Valve Adjustment

[Scaffolder]

I had my 2008 checked at 20,000 when I had it. What a waste of money. I haven't checked my 2010 yet at 38,000 sweet miles. I might have my 2006 Dodge Charger valves checked too. NOT!!!

[Cheesecake]

I did my own first valve adjustment, 2008 model, at just under 25k miles. Every shim needed to be changed. Some were one step off, some two, and one was even 4 steps off. Went from a 20 shim to a 10.
I found the most important part of this job is having the right tools. Metric feeler gauges in .01 mm increments is a good start. Exhaust 0.19 ∼ 0.24 mm, to Inlet 0.12 ∼ 0.17 mm. So you need feeler gauges from 0.11 to 0.25. 
Meaning, 0.11; 0.12; 0.13; 0.14; 0.15; 0.16; 0.17; 0.18; 0.19; 0.20; 0.21; 0.22; 0.23; 0.24; 0.25. Without those feelers, you are holding two or three feelers together, and jerry rigging. I don't pay $85 an hour for a jerry rigger mech.

[Pokey]

MOB will hopefully be doing mine for me at probably around 40k, so I have a few years to prepare for it. 

[BudCallaghan]

In all the posts regarding valve clearances as a maintenance item, I don't recall any valves ever being found to actually be out of spec. One contributor talks about finding a burnt valve and this is what Im talking about when I say abuse. A burnt valve would display obvious symptoms and that is not what we are discussing here. Another contributor Bud Callaghan talks about the clearances being on the low (tight) side. What are you talking about? If the clearance is within spec it's fine. Moving the clearances to the middle of the range will do absolutely nothing except make you sleep better at night. As a matter of fact increasing the clearance decreases the valve lift, not something I would want to do. You, my friend, give the worst possible kind of advice and that is unsubstantiated and TOTAL OVERKILL. The point is, that if you are worried about engine problems in a C14 you are just being paranoid. This engine is bulletproof, unless you totally abuse the sh... out of it. And even that is hard to do with the rev limiter and quality of construction. Of all the motorcycles I have owned this is by far the most dependable. And believe me I am a maintenance freak. However, too many shade tree mechanics have listened to advice form owners like Callaghan, who may actually be able to accomplish this task competently, and attempted to service the valve train themselves by replacing shims with disastrous results. I have seen charts and programs and videos and heard all the comments. You are seriously risking total and catastrophic engine failure if you, or your so called qualified Kawasaki mechanic, makes one small mistake. Why would you rather take that risk over the infinitesimally small risk, and you would decide based on ridiculous and unqualified posts in this and other Concours forums, that the valves were found to be out of spec and require changing? Which by the way requires removing the cams, not something you really want to ever have to do. During the manufacturing process the valve clearances are all checked and double checked by a qualified engine builder. The engine only passes if the valves are found to be IN SPEC. It would be impossible for an engine to slip through this important quality control check and be further assembled. As far as the warranty is concerned. Maintenance done by owner. Period end of story. However, it is your bike. You can listen to the kooks who have nothing better to do then take their engines apart or do the research and see just how many engines are actually found to have valves truly out of spec.

I'll address the red colored portion of this gentleman's most recent post. 

In my initial post I clearly stated that five of my valves were definitely too tight while many others were so close to being too tight for me to conscientiously leave as is since the bike was sitting there with the cams out.

Changing the clearance to the middle of the specified acceptable range will do something.  As the miles accumulate and all of the valve clearances slowly tighten as they wear from contacting the valve seats, providing more clearance will provide a margin for the clearances to remaining within specifications.  DOHC engines that use either shim over or under buckets don't wear the other end of the valve while rockers that ride on the end of the valve do.

This was written by a guy who calls himself a maintenance freak.  One who shuns a necessary task because it apparently overwhelms his limited abilities.  He seems to be equating this simple maintenance chore of adjusting valves to brain surgery and can't imagine anyone figuring out how to do it. 

"Ridiculous and unqualified posts" is a most apt description of his own offerings.

There is really nothing difficult about removing the cams, nor is it difficult to put them back the way you found them.

This second post by elektradw on this topic certainly verifies what I said in the final paragraph of my first post and also brings to mind a very old cliché that remains true, "It is better to keep your mouth shut and let others think you a fool than to open it and remove all doubt".   

[VirginiaJim]

My mother-in-law says that as well....

[Pokey]

My mother-in-law says that as well....

So how is that working out for ya? 

[VirginiaJim]

So how is that working out for ya? 

Well, I'm still her son-in-law after 35+ years so I guess ok, Poke. 

[Toadestaber]

Just trade them let someone else deal with it.

[Pokey]

Well, I'm still her son-in-law after 35+ years so I guess ok, Poke. 

I had zero doubts.

[VirginiaJim]

 

[Z71]

Personally my experience with shimmed bucket valves would be leave them the f... alone. It is a gimmick for the dealerships to make money. If the valves were in spec when assembled, and unless you have a catastrophic occurrence, like run low on oil or over stress the engine, the likelihood of the valve shims needing switching or replacing are about zero. Some owners will exchange shims to the high side, some to the low side thinking they are doing something constructive. The only thing you are doing is either spending money for no reason at the dealership, or taking on a huge risk if you think you can do it yourself. One mistake, one miscalculation, read a clearance number wrong, engine too hot or too cold, go out of sequence.... the dangers are numerous. I would not even let a Kawasaki mechanic tackle this job. I have 37,000 miles on my '011 and would not even consider going near the valves. I keep hearing of owners finding valves "out of spec". What are you talking about? If the valve clearance is within the described clearances they are fine. Valve seat wear or valve stem stretch is rare unless you totally abuse your motorcycle every ride. I wouldn't even consider changing the spark plugs and they say to do that every 7500 miles. If you get good mileage, easy startups, no miss, no noise why would you even think of doing this kind of maintenance unless you are flush with cash, anal compulsive, or paranoid. Whoever wrote the owners manual is nuts or was intending to build a profit stream for the dealership or to protect themselves on any possible motor warranty claim. My Kawi will go well over 100k before I get into the motor. Change oil and filter, tires, brake pads and ride it. JMHO.

To reinforce your theory, my Mazda 626 has mechanical valve lifters with shim under bucket adjusters.  I first checked the valve clearances at 290,000 miles (not 29,000).  I found only two valves that were just above the upper limit, which means that none of the valves were too tight.  I did not adjust any of them and the car ran fine up to 339,000 miles when I decided to get rid of it.   Mazda does not even recommend adjusting the valves unless you hear valve noise.   

I would recommend CHECKING the valve clearance on the Concours at say 20k miles, but I would not lose my sleep if all the clearances were not exactly in the middle of the specified range.  If they are within the specified clearance range, leave them alone.

It has been my experience that valves with screw type adjusters require much more frequent adjustment than shim under bucket types.  Screw types are easy to adjust, but they do go out of spec. 

[strester]

my 08 has 22,000 on it and the valve cover was leaking so had it in shop and think 3 or 4 valves had to be adjusted. thanks to the ext. warranty!

[tjpgi]

Well, I have just finished my valve adjustment. I have an 2009 C 14 , bought it new. And about 16000 miles on it. I do  read this forum everyday, sometimes few times actually. I was going to wait to check my valves for at least untill 25 to 30 thousand miles. But, at the end of the riding season, I have noticed valve cover gasket leak. So, I have decided to go in with the confedence I have collected from you guys and also from Fred H. Video series. All I wanted to say is a BIG Thank you to all of you. I have not dealt with shim under bucket valve set up before but when I have started to work on it I have felt like I have done this many times. And , pretty much all of my in. and ex. specs were on eather lowest or below. I think I may have bonded to my bike even more now, lol.

Ahmet.

Ahmet were you out of warranty? Extended warranty? I would think that the labor associated with replacing the leaking gasket
( removing the plastic etc.) would have saved you a lot of labor costs ( under warranty) to have the dealer do the valve check unless of course you like motorcycle intimacy.

[TR34]

I was not out of warranty yet. Due is next March. I just like to do thinks by myself. Have an experiance or learn new things. I was actually happy to see the valve cover leaking this summer, so I would get in there. Lol. 

[Pepsi Supplier]

Personally my experience with shimmed bucket valves would be leave them the f... alone. It is a gimmick for the dealerships to make money. If the valves were in spec when assembled, and unless you have a catastrophic occurrence, like run low on oil or over stress the engine, the likelihood of the valve shims needing switching or replacing are about zero. Some owners will exchange shims to the high side, some to the low side thinking they are doing something constructive. The only thing you are doing is either spending money for no reason at the dealership, or taking on a huge risk if you think you can do it yourself. One mistake, one miscalculation, read a clearance number wrong, engine too hot or too cold, go out of sequence.... the dangers are numerous. I would not even let a Kawasaki mechanic tackle this job. I have 37,000 miles on my '011 and would not even consider going near the valves. I keep hearing of owners finding valves "out of spec". What are you talking about? If the valve clearance is within the described clearances they are fine. Valve seat wear or valve stem stretch is rare unless you totally abuse your motorcycle every ride. I wouldn't even consider changing the spark plugs and they say to do that every 7500 miles. If you get good mileage, easy startups, no miss, no noise why would you even think of doing this kind of maintenance unless you are flush with cash, anal compulsive, or paranoid. Whoever wrote the owners manual is nuts or was intending to build a profit stream for the dealership or to protect themselves on any possible motor warranty claim. My Kawi will go well over 100k before I get into the motor. Change oil and filter, tires, brake pads and ride it. JMHO.

you sir are the reason why I will never buy a used motorcycle !

[Pokey]

you sir are the reason why I will never buy a used motorcycle !

He is just one example, but in my opinion many owners do worry too much over nothing.

[Pepsi Supplier]

He is just one example, but in my opinion many owners do worry too much over nothing.

I agree he is just one example.
 I also agree some owners wory too much about seemingly minute things.

But I do not agree with anyone who feels that valve adjustment should be overlooked or thought of as "unnecessary" as so many suggest. And to compare a motorcycle shim under bucket engines wear charactersitics to a cars, absurd. So the bike revs to what 7500+ routinely and the car revs to 2500 routinely. The bike uses the same engine oil for the clutch, engine and transmission, the car uses it engine oil just for the engine. A motorcycle engine is pretty highly tuned for performance while a car is tuned for reliability, do we really need to continue on?

 I personally have adjusted valves on all the motorcycles I have owned since 1973, perhaps 50 bikes and many of them several times, the 08 concours I have 3 times now, never once have I felt it was a waste of time or unnecessary, actually every time I have been into any of them I have "had to" adjust valves. Typically I have found the most adjusting needed to be done the earlier on as the bike surpassed 50,000-60,000-100,000 miles the adjustments needed became smaller and smaller and less of them, but they were still needed.
 I have a 4 stroke Yamaha dirt bike with shim under bucket adjusters, I adjust those after every full day of riding it, so approx every 8-10 hours on the hour meter, never once have they been "in spec", actually often is the case the exhuast valves get real close to "0" clearance in those 8 hours and if allowed to go far beyond 10 hours they are hung open, negative clearance.
 So shame on you for those with their heads buried in the sand and think they'll run forever with no maitenance or little maintenance.

Again simply reaffirms my belief in not buying used ! And don't even get me started on  all the crap that gets posted all over the internet is just that, 99% crap and misinformation, including several posts in this thread.

[gPink]

you sir are the reason why I will never buy a used motorcycle !

I agree he is just one example.
 I also agree some owners wory too much about seemingly minute things.

 And don't even get me started on  all the crap that gets posted all over the internet is just that, 99% crap and misinformation, including several posts in this thread.

Interesting first posts. Do consider yourself the 1% or is this some of the 99% of which you speak.

[Pepsi Supplier]

Interesting first posts. Do consider yourself the 1% or is this some of the 99% of which you speak.

I am in the 1% for sure.

Oh wait that was a rhetorical question wasn't it?

[tjpgi]

you sir are the reason why I will never buy a used motorcycle !

OOOOuuccchhh!