Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: TJ on August 07, 2012, 01:00:04 AM

Title: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: TJ on August 07, 2012, 01:00:04 AM
Did a search and couldnt find anything.
What is the max speed for 1st? 2nd? 3rd?, etc
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: BigAlan on August 07, 2012, 03:02:42 AM
1st   reasonably quick
2nd  law breaking
3rd   even quicker
4th   a bit quicker
5th   total pleasure
OD    frightning

Hope this helps.

Alan

Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Conrad on August 07, 2012, 08:10:27 AM
154mph is the top speed for all you speed limited 2nd gen folks.

Too bad.    ;)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: jonathan on August 07, 2012, 09:03:40 AM
When the tach hits redline change to the next higher gear.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: stevewfl on August 07, 2012, 09:06:06 AM
Did a search and couldnt find anything.
What is the max speed for 1st? 2nd? 3rd?, etc

Not fast enough!  :D
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: rtarp1 on August 07, 2012, 09:09:38 AM
yeah ,  when it redlines in each gear thats top speed.   If you couldnt figure this out maybe you should take a riding class.   not trying to be a smartass  :)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Texas Concours14 on August 07, 2012, 09:11:49 AM
Quote
154mph is the top speed for all you speed limited 2nd gen folks.

Too bad.

True.  Unless one requests that Guhl remove this software-imposed limitation when they reflash the ECU, which I did for purely psychological reasons!
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: jayke on August 07, 2012, 10:16:12 AM
You guys are too rough on him ...   If you know the rear ratios you can calcuate them.  I don't.

Roughly from memory:

1st: around 60
2nd: 90 ish
3rd:  120 ish
4th:   140-150 ish?
5th and 6th no clue but probally faster in 5th than 6th

Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: danl on August 07, 2012, 10:28:48 AM
I've hit 100 in 2nd. The fastest I've gone is 140 and that was shifting from 4th to 5th gear but I don't remember the rpms. 120 in 3rd is a piece of cake.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Kazairl on August 07, 2012, 03:11:58 PM
According to the calculator I used, with a 190/50-R17 and 10500 rpm:

1st 72
2nd 100
3rd 127
4th 156
5th 187
6th 225

 Actual speed will be lower as the real world tire diameter doesn't match the calculated 24.48" tire diameter.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: TJ on August 07, 2012, 03:32:06 PM
According to the calculator I used, with a 190/50-R17 and 10500 rpm:

1st 72
2nd 100
3rd 127
4th 156
5th 187
6th 225

 Actual speed will be lower as the real world tire diameter doesn't match the calculated 24.48" tire diameter.

Thanks! Havent had a chance to really open it up safely without the chance of getting a ticket. I did notice when slipping it down to thrid at 70 to pass there was still a lot of room left on the tach to dip down into second.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Makz58 on August 07, 2012, 07:11:47 PM
1st gear allright second gear????Games on.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: wally_games on August 07, 2012, 08:22:57 PM
I don't think it will go much faster in sixth than it does in fifth. Sixth is kinda lame.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: maxtog on August 07, 2012, 08:53:07 PM
I don't think it will go much faster in sixth than it does in fifth. Sixth is kinda lame.

6th gear is not "lame" at all.  It is just a gear, and it is what enables a lower-rpm cruise at high speed; improving fuel economy, improving comfort, reducing wear, and reducing noise.  How is that "lame"?  I think it is "fantastic".

Of course it will not go any "faster" in 6th gear than 5th.  The bike won't go faster in 5th vs. 4th either, does that make 5th "lame" too?
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: wally_games on August 07, 2012, 08:57:37 PM
6th gear is not "lame" at all.  It is just a gear, and it is what enables a lower-rpm cruise at high speed; improving fuel economy, improving comfort, reducing wear, and reducing noise.  How is that "lame"?  I think it is "fantastic".

Of course it will not go any "faster" in 6th gear than 5th.  The bike won't go faster in 5th vs. 4th either, does that make 5th "lame" too?

Ok, lame from an increased speed and "pull" standpoint. Great for the several hundred RPM's you save when cruising the freeway. I use it all the time and would much rather have it than not.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: stewart on August 07, 2012, 09:17:10 PM
Lame = LESS ADRENALIN MORE ECONOMY
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Slideways on August 07, 2012, 10:43:54 PM
"Lame = LESS ADRENALIN MORE ECONOMY"

Good one Stewart  ;D
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: martin_14 on August 08, 2012, 01:18:37 AM
Of course it will not go any "faster" in 6th gear than 5th.  The bike won't go faster in 5th vs. 4th either, does that make 5th "lame" too?

 :o
Max, have you taken the bike to 10 000 rpm in 4th and 5th?
In my experience, 5th does take you faster than 4th.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Conrad on August 08, 2012, 04:40:38 AM
:o
Max, have you taken the bike to 10 000 rpm in 4th and 5th?
In my experience, 5th does take you faster than 4th.

 :thumbs:
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: cablebandit on August 08, 2012, 07:04:04 AM
According to the calculator I used, with a 190/50-R17 and 10500 rpm:

1st 72
2nd 100
3rd 127
4th 156
5th 187
6th 225

 Actual speed will be lower as the real world tire diameter doesn't match the calculated 24.48" tire diameter.

This must be in a vacuum.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: AftonJay on August 08, 2012, 07:46:39 AM
Actually it was in a calculator.  ;)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Kazairl on August 08, 2012, 10:53:15 AM
Vacuum would be zero mph as the engine would not operate without oxygen.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Conrad on August 08, 2012, 11:34:57 AM
Vacuum would be zero mph as the engine would not operate without oxygen.

Details details
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: martin_14 on August 08, 2012, 12:39:09 PM
This must be in a vacuum.

Well, I checked the numbers today with my GPS and fresh (only 200 miles old) Pirelli Angels by reaching 8000 rpm and extrapolated, and at 10700 rpm I get exactly Kazairl numbers. I also calculated them for reassurance (tire diameter, ratios, etc.) and they are within 0.5 mph. These are my numbers:

1st     72.3 mph
2nd  100.0 mph
3rd   126.9 mph
4th   156.0 mph
5th   186.7 mph
6th   224.5 mph
A big "thanks!" to all those kind German drivers that got out of my freaking way on the A8 from Salzburg to Munich this afternoon  :chugbeer:
I guess Oktoberfest around the corner makes them extra nice this time of the year...

Note: I didn't reach 8000 rpm in 6th because I was with my topcase and was afraid it would be "unhealthy" so I stopped at 6000 rpm (126 mph) and extrapolated.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: cablebandit on August 08, 2012, 02:05:02 PM
Yeah...it doesn't quite work that way.   ::)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Kazairl on August 08, 2012, 02:44:56 PM
Note: I didn't reach 8000 rpm in 6th because I was with my topcase and was afraid it would be "unhealthy" so I stopped at 6000 rpm (126 mph) and extrapolated.

Pansy.  :P

 I'm surprised the numbers would turn out that close. I guess the size designation on the sidewall is closer to true height than I figured.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Slideways on August 08, 2012, 03:16:55 PM
I can say that in the real world 3rd is over 120mph as indicated on my speedo. Shifted to 4th at an indicated 124mph dropping an especially annoying punk in a WRX.  8)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: maxtog on August 08, 2012, 03:37:23 PM
:o
Max, have you taken the bike to 10 000 rpm in 4th and 5th?
In my experience, 5th does take you faster than 4th.

According to the math posted, one would hit top speed in 4th, no?
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Dalroo on August 08, 2012, 04:18:11 PM
Great info - thanks!
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: B.D.F. on August 08, 2012, 04:55:56 PM
It depends but probably not- it is not likely that the engine will actually reach 10,700 RPM before the ECU cuts it off (mine is a lot closer to 9,700 than 10,700). The next thing to consider is where the engine makes max. torque and what gear would actually get the engine to produce the greatest amount at that speed.

As I remember from those who have posted about it, the bike reaches max. speed in 5th gear.

And of course it is not physically possible for this bike, with a stock engine, to get near 200 MPH in reality because there is just not enough available power to overcome the drag at that speed or even close.

Brian

According to the math posted, one would hit top speed in 4th, no?
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: TJ on August 08, 2012, 11:18:18 PM
I can say that in the real world 3rd is over 120mph as indicated on my speedo. Shifted to 4th at an indicated 124mph dropping an especially annoying punk in a WRX.  8)

He he ;D Glad you smoked his punk ass.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: martin_14 on August 09, 2012, 12:16:01 AM
According to the math posted, one would hit top speed in 4th, no?

I don't know what top speed you mean, but I reached 167 mph on my gps in 5th twice in the past, and I've stayed there and she didn't have anything else to give. My bike is basically stock and I was with the bags on, which I find a bit more stable.
Faster than 150 mph is out of reach in 4th because the limiter won't allow it. And I can't get the bike any faster than that in 6th, either. She just runs out of steam. But downshifting into 5th does the trick and up to 160 (258 kmh, for those who got rid of their ex-colony status  ;D) is relatively quick. From there on is just waiting and praying that nothing comes in your way. Too stressful for me, although I know she is just flexing her muscles.
Every time I find myself in a 3 or 4 lanes stretch of Autobahn with no traffic and twist the throttle, I feel like unleashing a high prey dog.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Conrad on August 09, 2012, 04:58:39 AM
According to the math posted, one would hit top speed in 4th, no?

That would be true for your slower 2nd gen bike Max. According to the math that is.    ;)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: chi-gpz1100 on August 09, 2012, 09:27:01 AM
Here's a nice little calculator I found for computing theoretical speeds.  Just input your tire size, gear and final gear ratios and it does the rest.

http://f-body.org/gears/ (http://f-body.org/gears/)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Bourne2Ride on August 09, 2012, 09:40:27 AM
So my 2011 won't go any faster in 5th then in 4th. :D. Not unless i re-flash the ECU, right? Actually I use 5th and 6th to save fuel on the super-slab. I dont't think I've ever been up past maybe 120 while passing a convoy of trucks on I95 south. I was in 5th gear and just twisted to WOT till i was passed and moved back to the right.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: danl on August 09, 2012, 11:34:27 AM

Every time I find myself in a 3 or 4 lanes stretch of Autobahn with no traffic and twist the throttle, I feel like unleashing a high prey dog.

Sorta like this. (I don't think many will get that reference)
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj60/dan88z/dogs/gunnar/protection/DSC00186.jpg)
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj60/dan88z/dogs/gunnar/protection/aohjump.jpg)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: wally_games on August 09, 2012, 02:12:05 PM
So my 2011 won't go any faster in 5th then in 4th. :D. Not unless i re-flash the ECU, right? Actually I use 5th and 6th to save fuel on the super-slab. I dont't think I've ever been up past maybe 120 while passing a convoy of trucks on I95 south. I was in 5th gear and just twisted to WOT till i was passed and moved back to the right.

You should have downshifted to third (if not second) and then WOT to pass. Would have been MUCH more exciting of a pass. Quicker, too. 8)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Wilsonos2 on August 12, 2012, 07:08:11 PM
I can tell you on the dyno running into the rev limiter in 5th mine hit 175. No wind resistence. Its an 09 with a 190 rear tire.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Pokey on August 12, 2012, 07:21:18 PM
Can't say that I have ever even thought about it.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Boomer on August 14, 2012, 05:06:14 AM
Since 6th gear is an overdrive (hence the OD in the display) it is purely there to reduce engine rpm at cruising speeds.
Overdrives have a small effect on fuel economy but it's mostly about reducing wear on the motor/gearbox.
Fuel economy is almost all down to drag once yer running at constant speeds.
Higher speed = higher drag.

Someone on here did a speed run on an airfield a few years back (on a faster 1st Gen,.. naturally!  ;D) and clocked 176Mph with no side bags and OEM screen, but I can't remember if he'd removed the 'Flies and fitted a Power Commander.
That was in 5th gear.

My personal record was 165Mph indicated (in 5th, probably about 155Mph real) on the Autobahn (A3, Frankfurt to Bonn) whilst "playing" with a guy on a ZX12R. We had some fun!  8) ;D
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: quiet and invisible on August 14, 2012, 06:19:33 AM
Did a search and couldnt find anything.
What is the max speed for 1st? 2nd? 3rd?, etc
I ran out of road but here's what I came up with.
ZG1400 getting opened up a bit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bHn4Sq7bxY#)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Conrad on August 14, 2012, 08:43:15 AM
Sorta like this. (I don't think many will get that reference)
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj60/dan88z/dogs/gunnar/protection/DSC00186.jpg)
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj60/dan88z/dogs/gunnar/protection/aohjump.jpg)

Maxdog?
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: gPink on August 14, 2012, 09:13:55 AM
Ahhhh,look at the cute little puppy.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: maxtog on August 14, 2012, 03:51:43 PM
Maxdog?

No comment....  my cats would not like.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Clark Kent on August 14, 2012, 07:53:35 PM
Did a search and couldnt find anything.
What is the max speed for 1st? 2nd? 3rd?, etc

I think it's:

1st

2nd

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil:  (http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f134/ck409/bless.gif)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: C1xRider on August 14, 2012, 08:05:23 PM
Since 6th gear is an overdrive (hence the OD in the display) it is purely there to reduce engine rpm at cruising speeds.
Overdrives have a small effect on fuel economy but it's mostly about reducing wear on the motor/gearbox.
Fuel economy is almost all down to drag once yer running at constant speeds.
Higher speed = higher drag.

Someone on here did a speed run on an airfield a few years back (on a faster 1st Gen,.. naturally!  ;D) and clocked 176Mph with no side bags and OEM screen, but I can't remember if he'd removed the 'Flies and fitted a Power Commander.
That was in 5th gear.

My personal record was 165Mph indicated (in 5th, probably about 155Mph real) on the Autobahn (A3, Frankfurt to Bonn) whilst "playing" with a guy on a ZX12R. We had some fun!  8) ;D

6th gear is NOT an overdrive, the display is lying to you.  The gear ratios for the C14 are :

1st   3.333 (50/15)
2nd   2.412 (41/17)
3rd   1.900 (38/20)
4th   1.545 (34/22)
5th   1.292 (31/24)
6th   1.074 (29/27)

To be an overdrive, 6th would have to be 0.99 or less.

Actually there are several definitions as to what OD stands for on the C14, but OverDrive is not one of them.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Pokey on August 14, 2012, 08:53:43 PM
6th gear is NOT an overdrive, the display is lying to you.  The gear ratios for the C14 are :

1st   3.333 (50/15)
2nd   2.412 (41/17)
3rd   1.900 (38/20)
4th   1.545 (34/22)
5th   1.292 (31/24)
6th   1.074 (29/27)

To be an overdrive, 6th would have to be 0.99 or less.

Actually there are several definitions as to what OD stands for on the C14, but OverDrive is not one of them.


Being that I rarely use it under 70/75 mph, I would consider it for sure an OD.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: maxtog on August 14, 2012, 09:29:48 PM
"Over drive" is now a mostly confused/lost term.  Traditionally it was an addon gear ratio box that could be added on top of any gear.  That is long gone.

I do like the Wikipedia version of the current use: "an overall gear ratio between engine and wheels, such that the car is now over-geared and can no longer reach its potential top speed".  In that regard, 6th on the Concours really is an overdrive.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: pistole on August 14, 2012, 10:46:23 PM
- don't like the "OD" display on the dash , would much have preferred just "6"

- "OD" is so old school.

.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 15, 2012, 04:29:20 AM
To be an overdrive, 6th would have to be 0.99 or less.

Actually there are several definitions as to what OD stands for on the C14, but OverDrive is not one of them.

Why isn't it an overdrive?  I'm sure that OD doesn't stand for overdose in the manuals.  Kwak considers it an overdrive.  Just wondering...
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: martin_14 on August 15, 2012, 11:38:27 AM
I do like the Wikipedia version of the current use: "an overall gear ratio between engine and wheels, such that the car is now over-geared and can no longer reach its potential top speed".  In that regard, 6th on the Concours really is an overdrive.

+1
the ratio itself is irrelevant. A car could even have 2 or 3 OverDrive, if desired. Those extra gears are not for reaching a higher speed, but to lower the RPM when cruising, hence reducing wear and improving fuel economy. I seem to remember driving a BMW 650i with that new ZF gearbox with 8 ratios, and 7th and 8th were overdrives. Or it might have been only 8th, don't know.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: C1xRider on August 15, 2012, 08:30:57 PM
Why isn't it an overdrive?  I'm sure that OD doesn't stand for overdose in the manuals.  Kwak considers it an overdrive.  Just wondering...

Is this question in jest?

We're talking about transmission gears and transmission gear ratios.  The primary purpose of the transmission is to change it's input shaft speed relative to it's output shaft speed.  That doesn't include the engine power available, the final drive ratio, or the wheel & tire diameter in the gear ratio equation.

If the transmission input speed is greater than the transmission output speed, the gear is a under-drive.
If the transmission input speed is equal to the transmission output speed, the gear is a direct-drive.
If the transmission input speed is less than the transmission output speed, the gear is a over-drive.

The Wikipedia description is weak at best.  Saying the term overdrive is dependent on the power output of the engine, and what it can do at the wheels, is not based on anything tangible.  Put a 20' sail on the front of the bike, and second gear becomes an overdrive in a head wind.  With the proper tail wind, there would be no overdrive at all.

I fault Kwak for not using proper terminology with their gear selection display (Marketing spec'd, I'm sure).  Heck, they probably authored the Wikipedia entry as dis-information to cover their marketing jive ("OD").
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 16, 2012, 04:45:38 AM
Is this question in jest?

We're talking about transmission gears and transmission gear ratios.  The primary purpose of the transmission is to change it's input shaft speed relative to it's output shaft speed.  That doesn't include the engine power available, the final drive ratio, or the wheel & tire diameter in the gear ratio equation.

If the transmission input speed is greater than the transmission output speed, the gear is a under-drive.
If the transmission input speed is equal to the transmission output speed, the gear is a direct-drive.
If the transmission input speed is less than the transmission output speed, the gear is a over-drive.

The Wikipedia description is weak at best.  Saying the term overdrive is dependent on the power output of the engine, and what it can do at the wheels, is not based on anything tangible.  Put a 20' sail on the front of the bike, and second gear becomes an overdrive in a head wind.  With the proper tail wind, there would be no overdrive at all.

I fault Kwak for not using proper terminology with their gear selection display (Marketing spec'd, I'm sure).  Heck, they probably authored the Wikipedia entry as dis-information to cover their marketing jive ("OD").

No.  Totally serious.  Do you have a link to something or can refer to a book that has the 'proper' definition of overdrive?  I'm willing to listen to alternate theories but I need solid references before I change my mind.  So far, I haven't seen them.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: martin_14 on August 16, 2012, 05:26:07 AM
No.  Totally serious.  Do you have a link to something or can refer to a book that has the 'proper' definition of overdrive?  I'm willing to listen to alternate theories but I need solid references before I change my mind.  So far, I haven't seen them.

+1
same here. I don't mind learning, I just need more than your word. With all due respect.  :)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Pokey on August 16, 2012, 08:41:03 AM
The "OD" might mean oh damn, which means you are probably on the super slab. :-[
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: stevewfl on August 16, 2012, 09:29:18 AM
The "OD" might mean oh damn, which means you are probably on the super slab. :-[


^^^^^^^^^^^^THAT! 
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: wally_games on August 16, 2012, 11:30:33 AM
This link http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+overdrive&qpvt=definition+of+overdrive&FORM=DTPDIA (http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+overdrive&qpvt=definition+of+overdrive&FORM=DTPDIA) says that one of the difinitions of "overdrive" is:

"highest engine gear: the highest gear in the engine of a motor vehicle that is used at high speeds for fuel economy and to save engine wear"

This fits the Kawasaki designation for sixth gear on the Concours.

But, the Mirriam-Webster dictionary at http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/overdrive (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/overdrive) says:

"an automotive transmission gear that transmits to the drive shaft a speed greater than engine speed"

This does not fit the Kawasaki designation for sixth gear on the Concours.

TO-MAY-TO or TO-MAH-TO
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Conrad on August 16, 2012, 11:34:53 AM
ketchup or catsup
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 16, 2012, 02:01:39 PM
Thanks, Wally.  So it's really personal opinion on which one you subscribe to.  In the 2008 C14 Design Factoid from Kwak which every C14 owner should read:

Q: Why is sixth gear called Overdrive?

A: The C14 has an extra-tall “Overdrive” sixth gear that lets the engine run
slower when cruising, producing less vibration and noise thus raising comfort
levels and lowering fuel consumption – by approximately five percent. It also
permits for a closer gear ratio from 1st to 5th for better sport performance.

http://www.kawasaki.com/Content/pdfs/products/concours_QandA.pdf (http://www.kawasaki.com/Content/pdfs/products/concours_QandA.pdf)

So, if it's good enough for Kwak, it's good enough for me.  I'm going to still call it an overdrive (OD) but that's me.  Whomever is welcome to call it anything they want or not.  It's all good......I think.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: gPink on August 16, 2012, 02:15:16 PM
If I win the race it was in 6th. If I lose it's because it was in overdrive.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: B.D.F. on August 16, 2012, 02:18:00 PM
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/overdrive (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/overdrive)

It is the first definition :-)

The term used correctly describes a very specific condition as C1xRider said- if the output shaft of the transmission is turning faster than the input shaft, it is in fact an overdrive. Most transmissions (I speak generally here and it applies more to older autos then current transmissions in all vehicles) simply locked the output shaft to the input shaft in the highest gear. So if you had a four- speed transmission, you really only had three gears and a 'pass through' coupling that was called fourth gear. The vehicle's overall gearing in high 'gear' was controlled by the rear end ratio exclusively. The along came a manufacturer who actual did use a gear ratio for high gear which gave the drive train designer more flexibility in the vehicle's ratios (a lower rear end ratio for better low gear acceleration but still relatively low engine speeds for highway cruising). The marketing people called it an 'overdrive'.

More recently the term has become used to describe what a manufacturer wants to point out as a high overall gear ratio but they are using the term incorrectly, technically speaking. When the term is used that way it also becomes meaningless because it has no definition and can be whatever the manufacturer wants it to be.

So strictly and correctly speaking, the C-14 does NOT have overdrive. It does have a high gear ratio in sixth gear resulting in low engine RPMs for given highway speeds and that is what they are probably trying to convey from a practical point of view.

In the end, KiPass fixes all of that up and covers us all in a cloud of euphoria anyway no matter what gear we happen to be in at the time, including neutral.

Brian


No.  Totally serious.  Do you have a link to something or can refer to a book that has the 'proper' definition of overdrive?  I'm willing to listen to alternate theories but I need solid references before I change my mind.  So far, I haven't seen them.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 16, 2012, 02:21:08 PM
I don't know, if I win the race, I think it would be funnier to tell the loser it was in overdrive....or stuck in first gear.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: B.D.F. on August 16, 2012, 02:26:57 PM
Just saw this post.

Again, just my opinion, and it is certainly not a big deal but Kawasaki is still using the term incorrectly in my opinion. I understand why they are doing it, and it does convey the idea that they are trying to make the engine turn more slowly than it might without the 'overdrive' but again, the word has a definition that cannot be redefined just because some entity would like to use it incorrectly in advertising.

The English word 'several' was clearly defined as a number between 3 and 60. I guess 62.95678 would be close enough to fudge that but in reality, anything over 60 is not 'a few'. More recently the definition has been broadened to mean more than two but less than 'many', which is not a defintion at all. As a side note, consider that our constitution has defined the max. number of states by referring to them collectively as 'the several states'. That's right folks, only 10 more max.  ;D

Brian


Thanks, Wally.  So it's really personal opinion on which one you subscribe to.  In the 2008 C14 Design Factoid from Kwak which every C14 owner should read:

Q: Why is sixth gear called Overdrive?

A: The C14 has an extra-tall “Overdrive” sixth gear that lets the engine run
slower when cruising, producing less vibration and noise thus raising comfort
levels and lowering fuel consumption – by approximately five percent. It also
permits for a closer gear ratio from 1st to 5th for better sport performance.

http://www.kawasaki.com/Content/pdfs/products/concours_QandA.pdf (http://www.kawasaki.com/Content/pdfs/products/concours_QandA.pdf)

So, if it's good enough for Kwak, it's good enough for me.  I'm going to still call it an overdrive (OD) but that's me.  Whomever is welcome to call it anything they want or not.  It's all good......I think.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 16, 2012, 02:30:26 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: gPink on August 16, 2012, 03:20:21 PM
we all know there are 57 states
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: B.D.F. on August 16, 2012, 04:13:50 PM
I think you are confusing 'varieties' with 'states'. A common mistake.

:-)

Brian

we all know there are 57 states
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: C1xRider on August 16, 2012, 06:58:51 PM
No.  Totally serious.  Do you have a link to something or can refer to a book that has the 'proper' definition of overdrive?  I'm willing to listen to alternate theories but I need solid references before I change my mind.  So far, I haven't seen them.

Hmm, okay, I thought it was common knowledge, but perhaps it's tribal knowledge.

There are many, many books that define the terms, like this one just for motorcycles :

Title   Modern Motorcycle Technology
Author   Edward Abdo
Edition   2, illustrated
Publisher   Cengage Learning, 2012
ISBN   1111640645, 9781111640644
Length   560 pages

You can see the definitions on page 198 : (http://books.google.com/books?id=iQxsme0owiMC&pg=PA198&lpg=PA198&dq=motorcycle+transmission+gear+ratio+definition+%22under+drive%22+%22direct+drive%22+%22over+drive%22&source=bl&ots=zsJ9XA8vA1&sig=kE2vGdSyA3Vi_kPXRKlyIwDsPzU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yJQtUMCIIqa_ygGs4oGAAQ&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=motorcycle%20transmission%20gear%20ratio%20definition%20%22under%20drive%22%20%22direct%20drive%22%20%22over%20drive%22&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=iQxsme0owiMC&pg=PA198&lpg=PA198&dq=motorcycle+transmission+gear+ratio+definition+%22under+drive%22+%22direct+drive%22+%22over+drive%22&source=bl&ots=zsJ9XA8vA1&sig=kE2vGdSyA3Vi_kPXRKlyIwDsPzU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yJQtUMCIIqa_ygGs4oGAAQ&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=motorcycle%20transmission%20gear%20ratio%20definition%20%22under%20drive%22%20%22direct%20drive%22%20%22over%20drive%22&f=false))
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 17, 2012, 03:59:52 AM
 :thumbs:
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: TJ on August 18, 2012, 12:38:27 AM
Almost  8) regretting I started this thread!
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 18, 2012, 04:14:00 AM
Why?
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: pistole on August 21, 2012, 04:31:26 AM
- personally , would have much much preferred just "6" on the gear display and not that odd OD symbol thing which looks crazy.
.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: wally_games on August 21, 2012, 11:29:43 AM
- personally , would have much much preferred just "6" on the gear display and not that odd OD symbol thing which looks crazy.
.

That's so you won't mistake the 6 for a 5 and try to upshift again.  ;)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Conrad on August 21, 2012, 12:00:03 PM
That's so you won't mistake the 6 for a 5 and try to upshift again.  ;)

That's right, at 150mph that 5 and 6 might look the same.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: maxtog on August 21, 2012, 04:16:45 PM
- personally , would have much much preferred just "6" on the gear display and not that odd OD symbol thing which looks crazy.

+1
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 21, 2012, 04:41:20 PM
Nope.  OD is fine with me, but then I'm a wild and crazy guy!
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Pokey on August 21, 2012, 07:11:08 PM
Nope.  OD is fine with me, but then I'm a wild and crazy guy!


Why not have the word "DONE" displayed instead? And boy do some of you old grumpy farts nitpick.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: gPink on August 21, 2012, 07:16:30 PM
Could of had this instead... $
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: B.D.F. on August 21, 2012, 07:20:29 PM
Down Cap'n Pokey, DOWN.

 ;D

Now we know why Fudgers only have 5 speeds- saves on a lot o' fighting.

Brian


Why not have the word "DONE" displayed instead? And boy do some of you old grumpy farts nitpick.
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: CrashGordon on August 21, 2012, 08:17:29 PM
I think instead of "OD" or "6" there should be a  ;D or a  8).
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: maxtog on August 21, 2012, 08:48:17 PM
At least "OD" has so many more possibilities

OnDashboard
ObedientlyDrab
OverDose
OverDone
ObligatorilyDreadful
ObscenelyDire
ObsessivelyDumb
ObviouslyDull
ObtrusivelyDampening

...
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Son of Pappy on August 21, 2012, 10:46:40 PM
As BDF has become the voice of reason what I think HE should do is put the bike up on the centerstand and run through the gears, using a video capturing device to record his findings.  While he's at it he can also do a quick volumetric test in each gear ;)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: B.D.F. on August 22, 2012, 02:10:49 PM
(said in his best reasonable voice).... my volume remains pretty much constant no matter what gear I happen to be in at the moment.

Brian

As BDF has become the voice of reason what I think HE should do is put the bike up on the centerstand and run through the gears, using a video capturing device to record his findings.  While he's at it he can also do a quick volumetric test in each gear ;)
Title: Re: Max speed for each gear?
Post by: Boomer on August 24, 2012, 07:17:33 AM
(said in his best reasonable voice).... my volume remains pretty much constant no matter what gear I happen to be in at the moment.
Brian
Oh I don't know, in a tightly pulled basque your volume would be sure to decrease.  ;D