Guhl's flash on Lee's brand new C14

[stevewfl]

Like Rhino said- it won't affect that much.  Keep in mind 6th is overdrive, it is a very tall gear that is not designed to have any power, it is for level cruising at high speed (generally over 65 MPH).  To get the C14 into the power band in 6th puts you at a very illegal speed.

The Ghul reflash primarily addresses responsiveness, much of which I don't think will really show in a dyno printout.  The secondary butterflies are what causes the lack of responsiveness and the flash essentially "disables" those butterflies by opening them fully, almost immediately. It DOES increase torque a little across the board (and hp), but that is not the main goal.

the torque increase from 3000 to 6000 rpm is all that.  thats the rpm range mine lives in unless I'm on it, this mod is attractive to me and I've never cared enough about the "performance" of my bike to do anything to it but this may be it

[ZG]

Would the reflash help with that "dead" feeling you get when you wind up fifth gear and switch to sixth? Feels like the bike even slows down a little.

6th gear is for gas mileage, I can hit faster top speeds in 5th than I can in 6th, as Max mentioned it's just an overdrive gear for slabbing...

[gPink]

Apologies, I wasn't watching this thread

Lee is a local drag racer, does research for Brock, owns a ZX14 forum, owns a drag ZX14, but most importantly is a very good friend.  He also owns a motorcycle business and when i'm to busy or lazy to fool with my 5 bikes his shop does the work. Recently hi front fork job on my ZX9,  etc

He mentioned he'll have some drag strip time slips posted on the reflashed stock C14 soon

edit:  he is smokinZX14 on his forum:   http://zx1441r.com

How stock?

[maxtog]

the torque increase from 3000 to 6000 rpm is all that.  thats the rpm range mine lives in unless I'm on it, this mod is attractive to me and I've never cared enough about the "performance" of my bike to do anything to it but this may be it

Please note you quoted a version of the post I had edited immediately afterwards, which currently doesn't say "a little".   

At 3K it is pretty impressive, jumping from about 66ft-lb to 78ft-lb.  That is 18% more,  something that will certainly be noticed by everyone.  At the higher RPMs, like 6K, a 1ft-lb improvement at 88 isn't going to be noticeable by anyone (that is only a 1.1% improvement).  At 5K it isn't much whoop either (+2 = 2.3%)

And yes indeed, 3K to 6K is an ideal range to add more torque.   Would like to have seen 2.5K

[gPink]

Please note you quoted a version of the post I had edited immediately afterwards, which currently doesn't say "a little".   

At 3K it is pretty impressive, jumping from about 66ft-lb to 78ft-lb.  That is 18% more,  something that will certainly be noticed by everyone.  At the higher RPMs, like 6K, a 1ft-lb improvement at 88 isn't going to be noticeable by anyone (that is only a 1.1% improvement).  At 5K it isn't much whoop either (+2 = 2.3%)

And yes indeed, 3K to 6K is an ideal range to add more torque.   Would like to have seen 2.5K

Change the exhaust, Max. 

[maxtog]

How stock?

Are there degrees of just "stock"?  Stock is stock

Now, if he said "stock engine" then that leaves the door completely open for air in and air out...  but he didn't say that!

Of course, the wording is kinda wrong, anyway:  "time slips posted on the reflashed stock C14 soon"   Technically that is an oxymoron, it can't be stock if it is reflashed.  The better wording would be "time slips posted on the reflashed but otherwise stock C14 soon"

[maxtog]

Change the exhaust, Max. 

You have to change the exhaust system to see the 2.5K RPM part of the graph on the dyno??

[gPink]

Thought you were looking for increases at 2.5   Went back and saw the graph was missing that info.

As to degrees of stockness is that an absolute or a relative measure?

[maxtog]

As to degrees of stockness is that an absolute or a relative measure?

Depends on how philosophical we want to get!

[pistole]

- are we a muffler or an exhaust ? That is the question.

.

[stevewfl]

another page or two and I'll invite Lee over to this party

[Cuda]

You can ask Guhl to open the flys sooner than his normal flash , and they will , I had one of his local dealers  who (drag races a ZX14 with his flash)  send mine in ,  he told him about my cat less ZX 14 header and to open the flys sooner and I don't rev the motor as much anymore , short shift because of the torque increase, torque is a nice seat in the pants feeling 

[maxtog]

You can ask Guhl to open the flys sooner than his normal flash , and they will , I had one of his local dealers  who (drag races a ZX14 with his flash)  send mine in ,  he told him about my cat less ZX 14 header and to open the flys sooner and I don't rev the motor as much anymore , short shift because of the torque increase, torque is a nice seat in the pants feeling 

My understanding when I looked at the raw data was that Guhl's "normal" C14 reflash already opens the secondaries almost immediately.  Are you saying that he still left delay in there?

[Rhino]

My bike is mostly stock except a K&N air filter and Leo Vince slip on. Don Guhl told me they will re-flash whenever I want for just the cost of shipping. So if I ever went to go to a cat-less full exhaust as an example, he will give me a new map for that for just the cost of shipping. One of these days I intend to get a full AreaP system with O2 sensor, ride to Pennsylvania and have Guhl custom dynotune my bike.

[wally_games]

I wouldn't think so since the increase in torque is at the low end. But "wind up fifth gear" would have to going quite a bit faster than the 155 mph speed limiter in the ECU on the gen 2 bikes. So  the reflash can remove that limiter and allow you to actually "wind up fifth gear" on gen 2 bikes.

Ok, so my Connie has never quite redlined fifth gear, but it's been close. And, that's definitely not within the street legal speed limit.

I would really like to have more pull at the lower RPM range since that's where I live 99% of the time. Guhl is probably on my winter project list.

[katata1100]

I have my '11 Guhl'ed. The eco mode is untouched so I have flipped between  eco and "guhl" mode
The difference is real obvious. Stock, it wasn't,eco and regular mode felt similar, now there is a huge difference. When I run eco, the bike is a dog until 3k rpm, compared to eco, feels like it has a bad head gasket.
The only time i use eco is when I am in 6th gear on long trips. Using the eco now feels like punishment.
As for cost, to me it is way worth it, the bike is so much more enjoyable to ride.
As for 6th gear riding, yeah, i notice a big diff there too. If you are humming along in 6th, 2k rpms and want to pass someone, you don't necessarily have to downshift, just twist that throttle a little, you'll get moving. Before, you twist the throttle and it was like nothing happened.
A lot of people have gotten guhl'ed and I have yet to hear one person say they were not anything less than very, very satisfied with it.

[Cuda]

I used the eco mode a lot before the flash,
 forgotaboutitnow

[maxtog]

If you are humming along in 6th, 2k rpms and want to pass someone, you don't necessarily have to downshift, just twist that throttle a little, you'll get moving. Before, you twist the throttle and it was like nothing happened.

I personally wouldn't recommend riding at 2K in 6th gear (or really any gear, except 1st, but especially the higher gears), because 2K is just too low and any amount of throttle in 6th with this type of engine.... there is lugging.  Some will disagree with me, but I tend to think the minimum RPM for 6th gear is 3K.  If I have to accelerate more than just a tiny amount while below 3.5K in 6th, I will drop to 5th.  If I plan to cruise below 5K, I will just stay in 5th.

[Cold Streak]

I wonder if a group buy is a possibility?  Sounds like a number of people are interested.  I sure am.  That torque increase on the low end of the rev range looks very nice. 

[katata1100]

I personally wouldn't recommend riding at 2K in 6th gear (or really any gear, except 1st, but especially the higher gears), because 2K is just too low and any amount of throttle in 6th with this type of engine.... there is lugging.  Some will disagree with me, but I tend to think the minimum RPM for 6th gear is 3K.  If I have to accelerate more than just a tiny amount while below 3.5K in 6th, I will drop to 5th.  If I plan to cruise below 5K, I will just stay in 5th.

Not really, the bike really feels pretty strong, doesn't feel unhappy at all. It is really nice having a 1400cc bike feel like it has 1400cc (or 13xx cc whatever it has).
With the Guhl mod, you will do a lot less down shifting, trust me on that.