Kipass video - lots of info

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otvC_AlqxUI

 what says the experts? Steve

[VirginiaJim]

Interesting..most riders don't have the luxury of taking off the dash or dissembling the switch housing.  The gray connector disconnection is well known to us in the family.  Brian has created a harness to make this a bit easier to accomplish.  http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6976.0

There may be a couple of issues with this mechanism...dirt and inadequate internals.  I've had it happen to me twice...relatively early on.  Beating on it and swearing worked both times.  After that I've tried to keep it clean by blowing it out through the top of the switch every now and then when I remember to do it.   So far it hasn't reoccurred.  I do carry a small hammer but I haven't had to use it.  I think that the threat is enough.

We've had one owner (whose name cannot be mentioned) who had it so bad he sold the bike and bought an FJR  .  I believe that he did have it looked at by a dealer who did something to it...I think before he got rid of it.  This seems like the issue the guy in the video had.  It's either very intermittent or when it goes it really goes.

This issue is not as endemic as it appears on forums, otherwise we'd be inundated with reports on this issue..  I have the extended warranty and if it happened to me again, I'd just take it in and get it taken care of through the dealer.  And that's really what we should do.  Trying to fix it ourselves and not letting Kwackers know about it helps no one.

[B.D.F.]

No but it is alive and well. Just this week I have had two people contact me with the dreaded stuck activation switch: one on a 2014, the other a personal friend who has an '08. Both were unhappy of course but the guy with the '08 seemed incredulous that I could not do anything to fix his bike from 1,000 miles away. (!!)

Kawasaki has addressed the issue by using a stronger spring under the pesky switch but that merely reduces the instances of occurrence, it did not and does not eliminate the problem. The true fix would be to couple the upper part of the ignition that is depressed with the top of the actual activation switch; then when the switch stuck, 1) the owner would know what happened immediately and could 2) use whatever force was needed (and it is never a lot) to return the switch to the up or open position. The folks in Japan missed that day in school where they would have been taught fail- safe design 101. 

Brian

<snip>

This issue is not as endemic as it appears on forums, otherwise we'd be inundated with reports on this issue..  I have the extended warranty and if it happened to me again, I'd just take it in and get it taken care of through the dealer.  And that's really what we should do.  Trying to fix it ourselves and not letting Kwackers know about it helps no one.

[VirginiaJim]

I wonder if the solenoid itself is the culprit as in being weak..

[Deziner]

I'm new to this issue so please bear with me. If unplugging then reconnecting the grey plug cures it and tapping on the housing cures it, wouldn't that indicate that it is a connection problem?

Also, which wires in the connector actually affect the solenoid? Once that has been determined, couldn't one simply install a normally closed momentary switch and then "open/close" the circuit to allow the key to turn in the event of a malfunction?

Just thinking out loud.....

[B.D.F.]

Not in any way that I know of. I have never heard of or seen a solenoid failure of any kind. In fact, the activation switch is the only part of KiPass I have ever heard of that failed on any C-14. The overall system is rock solid, it is just that pesky $0.04 switch piece- of- well, you know, that sticks.

This issue is quite well known, as are the work- arounds and 'fixes' (including the infamous K-rock).

Brian

I wonder if the solenoid itself is the culprit as in being weak..

[just gone]

I'm certainly no expert, but isn't this guy in the video working on the wrong side of the assembly? He's working on the solenoid, but isn't the
problem sticking momentary switch (aka the activation switch which activates the solenoid) on the other side (left side)? ...or am I wrong again? 

I think his tapping is just causing a slight bounce on the (stuck) closed contacts of the activation switch on the other side while he's staring at the solenoid. No? 

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

 OK, so in watching the video, some diagnostic questions come to mind.

 1) if disconnecting / reconnecting the grey connector will cause the solenoid to activate, and if it works every time, it would indicate to me there's a signal (voltage)  problem that occurs when the key is depressed and the solenoid fails to respond.

 2) where does the solenoid get it's signal from when the key is depressed to start the sequence?  Does depressing the key trigger a momentary switch to power the solenoid?

 3) I am apparently missing how the spring in the solenoid has been diagnosed as the issue. It appears that the momentary activation of the solenoid is to pull the solenoid piston down, then it's released and in the locked position  (piston up) when the solenoid is not activated. since it takes the solenoid to activate to allow the key to be turned to start, how is a stronger spring helping that? I only see the spring being helpful in returning the solenoid to the de-activated / locked position. What am I missing here?

  4) I'm thinking that he's mis-identifying the source of the problem. I base this on the fact that when functioning properly, there's a limited amount of time to turn the key, or the solenoid releases the piston. Yet when depressing the switch there's enough time to whack the ignition and it's only after said whacking that the solenoid activates. I'm thinking there's a momentary switch elsewhere that is actually the problem.

 5) I seem to remember pics that indicated the stuck spring was on the left side of the ignition, not the right side as the solenoid is. This would be the momentary switch I'm thinking of.

 Comments? Steve

[VirginiaJim]

My only contribution is using a hammer.  Brian will have to chime in on those questions.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

fartymarty and I cross posted. His post says what my post said with way to many words    Steve

[tomp]

The video is on the interweb, so it has to be true, right?  I thought everything on the web had to true...  Maybe most stuff... Occasionally...Seldomly...  Glad we have forums like this one to actually help with accurate info.  My system has never acted up, knock on wood, but I don't think I would remove all the plastics to investigate, just use the search function here, should do for me...

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

The video is on the interweb, so it has to be true, right?  I thought everything on the web had to true...

  Yes, he's misdiagnosed the issue BUT the video shows us graphically how the locking solenoid functions, and the wheels start turning on work-arounds. Since I've not had any reason to take a kipass apart, any education is good education, as long as I can still think for myself. Steve

 

[stevewfl]

Any reference to KiPass, including text or video, that excludes its mad Pow-Ah is questionable

[VirginiaJim]

It was only a matter of time...

[B.D.F.]

Steve speaks the truth. I cannot remember where I heard it but two things stick in my mind:

1: "KiPass is the finest remote authentication system ever put on the Concours 1400!"

And the well- known from an ancient Chinese philosopher:

2: "Man who not like KiPass must have sat on chop- stick and done brain damage."
-Confucious

We never have good KiPass threads anymore, especially since 'that guy' is no longer around to bat the ball back. 

Brian

Any reference to KiPass, including text or video, that excludes its mad Pow-Ah is questionable

[B.D.F.]

Yeah, and everybody was waiting for it too....

:-)

Brian

It was only a matter of time...

[elp_jc]

Just this week I have had two people contact me with the dreaded stuck activation switch: one on a 2014

That's a bit disturbing. And as noted by many, an indication the stronger spring on newer bikes wasn't the solution. How many miles on that '14 bike? Did it look like it was stored under the elements, with rain/dust possibly messing up the switch somewhere? The other disappointment is whatever the culprit is, could have been eliminated by a properly sealed unit. The fact dirt can accumulate there is not encouraging. Hope somebody gets to the real culprit of this.

[VirginiaJim]

In the general scheme of things that would be below the last thing on my list to worry about on this bike.

[maxtog]

That's a bit disturbing.

I wouldn't let it bother you.  In the grand scheme, it is still a small percentage of C14's out there.  For every one person that had the problem, you can probably find 100 that never has and never will.  Especially true if the bike is garage-kept.

If you check out other bike brands' forums, you are likely to see far more horrifying/prevalent/expensive/dangerous  issues.

[B.D.F.]

I do not know about the 2014 C-14, I did not see it nor do I have any knowledge about the bike. I only know about the cases of it happening because people contact me about it, sometimes during or after the fact. But the number of miles, the way the bike is stored, exposure (Easy Boys!) to the elements have little- to- nothing to do with the switch sticking. It is nothing beyond a statistical probability what bikes it has (and will) happen to. Again, it is a poor design and a cheap switch (mostly the design though) that is the root of this problem and not water / dirt getting into anything.

And yep, it is a bit disturbing; so much so that I developed a work- around for it and actually sell them. The work- around is not really intended to be used outright as much as it creates a situation where the rider of a C-14 can simply forget about that switch possibly sticking for all time. I ride a lot, and long distances under all conditions and times of the day / night, sometimes in time limited events, and I simply wanted to eliminate the possibility of ever having to think about KiPass stranding me. The sticking switch does not happen often  but I just wanted to make sure it would never happen to me. :-)  Sort of like a De-defibrillator hanging on the wall in a public venue: odds are none of us will ever need it but the thought of it being there is comforting....

Brian

That's a bit disturbing. And as noted by many, an indication the stronger spring on newer bikes wasn't the solution. How many miles on that '14 bike? Did it look like it was stored under the elements, with rain/dust possibly messing up the switch somewhere? The other disappointment is whatever the culprit is, could have been eliminated by a properly sealed unit. The fact dirt can accumulate there is not encouraging. Hope somebody gets to the real culprit of this.