Valve Adjustment

[thundermax]

Just bought a 2009c14 with 17.6k miles. Doubt a first valve adjustment has been done. Think it is recommended to do it at 15k miles. Please post and tell me how you handle recommended valve adjustments. One service writer said typically you do not need it so early. He said the tech would listen to the motor and depending upon what he heard, he would tell the writer it did or did not need an adjustment at that time.

Really interested in what all you c14 owners handle this service.

Also, while talking service, I will change air filter, oil and filter, rear tranny oil, check coolant. Anything else? Did not think front fork oil needed looking at.

When I get it on Wednesday, plan to take it to dealer for recall fix. Has not been done yet.

[VirginiaJim]

The answer is 'It depends'.  My advice would be to get it done as you know little of the bike's history.  A bike ridden 'harder' seems to create a bit more wear in the valve train than one that doesn't (based on anecdotal evidence and not scientific at all).  The fork oil should be done as well as it's a 2009.  Mine is an 08 and it definitely needs the fork oil changed as I can feel the difference here lately in the front action.  Plugs should be ok.  Bleed both the clutch and brake lines.

I would not depend on someone doing a listening test as to whether to do a valve adjust check.  If they don't want to do the valve work, take it somewhere else.  Quiet could mean they're too tight.  This bike has a tendency to tighten up, not loosen.

[McJunkie]

Listening to a motor will NOT tell you what the clearances are. Mine sounded fine. 15 out of 16 shims needed replacing. One of those was within specs, but was close enough that I changed it to bring it closer to the middle.

[elektradw]

Personally my experience with shimmed bucket valves would be leave them the f... alone. It is a gimmick for the dealerships to make money. If the valves were in spec when assembled, and unless you have a catastrophic occurrence, like run low on oil or over stress the engine, the likelihood of the valve shims needing switching or replacing are about zero. Some owners will exchange shims to the high side, some to the low side thinking they are doing something constructive. The only thing you are doing is either spending money for no reason at the dealership, or taking on a huge risk if you think you can do it yourself. One mistake, one miscalculation, read a clearance number wrong, engine too hot or too cold, go out of sequence.... the dangers are numerous. I would not even let a Kawasaki mechanic tackle this job. I have 37,000 miles on my '011 and would not even consider going near the valves. I keep hearing of owners finding valves "out of spec". What are you talking about? If the valve clearance is within the described clearances they are fine. Valve seat wear or valve stem stretch is rare unless you totally abuse your motorcycle every ride. I wouldn't even consider changing the spark plugs and they say to do that every 7500 miles. If you get good mileage, easy startups, no miss, no noise why would you even think of doing this kind of maintenance unless you are flush with cash, anal compulsive, or paranoid. Whoever wrote the owners manual is nuts or was intending to build a profit stream for the dealership or to protect themselves on any possible motor warranty claim. My Kawi will go well over 100k before I get into the motor. Change oil and filter, tires, brake pads and ride it. JMHO.

[jsa]

If the valves were in spec when assembled

I think it is a pretty big "If" to assume that 100 percent of the valves were in spec when assembled and even if one were to agree with everything else you said.....everyone should check their valve clearances at least once close to the recommended interval.  I know of at least one FJR owner who didn't check his valve clearances (FJR's rarely need to be re-shimmed) and had a burned valve at 50K miles.

[VirginiaJim]

I don't trust Kwak past my arm when it comes to any adjustments being right....  That was on the C10 and also my C14.  I 'passed' my first check at 18k and will do at least one more in the next month or two.  I do have a mechanic that I trust at a dealership close by.

[BudCallaghan]

Just bought a 2009c14 with 17.6k miles. Doubt a first valve adjustment has been done. Think it is recommended to do it at 15k miles. Please post and tell me how you handle recommended valve adjustments. One service writer said typically you do not need it so early. He said the tech would listen to the motor and depending upon what he heard, he would tell the writer it did or did not need an adjustment at that time.

Really interested in what all you c14 owners handle this service.

Also, while talking service, I will change air filter, oil and filter, rear tranny oil, check coolant. Anything else? Did not think front fork oil needed looking at.

When I get it on Wednesday, plan to take it to dealer for recall fix. Has not been done yet.

I also have a 2009 model and did a valve clearance adjustment at 17,500 miles.  Of the 16 valves, five of them were too tight, many others were within specifications but on the verge of being too tight.  By the time the job was done to my satisfaction I had swapped many of the shims to center the tolerances and replaced half a dozen or so.  All told, 15 of the 16 shims had either been replaced or moved to get the whole valve train in the center of specifications.  There is no way a mechanic working for an hourly wage will ever approach this degree of accuracy.  He may be an extremely competent individual but it isn't his bike and he does not have the time it takes to do more than what is absolutely necessary.  I have the time, the ability, the tools and the patience to be meticulous.  But most importantly - I own and ride the bike and therefore care more about the quality of the job than anyone else can possibly have.  By the way, mine were all close enough to being "within spec" that the majority of the people you hire to do the job will tell you that all is well and button it up.  Thus avoiding the extra time and effort it takes to remove the cams and make the appropriate adjustments while still being paid a large sum of money for their assurance that everything is just hunky-dory when it really isn't.  Mine fell within this hunky-dory category but 15 of the 16 shims were changed when I was done.     

I would contact the person who sold the bike to you and ask if a shim adjustment had been made and what other service has been done.  If you cannot contact this person then simply assume that nothing has been done.

I use synthetic oil in both the engine/transmission and in the final drive and suggest you do the same.  Be sure to inspect all of the brake pads and clean the brake pistons.  I would also change the brake and clutch fluid.  As for the forks, I have yet to change the oil but the majority of my riding is done on smooth roads that don’t give the suspension much of a workout.  You don't know where yours has been so your ought to change the fluid.  I think that a coolant change is also in order.  If you're going to work on the bike yourself, put a wrench on every fastener you can reach to make sure everything tight.  I bought mine new and still found several nuts and bolts to be loose.  I don't think this was done at the factory but by the incompetent individual who took the bike out of the crate and got it ready for the showroom floor.  I use a K&N air filter and recommend it or one from one of its competitors that use oil to assist the filtration process.  If your bike has the stock windshield, I recommend getting one that is tall enough to get your head out of the wind.  I use the Cee Bailey extra tall Ultra Tour Domed shield.  I am 5'8" and can see over it when it is in the lowest position and only need to raise it an inch to eliminate all buffeting while still being able to see over it.  I have found that the less you have to raise the shield the less wind reaches your hands.  Cold hands are less responsive than warm hands and hand dexterity is essential to the safe operation of a motorcycle.  I also have heated grips and use electrically heated gloves from Gerbing's.

The most important bit of advice I can offer is to completely disregard the advice of elektradw.  In my opinion, he is about as clueless as one can get and as is frequently the case with such folks, has very strong but erroneous opinions and is more than willing to share his ignorance with others.   

[Pokey]

Valve check doesnt concern me much either, I might have them checked at 50K.

[Static]

Had my 09 checked by a competent dealer I trust at 20k a while back..all within spec. Just checked and adjusted again yesterday by same dealer at 48k. I had myself convinced I was probably wasting my money this round since at 20k they were in spec and didn't expect them to move much..but I play it safe.

Results, 2 intakes were tight and 1 exhaust loose. The tech also adjusted 2 add'l intakes closer to the middle of spec since the cams were out. I run the bike spirited but by no means flog it every time out and very rarely get near the rev limiter. The throttle bodies were also balanced and it is definitely a smoother, sweeter running bike. When the clearances change slowly over time, it's hard to notice any degradation in performance. You can call bs but the smoothness is without question noticeable after the adjustments.

My point is the clearances can definitely change as the miles add up. It's your motor..do what makes you comfortable. I plan to keep this bike at least until it hits 75k ...most likely past 100k. Don't need a burnt valve and I know people it has happened to. It won't see a valve check now probably until 80k at this point. YMMV.

[stevewfl]

I had my mechanic  do my 2010 at 25K, 50K, and probably will never do it again. 

At about 200K I'll probably part this biatch out on ebay.

[c14boy]

I have no intention of ever opening the valve train on my '11 to even inspect the valves.  My '08 has 182,000 miles as of October. At 50k I checked the valves and found all within allowable range per Kawa service manual. Same at 100k, never looked since.  I have seen many engines fail due to dealer service errors.  Point is when you have a reliable machine, let it be.  Works for me.

Mu 2001 Goldwing had 420k miles on it when I sold it and it was still running strong with no appreciable wear.  Bike is still in service. Never checked the valves.  Replaced plugs and air filter every 100k.  Oil and filter were changed at 25k intervals along with final drive oil.  Bike never missed a beat. No failures, never let me down. Just gas and go.

On the other hand my BMW's self destructed on schedule despite adhering to factory maintenance intervals.

[thundermax]

Man are we at opposite ends on valve adjustments! I think one thing is for sure : Kawa will cancel the warranty if they can on damage due to the owner not doing suggested maintenance?

Met the tech at Ajax Kawa in OKC. Red, a 41 yr old. 18 yrs at House of Kawa in OKC, 5 yrs. at Ajax Kawa. He really seemed to know his stuff but I have never used him.

[Pokey]

Man are we at opposite ends on valve adjustments! I think one thing is for sure : Kawa will cancel the warranty if they can on damage due to the owner not doing suggested maintenance?

Met the tech at Ajax Kawa in OKC. Red, a 41 yr old. 18 yrs at House of Kawa in OKC, 5 yrs. at Ajax Kawa. He really seemed to know his stuff but I have never used him.

Unlikely IMHO.

[thundermax]

Man are we at opposite ends on valve adjustments! I think one thing is for sure : Kawa will cancel the warranty if they can on damage due to the owner not doing suggested maintenance?

Met the tech at Ajax Kawa in OKC. Red, a 41 yr old. 18 yrs at House of Kawa in OKC, 5 yrs. at Ajax Kawa. He really seemed to know his stuff but I have never used him.

I do not really know, never been there. Has anyone reading this been in the situation?

[jjsC6]

I had three dealers tell me it was a waste of time to check them per the book.  I had mine checked at 28,000 miles and they were all in spec.   But as Jim said above, you don't know the history of the bike so I might be a good idea.

[dolomoto]

I have an 08. I checked mine at 36k, all were in spec with a few on the tight side. I set them all to the loose end and will check again next year (around 70k); if they  are in spec, I will set them to the loose end and never check them again.

[wildnphx]

I have a 08 and had them checked at 20k and no adjustments needed...  Then just last month at 48k I had them checked again and they said 4 needed adjusted but there was a valve cover leak the first time so that waranty work helped to offset some of the cost and then on the 2nd one I found out afterwards that the valve cove was leaking again but because it was not detected and submitted prior that I couldn't do the same thing as the first time... 

But I'm inclined to say that every 25k miles at the earliest is often enough....  Plugs replaced at the 48k mile service for the first time as well.

[Slideways]

I've been concerned about this very issue as my '08 is approaching 20k and the valves have never been done. Thanks to all who have posted. The guilt-o-meter has settled down now and I may have them checked soon if It will make me feel better, which from the general consenses seems to be one of the main reasons for this service.

From C14boy...
"On the other hand my BMW's self destructed on schedule despite adhering to factory maintenance intervals."
Kawasaki must build one hell of a motor! 

[elektradw]

In all the posts regarding valve clearances as a maintenance item, I don't recall any valves ever being found to actually be out of spec. One contributor talks about finding a burnt valve and this is what Im talking about when I say abuse. A burnt valve would display obvious symptoms and that is not what we are discussing here. Another contributor Bud Callaghan talks about the clearances being on the low (tight) side. What are you talking about? If the clearance is within spec it's fine. Moving the clearances to the middle of the range will do absolutely nothing except make you sleep better at night. As a matter of fact increasing the clearance decreases the valve lift, not something I would want to do. You, my friend, give the worst possible kind of advice and that is unsubstantiated and TOTAL OVERKILL. The point is, that if you are worried about engine problems in a C14 you are just being paranoid. This engine is bulletproof, unless you totally abuse the sh... out of it. And even that is hard to do with the rev limiter and quality of construction. Of all the motorcycles I have owned this is by far the most dependable. And believe me I am a maintenance freak. However, too many shade tree mechanics have listened to advice form owners like Callaghan, who may actually be able to accomplish this task competently, and attempted to service the valve train themselves by replacing shims with disastrous results. I have seen charts and programs and videos and heard all the comments. You are seriously risking total and catastrophic engine failure if you, or your so called qualified Kawasaki mechanic, makes one small mistake. Why would you rather take that risk over the infinitesimally small risk, and you would decide based on ridiculous and unqualified posts in this and other Concours forums, that the valves were found to be out of spec and require changing? Which by the way requires removing the cams, not something you really want to ever have to do. During the manufacturing process the valve clearances are all checked and double checked by a qualified engine builder. The engine only passes if the valves are found to be IN SPEC. It would be impossible for an engine to slip through this important quality control check and be further assembled. As far as the warranty is concerned. Maintenance done by owner. Period end of story. However, it is your bike. You can listen to the kooks who have nothing better to do then take their engines apart or do the research and see just how many engines are actually found to have valves truly out of spec.

[C1xRider]

In all the posts regarding valve clearances as a maintenance item, I don't recall any valves ever being found to actually be out of spec. One contributor talks about finding a burnt valve and this is what Im talking about when I say abuse. A burnt valve would display obvious symptoms and that is not what we are discussing here. Another contributor Bud Callaghan talks about the clearances being on the low (tight) side. What are you talking about? If the clearance is within spec it's fine. Moving the clearances to the middle of the range will do absolutely nothing except make you sleep better at night. As a matter of fact increasing the clearance decreases the valve lift, not something I would want to do. You, my friend, give the worst possible kind of advice and that is unsubstantiated and TOTAL OVERKILL. The point is, that if you are worried about engine problems in a C14 you are just being paranoid. This engine is bulletproof, unless you totally abuse the sh... out of it. And even that is hard to do with the rev limiter and quality of construction. Of all the motorcycles I have owned this is by far the most dependable. And believe me I am a maintenance freak. However, too many shade tree mechanics have listened to advice form owners like Callaghan, who may actually be able to accomplish this task competently, and attempted to service the valve train themselves by replacing shims with disastrous results. I have seen charts and programs and videos and heard all the comments. You are seriously risking total and catastrophic engine failure if you, or your so called qualified Kawasaki mechanic, makes one small mistake. Why would you rather take that risk over the infinitesimally small risk, and you would decide based on ridiculous and unqualified posts in this and other Concours forums, that the valves were found to be out of spec and require changing? Which by the way requires removing the cams, not something you really want to ever have to do. During the manufacturing process the valve clearances are all checked and double checked by a qualified engine builder. The engine only passes if the valves are found to be IN SPEC. It would be impossible for an engine to slip through this important quality control check and be further assembled. As far as the warranty is concerned. Maintenance done by owner. Period end of story. However, it is your bike. You can listen to the kooks who have nothing better to do then take their engines apart or do the research and see just how many engines are actually found to have valves truly out of spec.

What thread were you reading?  Look at the 3rd posting :

Listening to a motor will NOT tell you what the clearances are. Mine sounded fine. 15 out of 16 shims needed replacing. One of those was within specs, but was close enough that I changed it to bring it closer to the middle.

There were several other posts in this thread that stated they had one or more valves that needed adjusting, suggesting they were out of spec.  There have also been several threads over the last few years where lots of owners stated they had valves out of spec.

When I checked the valves on my 2010 (myself) at 24,463 miles, 2 were out of spec, and several more were at or near the limit.  I also moved them all to the middle of the spec.

For a bike that's never been checked, I think the biggest reason to check them is to establish a base line.  If the factory assembler messed something up, it's better to find out earlier than later (and they do mess things up, regardless of what you think of their "quality controls").

As for you're statements about Bud and those like him being paranoid, one could argue that you are also being paranoid, on the opposite side of the issue.  Many C14 owners have adjusted the valves on their C14's WITHOUT disastrous results (well, except maybe Haraldo), and if they have the skills and patience, should not be discouraged to do so.  It will not bring on the downfall of society, or cause the planet to stop spinning, or make the sun go out.  It will just result in them being proud of doing the job themselves, or humbled when they take it to the dealer to fix whatever they did wrong.