Time for brake fluid flush- what is the best brake fluid?

[Conrad]

Don't tell Jim that I already have a MP brake bleeder and the first time that I used it on the clutch it worked perfectly, not so the second time.   

[smg id=659]

[VirginiaJim]

  back at ya...

[Conrad]

back at ya...

 

I'll be the first to admit that I screwed something up the second time that I bled the clutch. I just don't know exactly what that something was.

[VirginiaJim]

I know the feeling..

[Racer Boy]

If it pained you that much would it not have been better just to let it go?

No, I just wanted to give you another example of what is wrong with today's society!

[gPink]

No, I just wanted to give you another example of what is wrong with today's society!

Either you failed to present your example or I failed to grasp your subtlety.

[B.D.F.]

The short answer: it is a check- valve that you put in-line with a brake caliber, slave cylinder or clutch cylinder and it allows for direct bleeding of the system without having to open / close the brake bleeder repeatedly.

Longer but more correct answer: one of the many devices, when used on the hydraulics of a C-14, that tortures the owner / rider for days, weeks and often months after by not completely venting all the air out of the system. Speed bleeders are also in this catagory. The C-14 hydraulics are an absolute cast- iron.... well, you know, to bleed and all of these simple, inexpensive 'helpful tools' get in the way to a proper tool that works well: a powered vacuum bleeder tool such as a MityVac MV6830 Vacuum Brake Bleeder, which will pull hard enough and steadily enough to fully bleed the hydraulics on a C-14. Not cheap initially but after several attempts at using other, lesser devices that do not work fully (squishy brakes, soft clutch that changes engagement point with a change in engine temp., etc.), WELL worth the money IMO. I also saw substantially the same thing available at Harbor Freight for something like $30 or such.

I have bled a lot of hydraulic systems over the years but I have never seen anything like the systems on the C-14. I <believe> the basic problem is the port hole (Easy Boys and Girls!) in the reservoir is too small but I have not been able to bring myself to open them up, especially now that I have a power bleeder.

OK, off soapbox, now back to the conversation about the $5 tools that will work just fine.... almost. :-)

Brian

Please educate me on this mentioned Motion pro bleeder.

[Racer Boy]

I bled my brakes using the old fashioned way - pump the lever, hold the lever, open the bleeder, let some fluid out, close the bleeder. Repeat until no more air comes out and the fluid was fresh. It worked fine!

[Conrad]

I bled my brakes using the old fashioned way - pump the lever, hold the lever, open the bleeder, let some fluid out, close the bleeder. Repeat until no more air comes out and the fluid was fresh. It worked fine!

How about the clutch? And without some help, or really long arms, you'll have some difficulty with the two rear caliper bleed points.

[stevewfl]

4 pages of bleeding brakes. I rebuilt calipers on my old bikes in less time.

"how to change battery in FOB" thread needed next 

[Racer Boy]

How about the clutch? And without some help, or really long arms, you'll have some difficulty with the two rear caliper bleed points.

On the rear caliper, I just pushed the brake pedal down with my hand.

I haven't bled the clutch yet. After reading the tales of problems with bleeding it, now I'm nervous about doing that! 

[VirginiaJim]

Clutch bleeding virgin!

[Rhino]

4 pages of bleeding brakes. I rebuilt calipers on my old bikes in less time.

"how to change battery in FOB" thread needed next 

I'm counting on you to start that thread 

[B.D.F.]

Bah! We're jess' teasin' ya'. How bad can it really be?  Besides, how often do you really need the clutch anyway?

 

The problem is that conventional bleeding leaves a bit of air in the system. Not enough to prevent anything from working but it leaves the brakes, especially the front (who can feel the rear brake on a C-14 anyway?) feeling a bit soft right at the point the pads engage. When all the air is out of the system (i.e., power bled), the brakes are rock- hard (Easy Boys!).

The clutch is a bit different; as the clutch does not really have an engagement point but instead a range, that range will change with engine temperature because the air in the slave cylinder expands and contracts with engine temp. So the point where the clutch engages changes when the bike is warm, hot or cold. It is not that the clutch does not work or work correctly but the place where it starts to engage changes and that causes the launches from a stop to be awkward and sort of 'ungraceful'.

So really, the difference is not that great but it is probably the last 15% or 20% of crisp, hydraulic working that suffers. A lot of people do not really notice the difference until the bike is properly bled and the fluid is clear of all air.... then they get to like it and it ruins them for the next time the bike is bled using the ole' "pump and crack" method of bleeding.

Brian

On the rear caliper, I just pushed the brake pedal down with my hand.

I haven't bled the clutch yet. After reading the tales of problems with bleeding it, now I'm nervous about doing that! 

[elp_jc]

I bled my brakes using the old fashioned way - pump the lever, hold the lever, open the bleeder, let some fluid out, close the bleeder. Repeat until no more air comes out and the fluid was fresh.

That's exactly what I've deen doing for decades as well. With vacuum bleeding, you can suck air with the reservoir halfway full, so you have to be very careful doing it that way. The system holds so little fluid once you empty the reservoir (and fill it with fresh fluid) that it only takes a few strokes to fully bleed it. And done right, there's absolutely no chance of any air (I personally don't trust those check-valve devices). I've always done the bleeding by myself, even on bikes with the reservoirs at opposite sides of bleeding valves. The Connie has the clutch slave cylinder on the reservoir side, and rear reservoir is right above lever, so it'll be easy. The trick for bullet-proof bleeding the old-fashion way, is to not open the bleeding valve until you closed the master cylinder hole by pressurizing the line a little. And close it right before you get to the handlebar. Oh, and obviously watch fluid level . Do that, and there's simply no way to screw it up. Hope this helps.

[lather]

I changed my hydraulic fluids toady after reading this thread. It had been 22 months since the last change. Went pretty smoothly with my Motion Pro bleeder but extra work was involved as I had to remove the ZSteves heat shield as it was blocking access to the clutch slave bleeder valve. I also had some black powdery residue in the bottom of the clutch res and a little in the brake res. I drained the bowls and wiped it out. After that I couldn't get "traction" from the brake lever, the lever would not firm up and no fluid would move. I didn't think wiping the bowl dry with a paper towel would let air in but apparently I was wrong. I noticed tiny bubbles coming from the bowl orifice as I pumped, so I engaged in a pumping frenzy and more and more bubbles came out and after about ten minutes of this the lever firmed up rock solid.
Here's my bleeding rig:

[B.D.F.]

There are so many comments I have all at once, they are crashing into each other in my brain. I simply cannot select my favorite so I will not respond. Other than to say I hope you 'rig' heals up and ten minutes is a lot of 'pumping frenzy', at least from what I have heard.

But as far as the hydraulics on a C-14 goes, you will have more time to firm up your lever at your leisure if you just buy a power bleeder in the first place.

Brian

<snip>
....so I engaged in a pumping frenzy and more and more bubbles came out and after about ten minutes of this the lever firmed up rock solid.
Here's my bleeding rig:

[Deziner]

There are so many comments I have all at once, they are crashing into each other in my brain. I simply cannot select my favorite so I will not respond. Other than to say I hope you 'rig' heals up and ten minutes is a lot of 'pumping frenzy', at least from what I have heard.

But as far as the hydraulics on a C-14 goes, you will have more time to firm up your lever at your leisure if you just buy a power bleeder in the first place.

Brian

So, Brian, please educate me. Since I have yet to change my brake fluid, am I wrong in assuming that one can simply gravity bleed the calipers like you can on the American made relics I had?

[lather]

There are so many comments I have all at once, they are crashing into each other in my brain. I simply cannot select my favorite so I will not respond. Other than to say I hope you 'rig' heals up and ten minutes is a lot of 'pumping frenzy', at least from what I have heard.

But as far as the hydraulics on a C-14 goes, you will have more time to firm up your lever at your leisure if you just buy a power bleeder in the first place.

Brian

I was going to insert an "Easy Boys" a la BDF but decided it's better to just let the imaginations run wild... And I do have a couple of hand vacs but don't like either one. Fumbling with some awkward apparatus at those special moments is such a buzz kill.

[martin_14]

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=12050
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9720
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4458
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=15143

this is why I drop by once a week instead of once a day since a couple of months.