Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Awaz on April 16, 2012, 10:35:52 AM
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I bought a shinko raven front tire off internet. There is only a Honda dealer about a mile away. And another motorcycle mechanic place about 5 miles. The honda place flat out refused to switch out the tire if I did not buy from them. The other mechanic was going to charge me $40 to switch out the tire because I did not buy from them. I have the wheel off. Is that how changing tire at a shop plays out?? The last time I had a shop change tire, it was not like that at all. I had a surgery couple weeks back and not feeling up to changing tire - I do not have a tire changer so use to do it old fashion way. So, was not feeling up to doing it myself. But what the shops indicated is a new revelation for me ! Anyone with same experience?
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Shops can be moody at times because for the most part they have no competition. When you get sick of irons time to get a "No-Mar"
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That is pretty normal for allot of shops.
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Talked to a shop here around Houston that will not change a tire that was bought on the internet. He said many tires bought on the internet from discount places have possible defects, and that they (the shop) didn't want the liability if anything were to happen.
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Same story here. They also told me internet tires can sometimes be older runs, too.
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Well, I guess gonna have to do it old fashion way. Just need a way to balance the wheel.
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You might post your location. There are a number of forum members with tire changing equipment, and some may be close to you.
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I hear the "old", "defect" argument all the time. Truth really is that the Internet dealers turn over most tires so fast they never get old and the brick and mortar stores have years old tires on the shelves because they charge so much no one will buy them.
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You might have a Cycle Gear store near you. I believe they charge $20 to mount and balance, but you need to bring the wheel off the bike.
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The last time I called the dealer closest to me (Honda/Yamaha) they said it would cost me $450 if I brought my wheels in to them ($400 for the PR2's and $50 to put them on). I asked if they would cut me a better deal or match an internet price since I can get the tires for under $300. It is amazing to me how they would rather charge a crazy high price to a couple people rather than charge a reasonable price and have a lot of happy customers. I don't expect them to match an internet price but if they can get within $10 I would be happy to give them my business.
The Kawasaki dealer 30 minutes from my house on the other hand will happily mount a tire I bought on the internet and they will also give very competitive prices on the tires.
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You might post your location. There are a number of forum members with tire changing equipment, and some may be close to you.
I am in Jacksonville, IL about 30 miles west of Springfield, IL.
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Talked to a shop here around Houston that will not change a tire that was bought on the internet. He said many tires bought on the internet from discount places have possible defects, and that they (the shop) didn't want the liability if anything were to happen.
Let me see if I got this right. What your shop is saying is that a company like Michelin sells tires with known defects and only to shops that do business on the internet. It's crap like this that is the reason I started doing it myself.
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Well, I guess gonna have to do it old fashion way. Just need a way to balance the wheel.
Couple of good bearings and an axle. Or this, pricey but this works very well: http://www.marcparnes.com/Universal_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm (http://www.marcparnes.com/Universal_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm)
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2 jack stands with your axle spanned across them (with the wheel on) will work too.
Makes a nice and cheap balancing stand.
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I just had a PR3 front tire installed on my bike. They charged me 176 dollars OTD but I brought the rim with the old tire on it. They provided the new one and changed/balanced it, I thought that was a fair price. I save 40 bucks by taking it off myself and bringing it there but their price is very close to Internet for rhte tire. I go to Vetesnik in Richland Center Wi.
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I hear the "old", "defect" argument all the time. Truth really is that the Internet dealers turn over most tires so fast they never get old and the brick and mortar stores have years old tires on the shelves because they charge so much no one will buy them.
Agreed. It is just a bunch of made up excuses shops will use to try and force people to buy tires from them at way over market rates.
I have ZERO problem with ordering and paying for a tire from a local dealer, and I will even pay more for the convenience. But how much more is "reasonable" is always the question. 5%? Sure. 10%? probably. 15%? That is pushing it. 25%? NO
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Agreed. It is just a bunch of made up excuses shops will use to try and force people to buy tires from them at way over market rates.
I have ZERO problem with ordering and paying for a tire from a local dealer, and I will even pay more for the convenience. But how much more is "reasonable" is always the question. 5%? Sure. 10%? probably. 15%? That is pushing it. 25%? NO
Same here. I hate changing tires. If the local shop is reasonable I'll do business with them.
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Yup, pretty normal excuse for the shops so instead of getting some of my business they get none at all. I've saved a bunch of money buying off the internet and changing them myself over the years.
I've seen a static balance made from a factory axle and a couple of jack stands. simple and it works
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What amazes me is that they are missing out on a chance to sell themselves - which is what sales is all about when you get right down to it. If I were the dealer I'd make lemonade out of Lemons. I'd tell them I will mount a tire for them this time if they will do me the courtesy of checking my tire prices the next time. I would hand them a business card with a short note on the back and ask them to bring my card back in next time and ask for me (as a reminder to me as to what happened). Then I'd get within 10% or less of the internet price and try my damnedest to make a customer for life out of them. And I don't mean to brag, but I'd bet anything that 9 times out of 10 I would succeed. I know for a fact that many dealers will discount parts and accessories if you approach them right. And as others here have said, I don't care if they are at internet prices as long as they are within spitting distance. Most customers would rather do business locally if they can.
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Just like anyone, I look for a good deal and buy stuff online all the time. However, sometimes I am willing to pay more for good service.
When it comes to my Connie, I usually buy locally. My dealer went out of business last year and the next nearest dealer is horrible!
Lucky for me the service manager and his boyhood friend who also turned wrenches there opened up their own shop doing service and repairs. They are the most talented bike techs I ever met and they are honest guys. I just had a ton of maintenance work done on my c14 which included tires. I wanted Conti road attack II's but his distributor did not carry them. He said he could get them but they might be pricier than other brands since he had to get them elsewhere. I explained that I was willing to pay for some mark-up because the bottom line was that if he only relied on labor to pay the lease, bills, insurance, lights, heat, etc that he and his partner would likely not be in business very long.
Not only would I hate to see them close but I also have a stake in making sure he stays open. I don't want to have to find another mechanic that I can trust.
Owning and running a motorcycle business can be tough. Think about it. At least here in New England, you basically have about 8 months maximum business. When it is cold nobody comes in the door. Motorcycle sales are down in this recession and the margin on most brands is rather low. No dealer can make it by just selling bikes and some gear so they need to make money in service. People think every dollar paid between wholesale and retail is profit! It is not. You need to pay the following........
Lease or mortgage on building
Taxes on the building if owned
Heat
Electricity
Building maintenance and upkeep
Payroll for staff, mechanics, parts counter, sales, etc
Payroll taxes. (Did you know every dollar the employee pays in federal tax is matched and paid to the IRS by the employer too?)
Workers compensation insurance
Medical insurance for staff
Vacation pay
Sick pay
An accountant or book keeper
Signage
Company taxes on profit to state and feds
Advertising
Telephone and internet
And I am sure there are some big things I am missing
So the bottom line is that if a dealer or shop only charges you labor and does not mark up parts they will probably close shop. I am willing to pay more in these instances so long as I am not getting royally shafted. For me those tires were $325 online. I was fine paying $385 because I knew he would take care properly mounting and balancing them for me too.
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Well said.
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« on: April 05, 2012, 04:53:34 pm »
I am 60 miles North of NY City and just paid $25.00 for them to mount and balance a new PR3.
While having the bike inspected(NY State Inspection) the inspector mentioned the cupping and wear on the existing front tire(PR2). I was well aware of the condition of the tire before I brought it in, but knew that it was good enough to pass NY State Inspection. The inspector told me that although it passed, he suggested that I should consider replacing it in the near future. When I told him that I was going to order one in the next few days and install it myself he told me that they would try to match an internet price if given the opportunity and would do the tire install for $25.00 if I brought him just the wheel.
They matched an online price that I brought in ($136.00) but with the taxes and disposal fee the entire thing with installation, balancing, and installing a 90 degree adapter that I supplied came to $172.00. I heard the tech ask the service manager about the torque spec on the TPMS adapter and to tell you the honest truth I was quite impressed that he would even think to ask. The service manager looked it up on line for the spec. I walked away with a good feeling that I got a quality job. By the way, they did it while I waited.
Fred
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Motorcycle sales are down in this recession and the margin on most brands is rather low
Surprisingly not as much as you would think. Esp the Harley dealer around here said they are doing fine in sales volume. And not the small bikes either. full dress tour'ers and trikes going out the door. The "recession" is just a line of crap they feed us meaning the growth is slowing down.
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I bring my wheels to a tire dealer down the street from me and he charges $20 per wheel, balanced.
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Just like anyone, I look for a good deal and buy stuff online all the time. However, sometimes I am willing to pay more for good service.
When it comes to my Connie, I usually buy locally. My dealer went out of business last year and the next nearest dealer is horrible!
Lucky for me the service manager and his boyhood friend who also turned wrenches there opened up their own shop doing service and repairs. They are the most talented bike techs I ever met and they are honest guys. I just had a ton of maintenance work done on my c14 which included tires. I wanted Conti road attack II's but his distributor did not carry them. He said he could get them but they might be pricier than other brands since he had to get them elsewhere. I explained that I was willing to pay for some mark-up because the bottom line was that if he only relied on labor to pay the lease, bills, insurance, lights, heat, etc that he and his partner would likely not be in business very long.
Not only would I hate to see them close but I also have a stake in making sure he stays open. I don't want to have to find another mechanic that I can trust.
Owning and running a motorcycle business can be tough. Think about it. At least here in New England, you basically have about 8 months maximum business. When it is cold nobody comes in the door. Motorcycle sales are down in this recession and the margin on most brands is rather low. No dealer can make it by just selling bikes and some gear so they need to make money in service. People think every dollar paid between wholesale and retail is profit! It is not. You need to pay the following........
Lease or mortgage on building
Taxes on the building if owned
Heat
Electricity
Building maintenance and upkeep
Payroll for staff, mechanics, parts counter, sales, etc
Payroll taxes. (Did you know every dollar the employee pays in federal tax is matched and paid to the IRS by the employer too?)
Workers compensation insurance
Medical insurance for staff
Vacation pay
Sick pay
An accountant or book keeper
Signage
Company taxes on profit to state and feds
Advertising
Telephone and internet
And I am sure there are some big things I am missing
So the bottom line is that if a dealer or shop only charges you labor and does not mark up parts they will probably close shop. I am willing to pay more in these instances so long as I am not getting royally shafted. For me those tires were $325 online. I was fine paying $385 because I knew he would take care properly mounting and balancing them for me too.
I definitely want to support a local business. Thing is that the local honda shop did not carry the Shinko brand at all. They did have PR3 and the Angels, but I wanted to try out the cheaper alternative because I do not drive aggressively at all. That shop is very inconsistent depending on who you talk. Last year, they did my little KZ250 tires - tires were mine, but tubes were theirs. And threw in a can of lube for free to lube the speedo and other stuff. But then few years before that, they won't touch a Honday CB750 I had to sync the carbs. Just two months back, they serviced my newphew's Honda Sabre 1100. But he lost his key and wanted to know if they can get the code from the ingnition box and make a key, they won't touch it even with a 10 foot pole. I think I am definitely done giving business to that place.
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People think every dollar paid between wholesale and retail is profit! It is not. You need to pay the following........
Lease or mortgage on building
Taxes on the building if owned
Heat
Electricity
Building maintenance and upkeep
Payroll for staff, mechanics, parts counter, sales, etc
Payroll taxes. (Did you know every dollar the employee pays in federal tax is matched and paid to the IRS by the employer too?)
Workers compensation insurance
Medical insurance for staff
Vacation pay
Sick pay
An accountant or book keeper
Signage
Company taxes on profit to state and feds
Advertising
Telephone and internet
And I am sure there are some big things I am missing
So the bottom line is that if a dealer or shop only charges you labor and does not mark up parts they will probably close shop. I am willing to pay more in these instances so long as I am not getting royally shafted. For me those tires were $325 online. I was fine paying $385 because I knew he would take care properly mounting and balancing them for me too.
Internet based business typically have these expenses also... I'm just saying - there aint no silver bullet.
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Internet based business typically have these expenses also... I'm just saying - there aint no silver bullet.
That is true. However, Internet sales places usually have much lower expenses, since they have less staff and overhead. If you buy locally, you are still paying for shipping (built into the cost), but usually have to pay sales tax (because 99% of people illegally neglect to report Internet sales on their state income tax) which is a turn-off for many. So Internet based sales can easily undercut most any brick-and-mortar (local) store.
But, again, lots of people (myself included) recognize the higher expense of local dealers and the better service, lower risk, and quicker access (if they stock it) and are willing to pay more for those factors. My issue is with dealers and stores that think they can charge 25, 33, or even 50% more than what I can buy online with a few clicks from a reputable on-line store and have at my door in a few days.
I tell you what really burns my butt is when I go into someplace like Best Buy and all they have is a "non-working demo" of something, or it is otherwise non-functional (missing parts, no batteries, no remote, no memory card), or they don't carry the model I want, or they are just out of stock. And then they complain about online retailers ruining them! The reason I want to go to a local store is to see, feel, try some kind of equipment, make real comparisons, and buy it right then. Or sometimes even maybe talking to someone that might know something about the products (I know, that is a laugh). If I can't do any of that (which seems to be the case more often than not, nowadays), then why bother going to a local store?
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The reason there are non-working demo's are missing parts is theft and vandalism.
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When I change m/c tires, I pay attention to the inside of the tire carcass to see where there's any overlap of belts and rubber. That's where your tire is going to be the heaviest, regardless of any painted dot.
I align that area directly opposite of the valve stem, and remove all the previous weights from the rim. The results are almost always little or no weight required to balance. 8)
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The reason there are non-working demo's are missing parts is theft and vandalism.
That is part of it. But another reason is that there was never a real working thing to begin with. For example- I go to a store to look at phones. In most cases, they are all fake! Exactly what can I learn from a "fake" phone? The outer dimensions?
Headphones- all sealed in that damn clamshell stuff. Great, so I can't tell how they fit, what they weigh, what they sound like, how they feel. It is no different than looking at a picture on a website!
Tablet- glued to a display rack and stuck in some demo mode that doesn't allow any real app to run or any decent interaction. Can't even hold it to see how it feels or what it weighs. Can't test speakers. Pretty much useless.
Sorry for the ranting, this just touches a nerve for me ;)
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Internet based business typically have these expenses also... I'm just saying - there aint no silver bullet.
Yes they do but they also sell to the entire country, not just some local area on a map. They offer lower prices because they sell volume. It is pretty hard to compete when a website sells online at large volume levels and gets to sell it to you tax free.
Google Best Buy News for another example of the web versus brick and mortar retail. There is a good chance Best Buy stores will be gone in a few years. Yes, some of their issues are mismanagement but most of it is increased internet competition. So many people walk in there to see a product then go home and Google the item for the best available price.
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Yes they do but they also sell to the entire country, not just some local area on a map. They offer lower prices because they sell volume. It is pretty hard to compete when a website sells online at large volume levels and gets to sell it to you tax free.
Google Best Buy News for another example of the web versus brick and mortar retail. There is a good chance Best Buy stores will be gone in a few years. Yes, some of their issues are mismanagement but most of it is increased internet competition. So many people walk in there to see a product then go home and Google the item for the best available price.
They will all be gone in two years. When you order directly from the warehouse, you save the expense of the retail building and everything in it. The only way Best Buy can be competitive is to do enough volume that the mfg. delivers direct. Right now Best Buy is getting too many items via UPS and freight, just like you get them when you order on the internet.
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That is part of it. But another reason is that there was never a real working thing to begin with. For example- I go to a store to look at phones. In most cases, they are all fake! Exactly what can I learn from a "fake" phone? The outer dimensions?
Headphones- all sealed in that damn clamshell stuff. Great, so I can't tell how they fit, what they weigh, what they sound like, how they feel. It is no different than looking at a picture on a website!
Tablet- glued to a display rack and stuck in some demo mode that doesn't allow any real app to run or any decent interaction. Can't even hold it to see how it feels or what it weighs. Can't test speakers. Pretty much useless.
Sorry for the ranting, this just touches a nerve for me ;)
NP, what you're missing is that it is still caused by theft and vandalism. Real, functioning products get destroyed and stolen, so they are replaced with dummy products and/or receive extra protection.
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2 jack stands with your axle spanned across them (with the wheel on) will work too.
Makes a nice and cheap balancing stand.
Tried this method. Does not show that the wheel is heavy on one side or the other. Not sure if that is good enough or if I should take find someone to do that.
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Tried this method. Does not show that the wheel is heavy on one side or the other. Not sure if that is good enough or if I should take find someone to do that.
You can make your own balancer fairly easy but they really aren't that unreasonable online. I purchased a Cycle Hill tire machine when I purchaesd my Connie.. I mount and balance my own tires, couldn't stand the thought of paying more for the tires then paying for the dealer to mount and balance. If you go to Cycle Hill's site (cheap brother of the NO-MAR) they have the balancing axles and cones. I made a stand out of wood and roller skate wheels that works fabulously....
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Yes they do but they also sell to the entire country, not just some local area on a map. They offer lower prices because they sell volume. It is pretty hard to compete when a website sells online at large volume levels and gets to sell it to you tax free.
Google Best Buy News for another example of the web versus brick and mortar retail. There is a good chance Best Buy stores will be gone in a few years. Yes, some of their issues are mismanagement but most of it is increased internet competition. So many people walk in there to see a product then go home and Google the item for the best available price.
Best buy is a perfect example of a store that has not figured out how to sell their products against internet discounters. I went in there about a month ago to look at stereo receivers. Interestingly enough, I discovered that my local Fry's and Best Buy have the same price on receivers as the on-lines discounters. I wanted to see how certain features worked on the unit I was looking at so I didn't make the same mistake I made on my last receiver purchase.
I went down to my local store and found the model I wanted to see. I found out that none of their receivers was plugged in, and where they had the floor models on display, they didn't even have a place to plug them in. He carried it across the store to plug it into a column outlet, but still no way to hook it up to speakers. I asked a couple of basic questions and found he didn't know a damn thing about it. I would gladly have paid a 5-10% premium plus tax, but I was so pissed off I ordered it on-line.
My Honda dealer gives me a courtesy discount on most accessories that gets me very close to, if not right at the price I can buy on-line. I still mail order things that they don't carry except clothes. I buy my riding clothes from them even if they have to order them because they will gladly allow me to try them on before I buy, which saves me the hassles of returning if I buy on-line and they don't fit.
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I know others have stated this as well, but I have had good luck calling local shops and asking them to match or at least come close to online prices. They still get their labor rates so they are usually happy. I find its best bet is to call them and be polite but firm on the tire price itself. Don't send a snippy email or you'll get ignored or a snippy response. I also don't expect shops to match sketchy sites, but a local shop around here will match motorcycle-superstore.com's sale prices which is usually pretty darn good.
I like to shop local too, but some of the shops around here drive me crazy. There is one that charges well above MSRP on most gear, doesn't have the correct sizes, asks you to pay up front and if it doesn't fit, they still expect you to cover a restocking fee. Sorry, in that case, I'll shop online.
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Tried this method. Does not show that the wheel is heavy on one side or the other. Not sure if that is good enough or if I should take find someone to do that.
Your actual bearings can be well greased and cause a little too much friction. You want mostly dry bearings with very light lubricant for balancing. Never done it myself but have heard you can buy a set of normal bearings, remove the seal and wipe off all the grease. With the right bearings such as the set from marcparns.com I just let the wheel go, give it no spin and the heavy side will go to the bottom and the wheel will rock back and forth for awhile.
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I take mine to a local Tyre place. http://www.universal-tyres.co.uk (http://www.universal-tyres.co.uk)
They do car, van, truck and motorcycle tyres.
I get a front PR3 fitted to a loose rim with a new Schraeder core for £130.
Rear costs £160.
I take my car there too.
What many of the dealers miss out on is building a relationship.
When you come in for the tyres they need to chat to you while doing your tyres.
If you become a regular customer they can offer you a coffee while you wait.
If the dealer treated you well when doing your tyres, you would probably go there for your servicing, parts, and one day for a new bike.
It's their loss, not yours.
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I take mine to a local Tyre place. http://www.universal-tyres.co.uk (http://www.universal-tyres.co.uk)
They do car, van, truck and motorcycle tyres.
I get a front PR3 fitted to a loose rim with a new Schraeder core for £130.
Rear costs £160.
I take my car there too.
What many of the dealers miss out on is building a relationship.
When you come in for the tyres they need to chat to you while doing your tyres.
If you become a regular customer they can offer you a coffee while you wait.
If the dealer treated you well when doing your tyres, you would probably go there for your servicing, parts, and one day for a new bike.
It's their loss, not yours.
That comes to $465 in dollars, if you pull the wheels and take them there, and buy their tires.... Seems a bit high.
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Just had two tires mounted that I bought off the internet, so I shopped.
One Kawa shop 10 miles away quoted 1 hour shop time per wheel if I drove over and $400 for a valve adjustment. That was about $130 for the tires alone. No deal. I did the valve adjustment and used the savings to buy tires (BT-045s for $197 delivered to my desk).
Second shop (Kawa,Honda, Can-Am, watercraft) didn't want to quote me and reluctantly called me back. They had already screwed up a valve adjustment a year or so ago ($250), refused to wait on me in the parts dept twice, and told me the Connie took two quarts of coolant (wouldn't look it up). No deal-ever again, I hate it, but why pay big bucks to screw up what I can screw alone?
Third dealer (30 miles away) charged me $40/wheel while I waited, ate lunch in their cafe, shopped for bikes, gear, etc, and they fixed my fork brace (left too tight from the last time they changed my tires) at no charge. I kept the old front Storm and was out the door for $73. They win. Next time, too. They're Riders Hill in Dahlonega, GA. THey deserve your business. My $.02.
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That comes to $465 in dollars, if you pull the wheels and take them there, and buy their tires.... Seems a bit high.
Try living here where gas costs £1.45 per litre ($2.34 per litre, $8.90 per US Gallon) and a gallon of branded semi-synth 10W40 costs $50. Trust me that's a reasonable price. I can get cheaper tyres if I buy online but then I would lose out due to the cost of fitting. With the PR3s they also throw in 3 months free puncture insurance.
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Talked to a shop here around Houston that will not change a tire that was bought on the internet. He said many tires bought on the internet from discount places have possible defects, and that they (the shop) didn't want the liability if anything were to happen.
I'd be willing to bet that there was an article in a trade magazine, or somehow the dealers are all in this together. I've heard it several times. It's total B.S.! I've heard it so many times it rediculous. I told the shop manager once "I'm going to try elsewhere, and he said "good luck" and grinned. It was like he knew that I would have no luck.
I DID have luck, and NOW have a great dealer just down the street. I understand the 'cost' and shipping and all that stuff. Really I do. I just want to understand how I can get tires on the internet, PAY UPS to send them to me, pay 100 bucks to have them mounted, and IT'S STILL 150-200 dollars cheaper than buying tires at the dealer.
Why are they so high? I don't mind shopping locally, but there is a limit.
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i try to support my local dealer when i can. because if you buy everything online to save a buck or two then pretty soon your local dealer will not be there.im not going to get ripped off, and purchase some items online but if my dealer is pretty close on price ill let him make a buck.sometimes he comes in cheaper,and he realy wants my buisness.that means alot to me i work hard for my money and like to give it to someone that supports the local economy and cares if im happy or have a problem.
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FWIW....I ordered a rear PR II from Dennis Kirk online. After placing the order I started to look at my front tire and figured that I might as well replace it prior to a planned 3000 mile trip in about a month.
I took the new tire and rear wheel to Cycle Gear. He quoted me $30 to mount and balance it. While I was BSing with him he priced out a new front PR II (just a little more then DK). He told me if I ordered the front from them that he would charge me $20 to mount the rear and $20 for the front.
I realize that not everyone has a local Cycle Gear, but for those that do, it might be an option.
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I realize that not everyone has a local Cycle Gear, but for those that do, it might be an option.
We have a cycle gear. And, ironically, it is next door to my dealer. I have been in there before, but I did not see any "shop" and wasn't aware they even offer tire mounting/balancing/installation. Are you sure all stores do this?
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Not sure that they "all" do this. Our local CG doesn't have a shop either. I wanted to see the tire that they had removed (I had plugged the tire and wanted to see it from the inside of the tire). They took me into a small backroom. I did not see a real shop there.
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Try living here where gas costs £1.45 per litre ($2.34 per litre, $8.90 per US Gallon) and a gallon of branded semi-synth 10W40 costs $50. Trust me that's a reasonable price. I can get cheaper tyres if I buy online but then I would lose out due to the cost of fitting. With the PR3s they also throw in 3 months free puncture insurance.
I was stationed near Ipswich during the early 70's, when the exchange rate was worse. Sux
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Which base?
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Which base?
RAF Bentwaters
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Ahh, Rendlesham area. Airfield is still there but run as a business/private airfield.
Woodbridge is the other one nearby, and Martlesham Heath (Now British Telecom R&D).
One thing we will never be short of is old airfields.
There is one about every 10 miles in the south-east of England.
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We have a cycle gear. And, ironically, it is next door to my dealer. I have been in there before, but I did not see any "shop" and wasn't aware they even offer tire mounting/balancing/installation. Are you sure all stores do this?
When I dropped off my front wheel today I asked. I was told that ALL Cycle Gear Stores will mount tires...FWIW
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So this guy pulls his pick-em-up in my driveway a couple of weeks ago. He's got this Hugh Jass chest freezer in the back and a little Honda generator running it (I guess). Definitely a low budget affair. No store front, one salesman, ...
He knocks on my door, asks me if I want to buy some steaks. I said "no". He says they're the same steaks he sells to Oscar Blues down the road. So I ask "how much?". He says "$4.95 for an 8oz sirloin." I says "I'd like ten, now be off with you."
I know Oscar Blues serves up some of the finest beef in these parts, and some pretty good suds to boot. You can buy their suds in the liquid store much 'mo cheaper than they sell it by the glass. Now I got's me some of their steaks too :)
Last week I headed down for dinner at Oscar's, I brought two of my Oscar Blues steaks for them to toss on the grill for me. I couldn't understand why they said no...
Rick
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So this guy pulls his pick-em-up in my driveway a couple of weeks ago. He's got this Hugh Jass chest freezer in the back and a little Honda generator running it (I guess). Definitely a low budget affair. No store front, one salesman, ...
He knocks on my door, asks me if I want to buy some steaks. I said "no". He says they're the same steaks he sells to Oscar Blues down the road. So I ask "how much?". He says "$4.95 for an 8oz sirloin." I says "I'd like ten, now be off with you."
I know Oscar Blues serves up some of the finest beef in these parts, and some pretty good suds to boot. You can buy their suds in the liquid store much 'mo cheaper than they sell it by the glass. Now I got's me some of their steaks too :)
Last week I headed down for dinner at Oscar's, I brought two of my Oscar Blues steaks for them to toss on the grill for me. I couldn't understand why they said no...
Rick
So you think the point is the same? Motorcycle dealer service shops are paid to work on bikes. If you are willing on paying them to work on a tire you already have why wouldn't they?
Let's ask this question another way. Are you one of those people who would be okay for a dealer to not work on your bike because you didn't buy it there?
The only reason dealers don't want to install parts not bought there is because they are being dicks about the fact that they don't want to compete against internet businesses. They have the right to do so, but we have the right to be dicks right back and go elsewhere. We are willing on paying them a fair labor rate that will make a profit for them, and mounting a name brand tire does not add any liability to them. In fact, you should know that they frequently buy their tires from the same places we can buy them from ourselves, but they get a dealer discount.
Like I said in an earlier post, they would do a whole lot better using a positive approach and asking you to work with them next time on buying the parts/accessories, and taking great care of you on the service end. I've actually had more than one dealer take this approach, and because of it they scored big points with me.
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So this guy pulls his pick-em-up in my driveway a couple of weeks ago. He's got this Hugh Jass chest freezer in the back and a little Honda generator running it (I guess). Definitely a low budget affair. No store front, one salesman, ...
He knocks on my door, asks me if I want to buy some steaks. I said "no". He says they're the same steaks he sells to Oscar Blues down the road. So I ask "how much?". He says "$4.95 for an 8oz sirloin." I says "I'd like ten, now be off with you."
I know Oscar Blues serves up some of the finest beef in these parts, and some pretty good suds to boot. You can buy their suds in the liquid store much 'mo cheaper than they sell it by the glass. Now I got's me some of their steaks too :)
Last week I headed down for dinner at Oscar's, I brought two of my Oscar Blues steaks for them to toss on the grill for me. I couldn't understand why they said no...
Rick
Need to come up with a better comparison if you are trying to prove a point. That comparison just does not compute, except in the funny pages.
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Some dealers don't want to install parts they didn't sell because they want to use a business model from the 1950's. Same old tired business plan. They don't want to accept that the world has changed (the Internet and computer technology) drastically since the 1950's. They still expect you to drive all the way to their store so some under-paid, inexperienced kid can take his time trying to look up the parts you want, while other customers impatiently wait in line. Then they want you to pay full price (or more) and then they ORDER your part and make you drive BACK to their store a week (or more) later to pick it up.
These motorcycle shops remind me of radio stations that still play 10 songs and 50 commercials an hour while some DJ yammers on incessantly in-between like you can't play Satellite Radio or your MP3 player in your car. Time marches on and companies that refuse to change are like people trying to sell buggy whips !!
Go to a dealer that is willing to accept reality or buy the equipment and do it yourself -- that is the purpose of this forum -- to share information with each other so we don't have to put up with that type of ancient BS.
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So you think the point is the same? Motorcycle dealer service shops are paid to work on bikes. If you are willing on paying them to work on a tire you already have why wouldn't they?
Let's ask this question another way. Are you one of those people who would be okay for a dealer to not work on your bike because you didn't buy it there?
The only reason dealers don't want to install parts not bought there is because they are being dicks about the fact that they don't want to compete against internet businesses. They have the right to do so, but we have the right to be dicks right back and go elsewhere. We are willing on paying them a fair labor rate that will make a profit for them, and mounting a name brand tire does not add any liability to them. In fact, you should know that they frequently buy their tires from the same places we can buy them from ourselves, but they get a dealer discount.
Like I said in an earlier post, they would do a whole lot better using a positive approach and asking you to work with them next time on buying the parts/accessories, and taking great care of you on the service end. I've actually had more than one dealer take this approach, and because of it they scored big points with me.
I have a couple of questions...
"mounting a name brand tire does not add any liability to them"
You are technically correct, but, why would any business enter into a business arrangement that did add liability? What it does is add "potential liability"...scratched wheel, lost bolt or nut, etc...and, while these are easily handled at the dealer level, the biggie - a catastrophic loss of air pressure while riding causing bodily injury...now becomes a potential that the shop must have insurance to cover...I mean, think about it...would a doctor, or nurse, inject you with medicine you bought elsewhere?
So, in most cases, the dealership is faced with this challenge: Who changes the tires? And, how much do we pay them? Does the seasoned mechanic with years of experience get the call because of his ability to do the job right without causing any damage or losing any parts in the process? With twenty years of experience in the industry, and all his acquired knowledge, should he be pulled away from the technical repair that he is working on, and, I might add, that he is the only one in the shop capable of doing correctly? And, if he is being paid a reasonable wage (commission), you need to understand that he will not make as much for changing a tire (50% commission for $70 per hour shop rate is more than 50% commission for a $40 tire change)...so, as his earnings go down, he will begin to look elsewhere for work...
Or, should the high school kid who rides a KX125 change the tire on your Concours 14 (or Goldwing!) when he comes in this afternoon? The shop can afford to pay him $8 or $9 bucks an hour to do the job...right?
"you should know that they frequently buy their tires from the same places we can buy them from ourselves, but they get a dealer discount."
Actually, that is incorrect. Most dealerships have accounts with distributors that DO NOT SELL TO THE PUBLIC! Motorcycle Superstore is a competitor to your local franchised shop...they buy from the same places so they can sell to their customers...us! The two biggest factors, however, are the size of their orders...most franchised shops rarely order $25,000 of tires at a time...while a large internet seller regularly might order $100,000 or more in tires on a single order...which one do you think gets better pricing?
"The only reason dealers don't want to install parts not bought there is because they are being dicks about the fact that they don't want to compete against internet businesses."
Don't forget about the less than fair laws regarding sales tax that penalize your local shops by collecting state and local sales taxes from them...but, not from the internet sellers...most shops just want a FAIR CHANCE at gaining your business...nuff said here?
"Like I said in an earlier post, they would do a whole lot better using a positive approach and asking you to work with them next time on buying the parts/accessories, and taking great care of you on the service end. I've actually had more than one dealer take this approach, and because of it they scored big points with me."
I AGREE WITH YOU 100% ON THIS!!!!!
But...understand...it is a two way street...and WE have to meet somewhere towards the middle!
Times are changing the business climate. It isn't a simple answer to a simple question. And, they aren't new questions, either. But, it is important to our sport, and our industry, to keep the conversation alive...
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You are technically correct, but, why would any business enter into a business arrangement that did add liability? What it does is add "potential liability"...scratched wheel, lost bolt or nut, etc...and, while these are easily handled at the dealer level, the biggie - a catastrophic loss of air pressure while riding causing bodily injury...now becomes a potential that the shop must have insurance to cover...I mean, think about it...would a doctor, or nurse, inject you with medicine you bought elsewhere?
It is not like they have to buy EXTRA insurance to cover mounting tires that were not purchased there. The insurance cost is built into the labor/shop as overhead. Shops can perform all kinds of repairs to motor vehicles that require no parts to be purchased and if something goes wrong, can cause damage to the vehicle or occupants. If necessary, a shop could charge an extra $10 to mount/balance tires that were not purchased there, that would cover any additional liability. The liability excuse just doesn't float for me, it is just a way they try to strong-arm people into buying from them. And like I said before, if they are reasonably competitive on tire pricing, most people will be perfectly willing to purchase them from the same place that would mount/balance them.
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So this guy pulls his pick-em-up in my driveway a couple of weeks ago. He's got this Hugh Jass chest freezer in the back and a little Honda generator running it (I guess). Definitely a low budget affair. No store front, one salesman, ...
He knocks on my door, asks me if I want to buy some steaks. I said "no". He says they're the same steaks he sells to Oscar Blues down the road. So I ask "how much?". He says "$4.95 for an 8oz sirloin." I says "I'd like ten, now be off with you."
I know Oscar Blues serves up some of the finest beef in these parts, and some pretty good suds to boot. You can buy their suds in the liquid store much 'mo cheaper than they sell it by the glass. Now I got's me some of their steaks too :)
Last week I headed down for dinner at Oscar's, I brought two of my Oscar Blues steaks for them to toss on the grill for me. I couldn't understand why they said no...
Rick
:rotflmao: :goodpost: :thumbs:
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It is not like they have to buy EXTRA insurance to cover mounting tires that were not purchased there. The insurance cost is built into the labor/shop as overhead. Shops can perform all kinds of repairs to motor vehicles that require no parts to be purchased and if something goes wrong, can cause damage to the vehicle or occupants. If necessary, a shop could charge an extra $10 to mount/balance tires that were not purchased there, that would cover any additional liability. The liability excuse just doesn't float for me, it is just a way they try to strong-arm people into buying from them. And like I said before, if they are reasonably competitive on tire pricing, most people will be perfectly willing to purchase them from the same place that would mount/balance them.
Agreed...right now I feel like $10 would be an acceptable "upcharge"...if that is the way a shop chose to address it...sure, it would still PO some of us...but, it would be more acceptable than "twice the price if you didn't buy the tires from us"...or, "we just won't do it!"...which is where some shops are still fixed...but, at the end of the day...when the accountant and the business owner see dwindling profitability (zero dollars profit from a tire bought online) in certain areas relative to ever increasing costs (insurance, in this case)...changes will have to be made to remain in business...several independent shops have chosen to close their service departments altogether...they are much wiser than I regarding their P&Ls...but, I doubt their decisions were made because their service departments were making them too much profit with very little overhead...and I do agree with you about "competitive pricing and service"...that is where the challenge lies...where is that middle ground we can agree upon?
While the shop might not (I think it depends on their provider) have to buy additional insurance for carry-in items...since the tire manufacturers have a pretty hefty policy anyway...and the vehicle manufacturers require coverage also...not to mention the sensible business protection aspect...the "added potential risk" would fall into the period of time the tire (and, I'm talking about a worst case scenario here) was not in a "controlled environment"...the secure channel from the manufacturer...to the distributor...to the seller...so, I'm talking about the time between when the seller ships the tire, and when it is presented to the shop for mounting...at this point, nobody can tell what, if anything has happened that might affect the tire...that is the open door for "added potential risk"...and, you won't find anybody clamoring to be first in line to offer protection...the shop will probably have to pay their attorneys to represent them if this becomes an issue...like previously stated...not a sure cost...but a "potential" cost...which a business owner has a right and a responsibility to protect himself against...
Like I said...it's a changing business climate in the motorcycle business...some will change...and some won't.
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My dealer isn't shy about the fact that they order from Drag Specialties when I asked about matching a price on Jake Wilson they said that it was no problem. My next set of tires will be bought from my dealer since they understand that fair pricing will bring more customers through the door.
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I have a couple of questions...
"mounting a name brand tire does not add any liability to them"
You are technically correct, but, why would any business enter into a business arrangement that did add liability? What it does is add "potential liability"...scratched wheel, lost bolt or nut, etc...and, while these are easily handled at the dealer level, the biggie - a catastrophic loss of air pressure while riding causing bodily injury...now becomes a potential that the shop must have insurance to cover...I mean, think about it...would a doctor, or nurse, inject you with medicine you bought elsewhere?
So, in most cases, the dealership is faced with this challenge: Who changes the tires? And, how much do we pay them? Does the seasoned mechanic with years of experience get the call because of his ability to do the job right without causing any damage or losing any parts in the process? With twenty years of experience in the industry, and all his acquired knowledge, should he be pulled away from the technical repair that he is working on, and, I might add, that he is the only one in the shop capable of doing correctly? And, if he is being paid a reasonable wage (commission), you need to understand that he will not make as much for changing a tire (50% commission for $70 per hour shop rate is more than 50% commission for a $40 tire change)...so, as his earnings go down, he will begin to look elsewhere for work...
Or, should the high school kid who rides a KX125 change the tire on your Concours 14 (or Goldwing!) when he comes in this afternoon? The shop can afford to pay him $8 or $9 bucks an hour to do the job...right?
"you should know that they frequently buy their tires from the same places we can buy them from ourselves, but they get a dealer discount."
Actually, that is incorrect. Most dealerships have accounts with distributors that DO NOT SELL TO THE PUBLIC! Motorcycle Superstore is a competitor to your local franchised shop...they buy from the same places so they can sell to their customers...us! The two biggest factors, however, are the size of their orders...most franchised shops rarely order $25,000 of tires at a time...while a large internet seller regularly might order $100,000 or more in tires on a single order...which one do you think gets better pricing?
"The only reason dealers don't want to install parts not bought there is because they are being dicks about the fact that they don't want to compete against internet businesses."
Don't forget about the less than fair laws regarding sales tax that penalize your local shops by collecting state and local sales taxes from them...but, not from the internet sellers...most shops just want a FAIR CHANCE at gaining your business...nuff said here?
"Like I said in an earlier post, they would do a whole lot better using a positive approach and asking you to work with them next time on buying the parts/accessories, and taking great care of you on the service end. I've actually had more than one dealer take this approach, and because of it they scored big points with me."
I AGREE WITH YOU 100% ON THIS!!!!!
But...understand...it is a two way street...and WE have to meet somewhere towards the middle!
Times are changing the business climate. It isn't a simple answer to a simple question. And, they aren't new questions, either. But, it is important to our sport, and our industry, to keep the conversation alive...
They are in the business of servicing motorcycles. If they want to be in that business, they have to take the good with the not so good. I'm in a business that I'm responsible for many millions of dollars of business with one very large customer. We sell stuff every day at a loss, but overall we make a fair profit. While the magnitude of working on a motorcycle is different, the comparison is the same. How do they expect us to come in for an engine rebuild job when they have pissed us off by not mounting a tire.
I've already addressed the "meeting in the middle" issue. I meet vendors in the middle all the time, but they have to act like they actually value my business somewhere along the way.
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OK...
OK...
OK...
That there is funny! I don't care who you are! :rotflmao:
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That there is funny! I don't care who you are! :rotflmao:
?
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?
Seriously...I guess it's just different businesses using and justifying different means to make a "fair profit"...
I thought it was pretty funny... ;D
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Harbor Fright has balancers for cheap as well as chain breakers/stakers for the exorbitant price of $12.00 .
F.
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I woudl have been willing to meet a dealer in the middle on my last set of tires. However, they wanted 199.00 for the front tire plus 40.00 to mount and balance. Thats with me doing the hard job of removing the rim from the bike and driving it in. When were that far apart, I dont ask.
I went over to Rocky Mountain ATV and bought my tires. They have a large building, with people working. Just like the local dealer, really.