Two questions....[rear brake & gauges cover]

[Freddy]

Fair enough Mike.  As you may've have seen from the link above, 3 of us down here have/had the issue, all early build bikes.  There must be more out there.  Nev in that link had to replace his ABS unit 2 years ago for this reason and all is still good with it.  It'll be interesting to see a response from Kaw Aust.  I'll post an update when I have one. 

[tomp]

Just some thoughts, but is it possible there is some glazing going on with the rear?  Did you seat the pads to the rotor properly when new?  Thought about changing the rear pads out with new HH's or possibly more gen 2 pads?  I've had these things cause that wooden feel, that requires extra pressure to get stopping results. 

My 08 has new OEM pads and the rear works OK, but nothing like the whizzy brakes on my RT.  A slight pressure on the linked pedal will try to put you over the bars.  Some thing can actually be TOO good. 

[Freddy]

Thanks for the tip tomp - appreciated.  The rear brake went from normal to virtually rock-solid while parked for a week. 

[VirginiaJim]

My memory is a bit vague these days but I seem to recall someone with an early bike that had issues with the brake and it had to do with rear master cylinder.  I'm thinking, though, that it may have locked the brakes instead of the wooden feeling (easy boys).  But then again it could be the wooden feeling.

[Freddy]

Yes Jim, seized master cyl piston is also a possibility, but after early diagnosis was found not to be the cause, which would have also locked the brake on as you say.  Thanks.

[VirginiaJim]

From what I recall it wasn't seized, it was a valving or orifice issue.

[Freddy]

Ok Jim.  I got an AllBalls m/cyl kit for it a couple of days ago.  I'll strip the cyl and check just to be certain.   But as Nev here discovered (that I mentioned above) a replacement ABS unit fixed it 2 years ago.  He had taken his bike to the dealer and they diagnosed the ABS unit.  As a new one here is $2315 he got a used one.  Fortunately he still has the old.

[Conrad]

My memory is a bit vague these days but I seem to recall someone with an early bike that had issues with the brake and it had to do with rear master cylinder.  I'm thinking, though, that it may have locked the brakes instead of the wooden feeling (easy boys).  But then again it could be the wooden feeling.

What kinda wood might we be talking about here Jim?

[just gone]

What kinda wood might we be talking about here Jim?

I've noticed that whenever I have some wood    , my wife's brakes work really well and STOP     is the word of the moment...and the wood is gone. 
..so let's talk about the dash question..

Here is a link to the fiche diagram: http://www.ronayers.com/Meters-C422938.aspx

here is a link to how to get to it (for a different purpose): http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6597.msg78122#msg78122
The link above is for a Gen I model but it should be pretty close if not identical, just the first 9 photos should be helpful.

I've noticed a piece of debris or something that's under the plastic. ..... Drives me nuts looking at that thing.

A photo of what it is that is bugging about your dash would be interesting (to some of us  , anyway).

[Conrad]

I've noticed that whenever I have some wood    , my wife's brakes work really well and STOP     is the word of the moment...and the wood is gone. 
..so let's talk about the dash question..

So sad...   

[tomp]

I've noticed that whenever I have some wood    , my wife's brakes work really well and STOP     is the word of the moment...and the wood is gone. 

Just another reason I no longer have the wife.  Thanks for the bike info.  May come in handy some day.  tp

[Freddy]

Had a chat with Kaw Aust service guru who said they have had similar reports and upon investigation found that the ABS unit was partially contaminated with old brake fluid and grunge (technical term) ie the bikes had not had the periodic flushing/fluid replacement as per the service book.  As such, there was no manufacturing fault and therefore not a warranty issue.    I can't say I disagree.




SO BE WARNED - THE REAR BRAKE MAY WORK PERFECTLY ONE DAY BUT BE ROCK-SOLID ANOTHER TIME, especially if the bike's been parked for a coupla weeks.


I fitted the All Balls m/cyl kit.  There was some 'grunge' around the piston spiral but that was close to the secondary cup, not ahead of the primary.  And fluid flushing wouldn't remove it - I had to scrape it off.

[rcannon409]

With regards to flushing, how can a person be sure they get the fluid out of the abs pumps?  Or , is it even possible?

Its easy enough to cycle the rear, but the front?

[Freddy]

With regards to flushing, how can a person be sure they get the fluid out of the abs pumps?  Or , is it even possible?

Its easy enough to cycle the rear, but the front?

Why do you suggest the front is 'different'?

[VirginiaJim]

Good point, Freddy.  The rear wheel has the ABS as well as the front wheel.  The ABS unit, according to the manual, has 4 pipes.  I'm imagining and in and an out for both front and rear.  The 08/09s may have a more simplified version as we don't have traction control but I'm thinking that when a wheel is bled, the fluid has to go through the unit.  There's nothing special in the way of bleeding the brakes on the ABS equipped bikes....again talking 08/09.  I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn Express lately so I'm not sure that my explanation has any merit at all.

[elp_jc]

With regards to flushing, how can a person be sure they get the fluid out of the abs pumps? Its easy enough to cycle the rear, but the front?

BOTH circuits pass thru the ABS pump, since the brakes on the C14 are linked front to back, and back to front (unfortunately). Unless you let air into the system, a normal bleed job at each caliper would renew most of the fluid, so no worries (my 2003 BMW K1200RS had ELEVEN valves to bleed; THAT was a challenge ). Just don't wait 10 years to change it for the first time . Otherwise I'd advise you to cycle the ABS pump to drain the fluid better, but that requires a diagnostic tool/computer to do. That's why I always change fluids sooner rather than later. Brake fluid is dirt cheap, and takes 10 minutes to do a bleed job, so I usually do it every year on my bikes. If I lived in a humid climate, I'd do it yearly for sure, since brake fluid is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture, which can rust your expensive brake components if not renewed regularly. Hope this helps.

[VirginiaJim]

The 08/09s aren't linked.  In fact, it was a selling point.

[Conrad]

The 08/09s aren't linked.  In fact, it was a selling point.

Gen 1's rule!   

[MAN OF BLUES]

The 08/09s aren't linked.  In fact, it was a selling point.

That is correct, the front and rear circuits are both passive untill the unit decides to actuate the solenoids, which effect the transistion.
With that said, bleeding the front or rear, just as with any brake system, the fluid path will be cleansed and the fluid when finished will all be changed.
I don't have the new manual, but can say even the linked brakes are passive in this fluid path also, and when actuated under riding conditions those passageways are transistioned, but in static mode, bleed normally. So just flush a lot of fluid thru each, and you will be fine in the end.

[Freddy]

Now here's an interesting coincidence.  SiSF should my link above to my issue.

http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=56118.msg417731#new