Not completely true. On the 2nd gen, the ECO mode is retained, and that is a completely separate map. Of course, the USER can't just change either map to something else without going through the whole flash procedure (and I am not sure Guhl will even offer the option to flash a custom map or even change the ECO map). For those not wanting to make other major performance changes (full exhaust, tb, intakes, etc), there should be little need for additional maps, however.
Yes true. You can store two maps on the pcV and use a simple I/O toggle switch to change between the two.
That is not the default of the Guhl flash, but you CAN request the flies to be opened almost immediately if you choose to and he will flash it that way. HOWEVER, there is a slight advantage of keeping the flies opening a little delayed on low throttle to keep a little more tameness. Again, everyone will have their own opinion, but it is interesting that Guhl's opinion is to keep a little flies at the start... and I do trust he knows what he is doing and choosing the best option for the most applications/people.
The flies actually can't be opened "almost immediately", as the secondary butterfly actuator will hit the throttle linkage. You could probably open them up around 1800+ RPM or so, but they're fully open by 3000 RPM or earlier in his flashes anyway. There wouldn't be much benefit in opening them any earlier than they already are. I suspect some of it is snake oil, and what owners don't know won't hurt them;).
I was told that re moving the flies is only good your you guys that never drive the thing over 4,000 rpm. I guess the flies go open after that anyway. So those of use that are pretty spirited riders will not notice much difference if they are out or not.
I was told that re moving the flies is only good your you guys that never drive the thing over 4,000 rpm. I guess the flies go open after that anyway. So those of use that are pretty spirited riders will not notice much difference if they are out or not.
The flies actually can't be opened "almost immediately", as the secondary butterfly actuator will hit the throttle linkage. You could probably open them up around 1800+ RPM or so, but they're fully open by 3000 RPM or earlier in his flashes anyway. There wouldn't be much benefit in opening them any earlier than they already are. I suspect some of it is snake oil, and what owners don't know won't hurt them;).
The main reason tuners are not opening the flies 100% immediately is because they can't without it affecting the throttle mechanism. This has nothing to do with the butterfly plates themselves by the way....just the secondary butterfly actuator. So, you have to think of it from a mechanical point of view, and not flow, to know why the ECU tuners are not opening the flies earlier than they are.
All I can say is the change was HUGE to me. And far more bang for the buck compared to most any other performance mod I can think of.Yes, and you seem to be in the majority. All I can say
So... things that make you say "hmmm".
I was told that re moving the flies is only good your you guys that never drive the thing over 4,000 rpm. I guess the flies go open after that anyway. So those of use that are pretty spirited riders will not notice much difference if they are out or not.I agree with you 100%!!
I was told that re moving the flies is only good your you guys that never drive the thing over 4,000 rpm. I guess the flies go open after that anyway. So those of use that are pretty spirited riders will not notice much difference if they are out or not.Getting there is half the battle. Some of us used our bikes for more than touring or commuting, we get to the track, ride her hard, or take her to some mountain twisties where mid range is everything. Pulling the flies is hands down the best gain per money and effort From what I gather it seems those with the throttle response issues are running idle at 1150-1200, bump it up to 1250-1300, start the breathing sooner and the issue disappears. Each rider has their own rate of roll on so some may feel more and others less. It makes a difference.
From my understanding the factory flies are also not just a linear open...
In summary, I would say the changes are quite impressive between 2K and 6K.... which is where I spend 99% of my time. I suspect whoever "told" you that has not driven a non-flashed and then flashed C14.
Yeah, they don't open them fully all the time because they cannot (due to physical limitations) but 'sell it' as it is better if they are not opened all the way too soon. Funny and a little sad all at the same time.
Well, their opening is linear, but their flow characteristics are not. If you look at the performance curve for a butterfly valve, you will not see a straight line.
Actually, there are some C14 owners that have installed re-flashed ECU's that reported feeling no performance difference at all.
I really don't see how that is possible. I can only speak to a Guhl reflash, and only on a 2nd Gen. But the difference is black and white; it is not a shade of grey.
OK, that explains it.
I really don't see how that is possible. I can only speak to a Guhl reflash, and only on a 2nd Gen. But the difference is black and white; it is not a shade of grey.
There was another company doing a reflash that folks had considerable trouble with. Dynotronics or something like that. I don't know if the complaints were also with Guhl's work.
I didn't really follow that whole Dynotronics thing too much....are they still doing C14 ECU's? The stuff I have read is all with the Guhl ECU reflash. I really should stay out of these discussions, because everybody has their own opinions, and if you try to suggest otherwise, all you get is "Well, that is impossible"...lol.Don't know if they're still in business. As far as the discussions go, everything is opinion unless there is science to back it up. If we can't kick people around for their opinion what good is the internet?
This isn't new however....it's as old as the internet...or time itself...lol.