DELETED BY POSTER...sorry guys!

 

Knew it was only a matter of time before an updated edition surfaced...

Yay ... 

Guys, I would caution you about posting links that host copyrighted material.

The ruling from on high is that what happens between forum members stays with forum members.....

Now for something completely different.... I really like the PM function of this forum.

Jim

Only takes a minute for the download to complete.  Information is useless if it's never shared!

Unbelievable.  Information that is *copyrighted* is not legal to *share* that way.  Believe it or not, some of us are offended by posts flaunting such illegal activities.  Really, this whole thread should be deleted.

Information in the form of commercial books, music, video, games,software, etc, is a lot MORE useless when it stops being created because the writers, musicians, engineers, designers, publishers, copy setters, artists, etc, don't get paid.

I find that the service manual has *value* and *purchased* a copy from my dealership.  It would only be ethical to download a PDF of it if you already owned the manual in print form (which I did, and which I do).  It is annoying that Kawasaki doesn't not supply a PDF when you buy the printed manual.  But I am guessing they don't because- believe it or not- people will "share" it, because, you know, "information wants to be free" and such crap.  It is also why legitimate purchasers have to suffer with highly irritating and incompatible DRM (Digital Restrictions Management).

Here's a link to another discussion on the subject...

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2466.0

This thread will not be deleted unless someone higher than me deems it necessary....which I doubt.

The other forum should know better....

Jim

Here's a link to another discussion on the subject...

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2466.0

This thread will not be deleted unless someone higher than me deems it necessary....which I doubt.

The other forum should know better....

Jim

I should have known better myself so thanks for the flogging.  My intention was never to offend the law or cause a problem.  I'd rather help those that needed an electronic version of the manual.  The link was available and I mearly passed on something I saw in another place on this great WWW.  Actually, I bought a 2010 print copy last year from my dealer and simply thought having an electronic version was useful.  I never considered the legal implications and for that I openly apologize to the group.  Point taken on the copywrite issue.  Personally, I think KAWI could cut their costs by just making the PDF available to new owners and stop production of the print copies period.  Owners could print the pages they wanted, page protect them and everyone is happy.  Then, maybe then, KAWI could funnel that savings into putting cruise on these things?   ...my 2 cents, YMMV.

In the end though, I agree with JIM.  The "PM function" on this forum works very well and in many cases, it's works in tandam with the "search function" in getting the information you're looking for...you just need to know who to ask.   

Definitely agree, buy the book, its the right thing to do.  However, side point, its not legal to even download a copy of the PDF if you own the manual, unless you have express permission from the publisher.  The second purchase I made after buying my bike was the manual, its all greasy, wish I could scotch guard it :-)

Unbelievable.  Information that is *copyrighted* is not legal to *share* that way.  Believe it or not, some of us are offended by posts flaunting such illegal activities.  Really, this whole thread should be deleted.

Information in the form of commercial books, music, video, games,software, etc, is a lot MORE useless when it stops being created because the writers, musicians, engineers, designers, publishers, copy setters, artists, etc, don't get paid.

I find that the service manual has *value* and *purchased* a copy from my dealership.  It would only be ethical to download a PDF of it if you already owned the manual in print form (which I did, and which I do).  It is annoying that Kawasaki doesn't not supply a PDF when you buy the printed manual.  But I am guessing they don't because- believe it or not- people will "share" it, because, you know, "information wants to be free" and such crap.  It is also why legitimate purchasers have to suffer with highly irritating and incompatible DRM (Digital Restrictions Management).

Here's a link to another discussion on the subject...

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2466.0

This thread will not be deleted unless someone higher than me deems it necessary....which I doubt.

The other forum should know better....

Jim

Is that because they're all law abiding citizens or that they have more lawyers?

Definitely agree, buy the book, its the right thing to do.  However, side point, its not legal to even download a copy of the PDF if you own the manual, unless you have express permission from the publisher.  The second purchase I made after buying my bike was the manual, its all greasy, wish I could scotch guard it :-)

And I agree that it is not legal to download an electronic version even if you own the paper version.  But it is not immoral or even "wrong" in such a case when they don't provide nor sell an electronic version.  It does not hinder sales or rob them of potential revenue.

Don't forget that it is against the law to speed and pass on a double yellow.

And don't cross the street outside of the posted cross walks.

Blah... Blah.. Blah...

If someone is going to do something morally unethical, a Kawasaki forum is not going to change their mind.

I sure wish more people would choose abortion...

Like I said, not trying to be holier than thou, just call it what it is.  Yes you are right it is illegal to do all those things (traffic violations)...I still do them, but with eyes wide open, and don't call it ok.

Don't forget that it is against the law to speed and pass on a double yellow.

And don't cross the street outside of the posted cross walks.

Blah... Blah.. Blah...

If someone is going to do something morally unethical, a Kawasaki forum is not going to change their mind.

I sure wish more people would choose abortion...

Unbelievable.  Information that is *copyrighted* is not legal to *share* that way.  Believe it or not, some of us are offended by posts flaunting such illegal activities.  Really, this whole thread should be deleted.

Information in the form of commercial books, music, video, games,software, etc, is a lot MORE useless when it stops being created because the writers, musicians, engineers, designers, publishers, copy setters, artists, etc, don't get paid.

I find that the service manual has *value* and *purchased* a copy from my dealership.  It would only be ethical to download a PDF of it if you already owned the manual in print form (which I did, and which I do).  It is annoying that Kawasaki doesn't not supply a PDF when you buy the printed manual.  But I am guessing they don't because- believe it or not- people will "share" it, because, you know, "information wants to be free" and such crap.  It is also why legitimate purchasers have to suffer with highly irritating and incompatible DRM (Digital Restrictions Management).

And I agree that it is not legal to download an electronic version even if you own the paper version.  But it is not immoral or even "wrong" in such a case when they don't provide nor sell an electronic version.  It does not hinder sales or rob them of potential revenue.

You can't have it both ways. You downloaded the PDF and admitted that it was not legal. Then you say that it is not immoral or even 'wrong' to download the PDF becasue an electronic version is not provided, IF you bought the paper version?

Oh, I see now...   

You can't have it both ways. You downloaded the PDF and admitted that it was not legal. Then you say that it is not immoral or even 'wrong' to download the PDF becasue an electronic version is not provided, IF you bought the paper version?

Oh, I see now...   

Actually, from your posts in the elephant thread, you do see.  Anyone with their eyes even halfway open understands that legal and moral are not necessarily equal, or even equivalent.  The same is true with illegal and immoral.  In an open/free society, we try to pass laws that approximate our morals, even amidst the shouts of the foolish saying that "you can't legislate morality", but the truth is that laws and morality will never be a perfect match.

I think all of us would do well to operate as best we can within the confines of the law and morals and ethics.  I do not buy into the concept that since both speeding and murder are illegal, if we do one we have no right to object to the other. 

Whatever our personal morals, we have an obligation as forum members not to put the forum in violation of the law.  Rick deserves at least that much respect.

Amen.

Actually, from your posts in the elephant thread, you do see.  Anyone with their eyes even halfway open understands that legal and moral are not necessarily equal, or even equivalent.  The same is true with illegal and immoral.  In an open/free society, we try to pass laws that approximate our morals, even amidst the shouts of the foolish saying that "you can't legislate morality", but the truth is that laws and morality will never be a perfect match.

I think all of us would do well to operate as best we can within the confines of the law and morals and ethics.  I do not buy into the concept that since both speeding and murder are illegal, if we do one we have no right to object to the other. 

Whatever our personal morals, we have an obligation as forum members not to put the forum in violation of the law.  Rick deserves at least that much respect.

Well said.

Elephant thread? What elephant thread? Sounds interesting and possibly entertaining- always a good combination.

As far as the ruckus about the PDF, this is actually an interesting thread. Good point Clyde about the severity of the crime (or immoral behavior) not being a blanket escape for any further misbehavior. Our legal system is actually pretty good at picking a chain of crimes apart and dealing with each in reasonable response to its severity.... most of the time.

On the other side of the coin, I do not agree with those who would have this thread deleted. It is perfectly reasonable to remove any references to copyrighted material but talking about illegal activities itself in NOT illegal. Another slippery slope to be sure but we all have the freedom as well as the right to talk about whatever we want, including that which in itself is illegal.

I would also question the actually legality of being in possession of the PDF manual if that individual also owns a paper copy. To the letter of the law it is almost certainly illegal but I believe it may be within the spirit of the law to have both. Copyright law is there to protect intellectual property from being stolen and in doing so interfering with the rightful owner's ability to regulate and distribute that property. If a person already has a legitimate copy of a work, possessing another, identical copy of that work in another form would be a hard thing to oppose IMO. It would be like owning a book and photocopying a page- technically illegal but it does not violate the spirit of the law and a person would never be prosecuted for such an act. Again, it is a slippery slope to be sure, and I am not trying to justify what anyone might do or not do, but I believe this is a case where the letter of the law may be carried a bit too far. To the letter of the law removing a blade of grass from a neighbor's lawn and taking it home is larceny but I think we would all agree that no damage would be done to the neighbor and any attempt to address such an act would be foolish at best.

At any rate, this is an old topic that comes up every now and then. And it generally goes just like this thread although often not as respectfully or articulately.

Brian

Actually, from your posts in the elephant thread, you do see.  Anyone with their eyes even halfway open understands that legal and moral are not necessarily equal, or even equivalent.  The same is true with illegal and immoral.  In an open/free society, we try to pass laws that approximate our morals, even amidst the shouts of the foolish saying that "you can't legislate morality", but the truth is that laws and morality will never be a perfect match.

I think all of us would do well to operate as best we can within the confines of the law and morals and ethics.  I do not buy into the concept that since both speeding and murder are illegal, if we do one we have no right to object to the other. 

Whatever our personal morals, we have an obligation as forum members not to put the forum in violation of the law.  Rick deserves at least that much respect.

snip...

Elephant thread? What elephant thread? Sounds interesting and possibly entertaining- always a good combination.Brian

Both...

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4234.0

At any rate, this is an old topic that comes up every now and then. And it generally goes just like this thread although often not as respectfully or articulately.

Brian

I like those words.