Author Topic: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??  (Read 20160 times)

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2011, 04:07:46 AM »
Here we go again...
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2011, 06:11:47 AM »
Wow, I wouldn't have thought it possible but you have charmed me Clyde. Nice job.

 ;D  and, of course:

Anyway, I still think impeding the free movement of the balancing balls is not a good idea, cannot improve their performance and very well could lessen their performance. And this topic does not interest me enough to continue so one more witty repartee and you win. But let's meet back here (the forum) in two to three weeks; I'll comment on some topic or other and you respond with something on the caustic side and we can continue....  :D

Brian

I like you, too, Brian.  Even if you have a know-it-all attitude that is often unjustified.  A rope plug in a tire no more inhibits the flow of the dynabeads than a twig inhibits the flow of a river.  Of course, there may be a small delay or diversion, but the twig will not dam the river.  If you had 40 or 50 rope plugs in a tire, dynabeads would probably not work well.

Again, you seem not to grasp the concept of what the beads do and do not do within the tire.   Not that it is a big deal.  Perhaps trying to correct a misconception on the internet is a loser's game.  Perhaps even a sensitive loser's game. 

Your turn.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2011, 06:15:16 AM »
How many thermometers would I have to dump into the tire to get enough mercury to balance the tire?

Does this need a new thread?

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2011, 06:23:45 AM »
Hopefully not...
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Offline lt1

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2011, 10:46:25 AM »
Quote from: Son of Pappy
When the wheel is in a static/constant motion I feel safe that they will find their home.  What happens to those beads during mild to hard braking?  What happens to them on irregular roads?  Add in plugs and everything changes, which of course should include the TPS.  Machine testing in a controlled environment will not replicate what we get on the street.  Finding that light spot and fixing a permanent weight removes the variables you have with free floating beads,  I wonder, do MX riders use these?
Under mild braking, the centripetal force of the rotating wheel is stronger than the inertial force of the braking.  Hopefully I'm using the terms correctly.  At some point, the braking forces can/will overcome the spinning forces and the beads will start rolling within the tire.  The heavier the braking, the higher the speed where the beads will "destabilize". 

As a side not, the beads will take somewhat longer to stabilize under heavy acceleration, based on the same principles.

As I understand it, the beads require some irregularity in the road surface to function properly.  They also require a minimal speed (about 20-35mph IIRC) to stabilize.  If the road is so irregular that the minimal speed cannot be maintained, the beads will be ineffective.

The difference between tire plugs and TPS, as far as the function of the beads is concerned, is the location of the "obstruction".  The TPS is on the wheel, while the beads are "thrown" outward, and do not come in contact with the TPS in normal operation.  The rope plug is in the area where the beads  flow, but the beads will flow around the plug without restriction.

The beads are not recommended by the manufacturer for racing.  I have no information on whether any MX's are using them.

More information is available on the mfg's website:  http://www.innovativebalancing.comsLike all products, they fit some users and applications better than others.  For a sport rider that goes through tires in 3k miles or a racer, they make little or no sense at all.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2011, 10:56:30 AM »
I'm entertaining this response for now....I may open it back up later.
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Offline Rawman

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2011, 11:34:40 AM »
<rant on>There are so many forces acting upon a tire (and more-so a motorcycle tire) that Dyna-Beads are snake oil.  Even the manufacturer cannot prove these balance a tire actually mounted on a moving tire.  I can invent many ways to balance a statically mounted tire and make all sorts of claims.  I am not saying they cannot balance a tire once you get up to speed and hold that speed steady going in a straight line with no bumps or imperfections in the road, but what good are they in the real world driving situations?  I especially want a tire that is balanced if I am making an emergency stop, swerving to avoid something in the road, or just having fun accelerating as hard as the bike will let me.  I don't want my tire to become unbalanced again just because I slow down, make a turn or hit a bump.

My opinion is that you cannot have anything that will act the same regardless of the physics involved, it is impossible (can you tell I am 100% against dyna beads?)<rant off>

Under mild braking, the centripetal force of the rotating wheel is stronger than the inertial force of the braking.  Hopefully I'm using the terms correctly.  At some point, the braking forces can/will overcome the spinning forces and the beads will start rolling within the tire.  The heavier the braking, the higher the speed where the beads will "destabilize". 

As a side not, the beads will take somewhat longer to stabilize under heavy acceleration, based on the same principles.

As I understand it, the beads require some irregularity in the road surface to function properly.  They also require a minimal speed (about 20-35mph IIRC) to stabilize.  If the road is so irregular that the minimal speed cannot be maintained, the beads will be ineffective.

The difference between tire plugs and TPS, as far as the function of the beads is concerned, is the location of the "obstruction".  The TPS is on the wheel, while the beads are "thrown" outward, and do not come in contact with the TPS in normal operation.  The rope plug is in the area where the beads  flow, but the beads will flow around the plug without restriction.

The beads are not recommended by the manufacturer for racing.  I have no information on whether any MX's are using them.

More information is available on the mfg's website:  http://www.innovativebalancing.comsLike all products, they fit some users and applications better than others.  For a sport rider that goes through tires in 3k miles or a racer, they make little or no sense at all.
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Offline stevewfl

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2011, 11:38:51 AM »
<rant on>There are so many forces acting upon a tire (and more-so a motorcycle tire) that Dyna-Beads are snake oil.  Even the manufacturer cannot prove these balance a tire actually mounted on a moving tire.  I can invent many ways to balance a statically mounted tire and make all sorts of claims.  I am not saying they cannot balance a tire once you get up to speed and hold that speed steady going in a straight line with no bumps or imperfections in the road, but what good are they in the real world driving situations?  I especially want a tire that is balanced if I am making an emergency stop, swerving to avoid something in the road, or just having fun accelerating as hard as the bike will let me.  I don't want my tire to become unbalanced again just because I slow down, make a turn or hit a bump.

My opinion is that you cannot have anything that will act the same regardless of the physics involved, it is impossible (can you tell I am 100% against dyna beads?)<rant off>


^^^^that   and actually that is putting it nicely
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Offline lt1

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2011, 10:33:31 AM »
[patience] They work just fine in real world driving conditions, thank you.  Even emergency braking and swerving.  [/patience]

[comment] Apparently my comment re: smooth roads was missed, ignored, or rejected. [/comment]

[redundancy] No one is forcing you to buy or use them if you don't want to. [/redundancy]
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Son of Pappy

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2011, 10:42:07 AM »
[-snip-

[redundancy] No one is forcing you to buy or use them if you don't want to. [/redundancy]
Nope, but it is a fair exchange of ideas :)  An informed buyer is better served in MOST cases by the riding community, not the folks looking to make a buck off the riders.  No ill will towards those of you who use them, heck, if you were using them in car tires I'd still ride down the road with ya ;D

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2011, 11:01:02 AM »
Wouldn't something like Dynabeads that have tiny particles risk clogging up the TPMS sensors?

Offline RedBombardier

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2011, 12:55:58 PM »
I wouldn't run the stupid things in my lawnmower but I shore do like reading the replies about 'em.  Tars are for air, crankcases are for oil, gas tanks are for gas (premium of course), etc.  BTW, I shore would like to meet someone who has been inside a moving tar to see um operate!  :rotflmao:  :deadhorse:
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Offline lt1

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2011, 12:59:16 PM »
I really ought to get a commission.  :)

I have run DB's in the C14 for about 20k miles.  I saw no evidence that the beads in any way affected the TPMS in terms of accuracy, wear, abrasion, clogging, or anything else.  If there is a risk, it seems to be incredibly small.

As far as the discussion goes, for the most part it devolves to "They work fine." and "It's snake oil.  They can't work fine."  No skin off my nose either way.  It may or may not be relevant to the discussion, but I static-balance my wheels (rotors on, tires off) with lead weights, then use the DB's to balance the tire.  Many new tires are in almost perfect balance anyway.   It a sense, that nullifies one of the selling points of the beads, which is that "you won't have ugly weights spoiling the looks of your beautiful (custom) rims".

Late edit:  The person who has been inside the moving tire probably could also tell us about his experience inside a crankcase, and in a gas tank, etc.
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Offline Y0ssarian

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2011, 01:03:07 PM »
   Instead of using beads, I've been experimenting with a mixture of gases with different-sized molecules. My theory is that, in the highly centrifugal environment inside a tire the larger molecules will spin toward the outside, and will dynamically balance the tire. I'm not really done experimenting yet, but I've found that about 78% nitrogen, about 21% oxygen, and trace amounts of about 14 other gases works the best. YMMV
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2011, 01:10:05 PM »
You're really nuts.   :nuts: ;)
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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2011, 01:37:59 PM »
I'm betting Ambrosian burl wood chips would be effective, fixes almost as much stuff as Sea Foam and KIPASS ;)

Offline Conrad

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2011, 01:42:21 PM »
I'm betting Ambrosian burl wood chips would be effective, fixes almost as much stuff as Sea Foam and KIPASS ;)

I'd bet that the wood chips smell better too.
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Offline stevewfl

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2011, 01:51:22 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^I suspect all above solutions above work much better than "dyna-beads"
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Offline RedBombardier

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2011, 02:29:12 PM »
I really ought to get a commission.  :)
Late edit:  The person who has been inside the moving tire probably could also tell us about his experience inside a crankcase, and in a gas tank, etc.

Later edit... I was not the one who was describing how they look/react inside a moving tire.  Uh, let me think... Who was that?  Hmmmm.  Let me think.........
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Offline ZG

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Re: Dyna-beads, anybody tried it ??
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2011, 02:34:42 PM »
I'm betting Ambrosian burl wood chips would be effective, fixes almost as much stuff as Sea Foam and KIPASS ;)

 :thumbs:   ;)