on the unit I was looking at so I didn't make the same mistake I made on my last receiver purchase.

I went down to my local store and found the model I wanted to see. I found out that none of their receivers was plugged in, and where they had the floor models on display, they didn't even have a place to plug them in.  He carried it across the store to plug it into a column outlet, but still no way to hook it up to speakers.  I asked a couple of basic questions and found he didn't know a damn thing about it.  I would gladly have paid a 5-10% premium plus tax, but I was so pissed off I ordered it on-line.

My Honda dealer gives me a courtesy discount on most accessories that gets me very close to, if not right at the price I can buy on-line.  I still mail order things that they don't carry except clothes.  I buy my riding clothes from them even if they have to order them because they will gladly allow me to try them on before I buy, which saves me the hassles of returning if I buy on-line and they don't fit.
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Offline manowarwi

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2012, 07:41:17 PM »
I know others have stated this as well, but I have had good luck calling local shops and asking them to match or at least come close to online prices.  They still get their labor rates so they are usually happy.  I find its best bet is to call them and be polite but firm on the tire price itself.  Don't send a snippy email or you'll get ignored or a snippy response.  I also don't expect shops to match sketchy sites, but a local shop around here will match motorcycle-superstore.com's sale prices which is usually pretty darn good. 

I like to shop local too, but some of the shops around here drive me crazy.  There is one that charges well above MSRP on most gear, doesn't have the correct sizes, asks you to pay up front and if it doesn't fit, they still expect you to cover a restocking fee.  Sorry, in that case, I'll shop online. 
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2012, 11:01:58 PM »
Tried this method. Does not show that the wheel is heavy on one side or the other. Not sure if that is good enough or if I should take find someone to do that.

Your actual bearings can be well greased and cause a little too much friction. You want mostly dry bearings with very light lubricant for balancing. Never done it myself but have heard you can buy a set of normal bearings, remove the seal and wipe off all the grease. With the right bearings such as the set from marcparns.com I just let the wheel go, give it no spin and the heavy side will go to the bottom and the wheel will rock back and forth for awhile.

Offline Boomer

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2012, 08:49:39 AM »
I take mine to a local Tyre place. http://www.universal-tyres.co.uk
They do car, van, truck and motorcycle tyres.
I get a front PR3 fitted to a loose rim with a new Schraeder core for £130.
Rear costs £160.
I take my car there too.

What many of the dealers miss out on is building a relationship.
When you come in for the tyres they need to chat to you while doing your tyres.
If you become a regular customer they can offer you a coffee while you wait.
If the dealer treated you well when doing your tyres, you would probably go there for your servicing, parts, and one day for a new bike.

It's their loss, not yours.
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Offline texrider

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Re: Shops will not switch out tires?
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2012, 05:27:45 PM »
I take mine to a local Tyre place. http://www.universal-tyres.co.uk
They do car, van, truck and motorcycle tyres.
I get a front PR3 fitted to a loose rim with a new Schraeder core for £130.
Rear costs £160.
I take my car there too.

What many of the dealers miss out on is building a relationship.
When you come in for the tyres they need to chat to you while doing your tyres.
If you become a regular customer they can offer you a coffee while you wait.
If the dealer treated you well when doing your tyres, you would probably go there for your servicing, parts, and one day for a new bike.

It's their loss, not yours.

That comes to $465 in dollars, if you pull the wheels and take them there, and buy their tires.... Seems a bit high.
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