Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: dolomoto on January 26, 2015, 06:00:51 PM
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(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Concours-14-pics/i-DSZhRzC/0/L/IMG_20150126_175120023-L.jpg)
I had to trim the rubber weather collar but otherwise they went on fine.
Here you can see the part that had to be trimmed on account the "base" of the LED module did not have enough clearance.
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Concours-14-pics/i-w8SPgQP/0/L/IMG_20150126_165848453_HDR-L.jpg)
The base fits into the bracket, I'd forgotten how much I hate that wire keeper on the rear of so many headlights; the base is on backwards in this photo. I fixed it.
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Concours-14-pics/i-4KBnxg6/0/L/IMG_20150126_165921080-L.jpg)
The collar was trimmed to give the module more clearance (to mate with the base).
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Concours-14-pics/i-Lw4X9wf/0/L/IMG_20150126_170038487_HDR-L.jpg)
It still wouldn't go back together so I trimmed some more. You can see what I cut off beside the collar. Now it fit together.
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Concours-14-pics/i-Sw2F9xH/0/L/IMG_20150126_170631819_HDR-L.jpg)
The LED module has two tabs, one is wider than the other. Noting the orientation of these tabs in relation to the base (which is already installed) makes things much easier. I looked in from the front of the bike (thru the headlight lens).
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Concours-14-pics/i-p6Zrg5F/0/L/IMG_20150126_172959518_HDR-L.jpg)
Before this conversion, I ran Wagner Halogens in 80/100W. The bulb on the left (riders right) is the Wagner. The new LED module is installed on the other side.
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Concours-14-pics/i-F3dVt5P/0/L/IMG_20150126_170333256_HDR-L.jpg)
High beam with the new LED modules on both sides:
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Concours-14-pics/i-gkRwwnq/0/L/IMG_20150126_170348738_HDR-L.jpg)
Low beam:
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Concours-14-pics/i-pft7ms9/0/L/IMG_20150126_190538712-L.jpg)
High beam:
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Concours-14-pics/i-n4bLRjh/0/L/IMG_20150126_190545197-L.jpg)
http://youtu.be/lM0M4b2UgT8 (http://youtu.be/lM0M4b2UgT8)
There was a camera effect when switching from low to high and then back to low beam.
The modules are $65 each and arrived in about a week.
https://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/3800-Lumen-H4-LED-Headlight-bulb-_p_83.html (https://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/3800-Lumen-H4-LED-Headlight-bulb-_p_83.html)
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Sweet! Thanks for posting I was waiting to see somebody else do this and post more details before I did it myself. Are you happy with the lights? Are they (to you) more powerful during the night time ride allowing more visibility (I.E. are they worth it)? Thanks!
Mike
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I have zero miles with them so far. I'll get a couple of hundred miles in this week.
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Sweet! The real test will be at night, beam focus, etc. Let us know how it works out.
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Interesting, thanks for the photos and info! LED technology is really advancing. I fear the LED replacements will have the same issues as the HID replacements- focus/beam/pattern/scatter. Some day I very much want to switch my mediocre HID-with-stock-reflectors to projectors- probably LED too.
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had these in my cart, waiting for your feedback now.
how does the cut look on the wall ?? seem decent or scatter all over??
stock the cut is very straight and flat.
thanks!!
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Nice! Thanks for the write up. Would love to see a long term report.
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Nice write up and it seems like a very bright unit.
I do not want to dump on your new farkle but it looks like they put out a lot more glare than even the very high wattage bulbs you had in there previously. Both from the front of the bike but especially the photo of the car and house being illuminated: it looks like there is no cut- off like on low beam at all. Just going by the photos, it looks like those lights will be blinding to on-coming traffic.
When you ride at night and pass on coming cars, if you can see the driver's face clearly illuminated, it means you are blinding him / her also. Again, not to wizz in your corn flakes but those lights may be a bit too uncontrolled for use where there are other cars (in the desert, off road, they would be GREAT).
Brian
Before this conversion, I ran Wagner Halogens in 80/100W. The bulb on the left (riders right) is the Wagner. The new LED module is installed on the other side.[...]
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I fear the LED replacements will have the same issues as the HID replacements- focus/beam/pattern/scatter.
I thought (mine included) that the HIDs had a very similar pattern to the OEM bulbs. Granted they (HIDs) are brighter so if the outside is dirty there will be more light scatter, but I think HIDs replacements have a pretty good pattern. The LEDs seem to have plenty of light, but perhaps some adjustment (in and out {easy now}) in positioning using spacers or what not, to get the LEDs in the right focal spot for a better pattern is needed. It looks like they would be great for instant on auxiliary brights in an H4 housing.
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Hi
They look good, looking forwards to some feedback when you get some miles in.
I have just fitted HID projectors to mine, not finished putting it all back together.
Will post some pics and a vid once finished
Richard
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Just going by those photos, it looks like there is no cut-off line at all. HIDs absolutely leave a sharp cut-off line between high beam and low beam, and most of the cut-off is due to the shielding on the lamp itself (burner in the case of an HID), not the focal point of the reflector. Note that there is a very small sheet metal cover on the bottom of an HID H4 burner (that does not move) as well as the full, chromed sheet metal burner cover: these two things are what causes the cut- off line. I do not see anything like that at all on the LED that the OP shows. ??
Brian
I thought (mine included) that the HIDs had a very similar pattern to the OEM bulbs. Granted they (HIDs) are brighter so if the outside is dirty there will be more light scatter, but I think HIDs replacements have a pretty good pattern. The LEDs seem to have plenty of light, but perhaps some adjustment (in and out {easy now}) in positioning using spacers or what not, to get the LEDs in the right focal spot for a better pattern is needed. It looks like they would be great for instant on auxiliary brights in an H4 housing.
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Just going by those photos, it looks like there is no cut-off line at all. HIDs absolutely leave a sharp cut-off line between high beam and low beam, and most of the cut-off is due to the shielding on the lamp itself (burner in the case of an HID), not the focal point of the reflector. Note that there is a very small sheet metal cover on the bottom of an HID H4 burner (that does not move) as well as the full, chromed sheet metal burner cover: these two things are what causes the cut- off line. I do not see anything like that at all on the LED that the OP shows. ??
Exactly- I didn't see that either. Although LED's are very directional, the cutoff on a regular LED is far from sharp and can't possibly compare to any bulb with a shield. So I might have to revise what I said earlier- it might not be that they have just the same issues as the HID, but perhaps even MUCH worse. Attached is the [only] photo the seller provides- there doesn't appear to be any shield at all. (top attachment)
Compare to the second photo, which is an HID bulb with cut-off shield on top and nearly full cover shielding on the bottom (it allows only high-beam light to flood downward). The LED bulb appears to have bulbs on both sides, so there is also no cutoff or shaping of the high beam down-firing light either. Although that is far less important (since high-beams should never be used when there is traffic ahead of you).
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There is no cutoff. I don't think the glare is as bad as depicted on my pics, nobody flashed me on the way in this morning (darkness) nor this evening (twilight).
IIRC, ADVmonster LED modules have a cutoff (and are cheaper!) so that is another option.
So far, I like them and plan on keeping them.
As far as "beam pattern", I believe that is determined solely by the lens design. Different bulbs simply put more/less light into the lens coverage area. In this case, there is much more light in that area. The bulb on the (riders) left is a different orientation than the other by a few degrees, I think I can adjust it. As installed the LED's face up and down (vs. side to side).
YMMV.
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There is no cutoff. I don't think the glare is as bad as depicted on my pics, nobody flashed me on the way in this morning (darkness) nor this evening (twilight).
Actually, you will find that very few people will flash others. Times have changed and there is so much road rage, most people are afraid. Sad, but seemly true, based on my driving observations over the last 30 years.
As far as "beam pattern", I believe that is determined solely by the lens design. Different bulbs simply put more/less light into the lens coverage area.
Generally that is true, but there are areas of the reflector that were not meant to be used and all the rest of it was designed to be hit at one exact angle. If the light source is not the exactly the same as the design specification for the reflector (size of the source, location of the source, and directed output of the source) the pattern will change in ways not in the design. Plus, even the best of reflectors will still scatter some light in unintended directions, so if the intensity of the light is increased, the amount of unintended scatter light will also increase beyond the design threshold.
As nice as the design of the HID bulb I selected is, I have been disappointed in the results. In my case, the light output is certainly higher, but the *useful* part of the light is not much better than stock halogens. Or certainly not enough to justify the scatter side effects (which are absolutely real/true) and expense/effort. Too late now, but if I could do it all over, I would have waited for a better way... which is projector lenses- those designed to go with the light source. http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=16611.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=16611.0)
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I agree with Maxtog, and that's why I'm leaving mine alone. BUT would like a bulb with a little whiter light, but not at the expense of crapping out in a few thousand miles. Do any of you have good experience with such bulbs, like Sliver lights, hyper whites, etc? If not, will leave well alone. After adjusting my headlights yesterday, the low beams are not that great, but high beams have excellent coverage. Might try to raise the headlights a bit more, since they might still be low... but the high beams already light up perfectly. If I adjust the low beams higher, the high-beams will be lighting up the trees. Ha ha. Guess have to find a happy medium. Thank you in advance for your input.
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I do not believe that is correct. The cut- off line is created by masking the filament in the case of the original H4 lamp (just look at it: the low beam filament is totally shielded at the bottom and perhaps 1/2 of the sides) as well as blocking light from coming out directly from the lamp (black paint on the original H4, a metal cover on HIDs). The major difference between the low beam and high beam filaments of an H4 is that the low beam is shielded while the high beam is NOT shielded.
Again, going by your pictures, you have no cut- off and that will be blinding to anyone in front of your bike. I am not the 'light police' but IMO, casting that beam pattern is both rude as well as dangerous. Please take this (hopefully) constructive criticism in the manner it is extended: I am not saying you are a horrible person or anything like that. What I am saying is that throwing that light pattern is not a respectful and responsible social thing to do. And just like open exhaust pipes, it gives motorcycles and motorcyclists a bad reputation (what has three headlights and hurts your eyes as well as your ears..... rhetorical question).
And I am not picking on the legality of what you are doing either; I run HIDs myself and both of our headlights are equally illegal. But my HIDs do have a sharp cut- off line and I keep them aligned so they are always below oncoming driver's eyes (I adjust them as needed when carrying a passenger, heavily loaded bike, etc.).
The LED headlights are very interesting and thank you for posting your experience as well as pictures. I just do not think they are quite ready for use on public roads.
Brian
<snip>
As far as "beam pattern", I believe that is determined solely by the lens design. Different bulbs simply put more/less light into the lens coverage area. In this case, there is much more light in that area. The bulb on the (riders) left is a different orientation than the other by a few degrees, I think I can adjust it. As installed the LED's face up and down (vs. side to side).
YMMV.
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I agree with Maxtog, and that's why I'm leaving mine alone. BUT would like a bulb with a little whiter light, but not at the expense of crapping out in a few thousand miles. Do any of you have good experience with such bulbs, like Sliver lights, hyper whites, etc?
The Philips Xtreme Vision are pretty good. All those "whiter" bulbs are "fake", they just have a blue tint on the lowbeam filament. You can see it in the follow photo where I show the difference between the Philips Xtreme Vision halogen and the A&R HID shroud (which goes along with Brian's last post)
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The Philips Xtreme Vision are pretty good. All those "whiter" bulbs are "fake", they just have a blue tint on the lowbeam filament.
Thank you for posting that photo, and for your comments. And it's only common sense that the blue tint reduces light output, at least to some degree. Plus it might contribute to higher heat, which could be the reason they last less, no? Hmmm. Do those Philips Xtreme Vision have that tint? Do you rate them better than the Sylvania BrightStars (previously SilverStars, I think)? Thx.
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back in 09 I did a comparo with some Phillips bulbs Murph sent me, I compared them to OEM and also the NAPA 80/100's.
I found very little difference from the OEM, and a slight higher output (well, it should) from the 80/100's.
that said, Dolo's LED's are an awesome light for the bucks.. I say this because a pal bought the next lower priced lamp, installed in his DR650, and I'll say it t was bright, very bright, I saw shadows on the road from my body, when he was following me...
now, getting past the pricetag, I think I'd pick those up wayyy before going broke on HID lamps. no brainer.
I have seen these on the road, they are nice.
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(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2531924030015463693CjaDpE_fs.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2531924030015463693CjaDpE_fs.jpg.html)
Phillips, OEM, and NAPA 80/100
can you tell which was which? hint... OEM is on the left in all photos...
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2590044760015463693DOymge_fs.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2590044760015463693DOymge_fs.jpg.html)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2410634720015463693NNBRVL_fs.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2410634720015463693NNBRVL_fs.jpg.html)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2521657070015463693ZLCmFQ_fs.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2521657070015463693ZLCmFQ_fs.jpg.html)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2521657070015463693ZLCmFQ_fs.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2521657070015463693ZLCmFQ_fs.jpg.html)
my point is, the Big buck lamp was no better...
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Thank you for posting that photo, and for your comments. And it's only common sense that the blue tint reduces light output, at least to some degree. Plus it might contribute to higher heat, which could be the reason they last less, no? Hmmm. Do those Philips Xtreme Vision have that tint? Do you rate them better than the Sylvania BrightStars (previously SilverStars, I think)? Thx.
Yes, the Philips are tinted (you can see that in the photo I provided). All "whiter" hallogen bulbs are just using tint. Yes the tint might reduce the output slightly, but the bulbs are still a little brighter than stock somehow. The color is actually nice. Their being over-driven some, and the tint probably do contribute to the lower life that people report. I can't say anything about Sylvania because I have only used the Philips.
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I've tried the 'brighter' ones and they tend to burn out earlier than standard bulbs, at least with me. The standards are fine for me, but I don't run at night that much.
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I've tried the 'brighter' ones and they tend to burn out earlier than standard bulbs, at least with me. The standards are fine for me, but I don't run at night that much.
I also don't ride much at night, so will leave well alone. Will only install brighter 'city light' LEDs. Wanted to install LED turn-signals, but don't want to pierce any wiring with load-resistors, so will leave them alone as well.
Hey gang, does anybody have a chart with all the bulb types and voltages for the C14? I was surprised they're not listed in the owner's manual.
As a side comment, my 2015 owner's manual still lists a separate CA bike, so I'm sure I got one of those. Kawasaki's warehouse probably had a surplus of CA bikes, and sent my dealer one (waiting for confirmation from them, since it doesn't say anywhere). I know for a fact those bikes take into account the air routed to the intake from the solenoid (called a 'pump' on my bike) since my BMW started rev-hanging after removal, so one more thing to leave alone (at least for now). Might only just plug the Air Injection if I get afterburn with the TBR+P1X, and remove that at the first valve check. But will leave the Evaporative Emissions alone.
FInally, some bad news for 2015 owners who want the CopperDawg sport screen: Will have to order about $45 worth of parts to be able to install it. Ouch! But want a tinted screen, AND much more (clean) wind hitting me than with the barn-door stock windscreen, so it has to go. The only thing I don't want from a sport-tourer/tourer is the wind protection they provide up top ;D. Thankfully CopperDawg has a clean and much better-looking solution than just a cut-off screen. Have a good one folks.
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FInally, some bad news for 2015 owners who want the CopperDawg sport screen: Will have to order about $45 worth of parts to be able to install it.
Why would the installation be any different or require any different or additional parts than the 2010-2014?
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So judging from the pictures, there really is no "low/high" beam. Just a bright and brighter beam, correct? I've been looking at the LED conversions, but have had reservations about the low/high beam issue.
Thank you for posting the pictures, they are really helpful.
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Why would the installation be any different or require any different or additional parts than the 2010-2014?
Because CopperDawg designed it to reuse parts of the 2010-2014 windscreen, including the top 2 black plastic parts where the screen is screwed to the brackets. And due to the vent, the new windscreen has different parts. He listed all the parts needed somewhere here, I believe. The CopperDawg will cost me $500, and mine costs $700 from parts dealers. Hopefully I can sell it for $400 and recover most of the expense 8). If I can't sell it for something like that (it's brand new), would just keep it for resale time. Or for a cold trip. Have a good one.
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So judging from the pictures, there really is no "low/high" beam. Just a bright and brighter beam, correct? I've been looking at the LED conversions, but have had reservations about the low/high beam issue.
Thank you for posting the pictures, they are really helpful.
No. Like Halogen, the LED bulbs have two light positions; low beam. Like HID- the light sources should all be the same same brightness (on halogen, the two are different brightness). Unlike either, the LED bulb in this thread has three fixed light sources, not 1 like HID (which moves in two positions) or 2 like halogen. The two positions are what make high or low beam for two reasons- one: it changes the angle of the light on the top output and two: it allows light to shine down into the lower reflector (the high-beam-only reflector). See my attached photos I took for another thread for "proof".
But there are some unanswered questions to answer your next part. But I can make some reasonable assumptions: I will assume that in low beam, only the top/near-tip LED is on. On high beam, I will assume that the top/near-plug LED is on AND the bottom LED is on. If this is correct, then there could be twice as much light produced by the bulb on high beam as on low beam- but not in the same places.
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On each module, there are 4 LED's, 2 on top, 2 on bottom. Low beam has one LED lit on each side, high beam lights the remaining two.
Taking into account that most folks have not seen these in person, I am surprised at the strong feelings about the lack of a low beam cutoff.
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On each module, there are 4 LED's, 2 on top, 2 on bottom. Low beam has one LED lit on each side, high beam lights the remaining two.
OK, that is even stranger.
Taking into account that most folks have not seen these in person, I am surprised at the strong feelings about the lack of a low beam cutoff.
Theory is all we have (and theory is important). You need to supply photos of the beams on a light building from about 20 feet. Then we could speculate less :) Of course, a thorough examination in person is no substitute for photos.
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You are right of course, I (I will only speak for myself here, not 'others') have not seen these in person. I am going entirely by your photos of the headlight casting their beams on the house across the street with the car parked in the driveway. In the photo, there is as much light on the building at the level of the car's roof as there is on the ground in front of the motorcycle. Going further, I cannot see any cut-off line at all, whatsoever in the low beam photo; in fact it looks identical to the high beam photo.
Finally, you state that one LED on top and one LED on the bottom are used for low beam, and two top and bottom are used for high beam; that cannot possibly work correctly. The low beam reflector bucket is not designed to have any light at all projected downward when using the low beams. The downward projection of light will be reflected up above the level of the reflector itself and is by definition, glare. Look at the excellent photos others have provided in this very thread of halogen H4 lamps and you can easily see the shovel shaped shield that prevents ALL light from the tungsten filament from being projected downward. HIDs do the identical thing by using not one but a pair of shields to again prevent any light from shining on the lower half of the reflector when the low beams are used.
I would be more than happy to change my opinion given a photo of a stock H4 lamp in a C-14 against a white wall, clearly showing the cut- off line and then a photo of the same bike, same camera placement and same camera settings showing little additional light being thrown above the cut-off line. As I said, I do not see any cut-off line at all in the pictures you have posted in this thread. ??
I am not trying to insult you or knock you in any way, and I really do appreciate you bringing this tech. info. to the forum. I can form opinions and beliefs only by what I know to be facts as well as what I am shown and everything about those lights I am aware of, from your photos and your description of how they work, tells me they are not applicable for on- road driving. YMMV as always.
Brian
On each module, there are 4 LED's, 2 on top, 2 on bottom. Low beam has one LED lit on each side, high beam lights the remaining two.
Taking into account that most folks have not seen these in person, I am surprised at the strong feelings about the lack of a low beam cutoff.
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The low beam reflector bucket is not designed to have any light at all projected downward when using the low beams.
I know. Scary, isn't it? If it is burning an LED on top AND bottom on low beam, it is like having high beams on all the time. More photos needed!
The one that I provided is quite easy to make- tape a piece of paper tightly over the headlight shell and take a photo of it in low beam then in high beam (I probably should have mentioned that is how I got that photos of the "HIDcompare" above.) Depending on the camera, it might be necessary to stand further back than expected and zoom in, or to use heavier or two pieces of paper. I used a fancy $2500+ camera, but I believe one could get similar results from most cameras.
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"low beam reflector bucket"?
I am not trying to give anyone a hard time, IMO, there is no such thing. The C14 reflector is static regardless of the bulb type.
Traditional halogen bulbs have a "shield" over the low beam element that inhibits light from going up from the element. The high beam element has no such shield.
With these Cyclops Adventure LED modules, there is no "shield" and, as noted there are LED's lit top and bottom 100% of the time. Two (1 bottom + 1 top) on low and the other two (1+1 bottom, 1+1 top) lit on high beam.
I'm not sure that the angle of my particular lens blinds or otherwise obscures the sight of oncoming drivers.
If one of you would like to ride to Savannah, I will gladly put you up at my house, feed you and let you drink to your hearts content in exchange for a side-by-side comparo betwixt the LED modules and traditional halogen bulbs. I know of a great 2 lane road with very little traffic (and no street lights) that we can test on.
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"low beam reflector bucket"?
I am not trying to give anyone a hard time, IMO, there is no such thing. The C14 reflector is static regardless of the bulb type.
Actually, there is. Please look at the photos I posted here: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18841.msg231847#msg231847 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18841.msg231847#msg231847) you can see the headlight is composed of two sections. The top portion is the low beam and the bottom is the high beam. No light should be hitting the bottom section when you are on low beams, otherwise, you will blind people because that section is aimed much higher.
Traditional halogen bulbs have a "shield" over the low beam element that inhibits light from going up from the element. The high beam element has no such shield.
Correct, except you have it backwards, the shield inhibits lights from going down on low beam. High beam lights both top and bottom. This is also true for the HID bulbs. But what you have said is that the LED bulb you have will illuminate both the top and bottom on low beam, which would normally be a very bad thing to do. Of course, I don't know what the beam will look like if the LED is using a different angle on the bottom that the reflector was not designed to see.
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Nice write up and it seems like a very bright unit.
I do not want to dump on your new farkle but it looks like they put out a lot more glare than even the very high wattage bulbs you had in there previously. Both from the front of the bike but especially the photo of the car and house being illuminated: it looks like there is no cut- off like on low beam at all. Just going by the photos, it looks like those lights will be blinding to on-coming traffic.
When you ride at night and pass on coming cars, if you can see the driver's face clearly illuminated, it means you are blinding him / her also. Again, not to wizz in your corn flakes but those lights may be a bit too uncontrolled for use where there are other cars (in the desert, off road, they would be GREAT).
Brian
That was the issue I had with the '08 KLR I bought that had HID lights installed. They would light up overhead road signs a hundred yards out on low beam. I had to adjust the lights as low as they could go, and avoid riding at night as much as possible. The stock reflectors are not designed to handle HID lights.
I get flashed with the stock setup on the concours if I am on a very dark 2 lane at night. I decided that adding the Mondolights MM10, and the skenedesign amber LEDs serve me better than brighter headlights.
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Yeah, what I meant was the reflector as it is used by the low beam.
The shield on the lamps prevents light from going down (Boys!), not up, inside the reflector. Low beam light is reflected from the top of the reflector only while high beam light uses the entire reflector, upper and lower.
This is what a proper cut- off line looks like on forward facing lights on any vehicle: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACSuK7mkimZVcIjhGoA9Y6IyIZqTx8P7jy2q01CbO75-GqP8Oou3eO6m2hNt-5UkdmtU9HUsgXodtGwaGrldWCKRkSioSCUagD1jojIhmESa4Xe1HI3ECKhIJpPHw_1uPLarQRmI_12z9C8n2sqEgnUJs7vn4ao_1xE04kzoxyesmCoSCQ6i7d47qbaEEUKMkVbJGrBKKhIJ237lSR2a1T0RVK3dh4CSowoqEgkdSyBeh20bBhFbeOuuTWBdbioSCYauV1YIpGRKEa1QTyKkUr36&q=headlight%20cutoff&ei=bMDQVNGqBsilNvD1g3g&ved=0CAkQ9C8wAA#imgdii=_&imgrc=QZI6Q_8hZNXhJM%253A%3BH4AWz7b3_5BBKM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.9thgencivic.com%252Fforum%252Fattachments%252Fexterior%252F17858d1358808203-price-uae-2012-civic-clear-projector-headlights-imageuploadedbyautoguide1358808197.970730.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.9thgencivic.com%252Fforum%252Fexterior%252F23802-new-led-projector-headlights-inorder-excited-mucho-11.html%3B1024%3B768 (https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACSuK7mkimZVcIjhGoA9Y6IyIZqTx8P7jy2q01CbO75-GqP8Oou3eO6m2hNt-5UkdmtU9HUsgXodtGwaGrldWCKRkSioSCUagD1jojIhmESa4Xe1HI3ECKhIJpPHw_1uPLarQRmI_12z9C8n2sqEgnUJs7vn4ao_1xE04kzoxyesmCoSCQ6i7d47qbaEEUKMkVbJGrBKKhIJ237lSR2a1T0RVK3dh4CSowoqEgkdSyBeh20bBhFbeOuuTWBdbioSCYauV1YIpGRKEa1QTyKkUr36&q=headlight%20cutoff&ei=bMDQVNGqBsilNvD1g3g&ved=0CAkQ9C8wAA#imgdii=_&imgrc=QZI6Q_8hZNXhJM%253A%3BH4AWz7b3_5BBKM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.9thgencivic.com%252Fforum%252Fattachments%252Fexterior%252F17858d1358808203-price-uae-2012-civic-clear-projector-headlights-imageuploadedbyautoguide1358808197.970730.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.9thgencivic.com%252Fforum%252Fexterior%252F23802-new-led-projector-headlights-inorder-excited-mucho-11.html%3B1024%3B768)
Note that the light stops well short of where the driver would be sitting in that car; this is why low beams do NOT blind oncoming traffic. Then go back to the first page of this thread and look at the LED photographs of the house and car in the driveway.... note how the bright light goes up to and actually over the car? This will cause glare. This is why we have low / hi beams in the first place. If this were not important, there would only be headlights on and headlights off rather than two types of headlight beam.
Brian
"low beam reflector bucket"?
I am not trying to give anyone a hard time, IMO, there is no such thing. The C14 reflector is static regardless of the bulb type.
Traditional halogen bulbs have a "shield" over the low beam element that inhibits light from going up from the element. The high beam element has no such shield.
With these Cyclops Adventure LED modules, there is no "shield" and, as noted there are LED's lit top and bottom 100% of the time. Two (1 bottom + 1 top) on low and the other two (1+1 bottom, 1+1 top) lit on high beam.
I'm not sure that the angle of my particular lens blinds or otherwise obscures the sight of oncoming drivers.
If one of you would like to ride to Savannah, I will gladly put you up at my house, feed you and let you drink to your hearts content in exchange for a side-by-side comparo betwixt the LED modules and traditional halogen bulbs. I know of a great 2 lane road with very little traffic (and no street lights) that we can test on.
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i hope a solution is found. I skipped the whole HID thing in anticipation of LED technology coming quickly, ain't happened for the C14!
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i hope a solution is found. I skipped the whole HID thing in anticipation of LED technology coming quickly, ain't happened for the C14!
The shield on the lamps prevents light from going down (Boys!), not up, inside the reflector. Low beam light is reflected from the top of the reflector only while high beam light uses the entire reflector, upper and lower.
I think someone just needs to experiment by getting out their microscopic soldering pencil and with changing the LEDs so that both of the top ones come on with the low beam and all four (2 top 2 bottom) come on with the high beam.
That is if I'm understanding how it is currently working.
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Well, fine but it is amazing that we got all the way to a finished, marketed product with such a huge design flaw in the first place. Me thinks perhaps some sparky type (perhaps even the dreaded E.E. type) designed the electronic package without knowing enough, and perhaps absolutely nothing, about the optics. Why in the world anyone would make an H4 lamp replacement illuminate DOWN when on low beam is beyond me.
And besides all of that, the beam pattern will not be too spiffy (another technical term) with two LED's being used on top either; the focal point (the foci) of the reflector is designed around one point of light- the filament in the original H4 lamp. Two different positions providing sources of light is not going to yield a reasonable cut- off line either. Well, on second though it may.... but it will absolutely yield TWO cut- off lines, and the second one will not be precise or sharp.
Bright lighting is easy. Bright vehicle lighting is easy too. But bright, precise and well- placed vehicle lighting is not easy and it is not cheap either. There is a reason Mercedes Benzs, Audis, Infinitys, Accuras and a few other vehicles have such outstanding headlights.... and Ebay is certainly not part of that reason.... ;) ::)
Brian
I think someone just needs to experiment by getting out their microscopic soldering pencil and with changing the LEDs so that both of the top ones come on with the low beam and all four (2 top 2 bottom) come on with the high beam.
That is if I'm understanding how it is currently working.
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I believe that the vast majority of folks "designing" aftermarket lighting "solutions" have never even heard of FMVSS-108 let alone read it or understand it. Brian is right, motor vehicle manufacturers pay good engineers a lot of money to design their lighting. It ain't a "by guess and by gosh" endeavor.
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Looking at the pics on the original post of the Lamps, it looks like the circuit boards that the LED's are mounted are held to the Aluminum heat sink by a couple of screws so it looks like it may be fairly easy to rewire them so just the top LEDs come on in Low.
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I think someone just needs to experiment by getting out their microscopic soldering pencil and with changing the LEDs so that both of the top ones come on with the low beam and all four (2 top 2 bottom) come on with the high beam.
Looking at the pics on the original post of the Lamps, it looks like the circuit boards that the LED's are mounted are held to the Aluminum heat sink by a couple of screws so it looks like it may be fairly easy to rewire them so just the top LEDs come on in Low.
HeH Heh heh...and the plot thickens...(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s410/Dalek_Skeet/Smilies/dGeek/evil_zps63325b25.gif)
The soldering pencil is in your court Dolomoto.
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Not to be a *****, but projectors are currently the only right way to do a non-halogen bulb... It's a lot of work yes, but the end result is SO much better, and less blinding to other drivers. I know that the PNP HID kits seem to work decently in these particular housings, but if you want results, you need to do projectors. LED technology isn't quite there yet.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18243.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18243.0)
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I found this and thought it was interesting
Home > Automotive Bulbs > LED Bulbs
LED Bulbs
Replace your halogen fog light bulbs with a PIAA LED Bulb Conversion Kit. This LED lighting bulb upgrade is available in two color options: Xenon White 6000k or Ion Yellow 2800k.
Designed for an quick and easy install, they plug directly in place of your stock bulbs with no rewiring, splicing or soldering needed.
The low power draw means these LED performance bulbs use up to 75% less energy than the bulb it will be replacing.
Engineered with a brilliant cut-line and anti-glare technology, these bulb upgrades direct the light to where you need it most; On the road.
While these bulbs run at a drastically reduced temperature in comparison to halogen bulbs, thermal management is key to the lifespan of circuit boards. Because these are designed to withstand the life of the vehicle, our LED replacement bulbs feature dual alloy construction and an electronic fan to keep the circuit board and LED chips cool.
PIAA LED Bulb
OE Halogen Bulb PIAA Yellow LED Bulb PIAA White LED Bulb
OE Bulb - 9006 PIAA 2800k LED Bulb - 9006 PIAA 6000k LED Bulb - 9006
Performance LED Fog Bulb White 6000k Twin Pack
Item #: 171
Performance LED Fog Bulb White 6000k Twin Pack
Price: $299.99
Performance LED Fog Bulb Yellow 2800k Twin Pack
Item #: 175
Performance LED Fog Bulb Yellow 2800k Twin Pack
Price: $299.99
http://www.piaa.com/LEDbulb (http://www.piaa.com/LEDbulb)
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Hard for me to swallow 3 bills for a pair of light bulbs.
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I absolutely agree, I won't be buying them anytime soon. I did find it interesting that they are properly designed with proper cut-off at the top.
Years ago, when I was building off-road parts, PIAA hooked me up with newly released products and they were REALLY high quality. Since then I have purchased some PIAA products and have never been disappointed. Next week I'm going to get a pair of their Night Tech bulbs for my C14.
Another positive instance of you get what you pay for.
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So i was just looking into these and there are now lots of options that light up 180 degrees for low beam and 360 degrees for High Beam. these are on Ebay and should solve the issue many of you have spoken about.
Thoughts?
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So i was just looking into these and there are now lots of options that light up 180 degrees for low beam and 360 degrees for High Beam. these are on Ebay and should solve the issue many of you have spoken about.
Thoughts?
interesting. Link?
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So i was just looking into these and there are now lots of options that light up 180 degrees for low beam and 360 degrees for High Beam. these are on Ebay and should solve the issue many of you have spoken about.
Thoughts?
Welcome!
They are interesting in that they follow the correct high/low direction of illumination. However, they appear to suffer from the same problem as the other LED modules we have seen so far- they have no built-in cut-off (shade) for the low beams. This means they can potentially create a tremendous amount more glare than stock halogen bulbs because they through light out EVERYWHERE on one side. Halogen (and even most aftermarket HID replacement) bulbs have a metal shade for a true and absolute control of the light.
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... Wanted to install LED turn-signals, but don't want to pierce any wiring with load-resistors, so will leave them alone as well.
...
I'm a bit late to this party... but you can get a LED rated flasher relay that replaces the stocker under the long plastic under the right side of the seat. I'm running LED signals all 4 corners with this relay. No cuts, no splices. Hazards still function normally, too. This came up in another thread some months ago http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17998.msg220613#msg220613 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17998.msg220613#msg220613).
Back to topic... I have nothing helpful to contribute, but I'm learning a lot.
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jefflinde:
Yeah. I tried a nice pair (that is for BDF...) like that, and they suck. Yes, a technical term. Lots of light, but not well focused. Not even symmetrical left to right. P O S lighting.
BDF: FOCUS is singular...FOCI is plural. Latin, eh?
Dat
Sax
Man
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Right- the reflectors have both, one point of focus for each type of beam, or two foci in the reflector in its entirety; hence the use of both words. Pick the one you like best but really, we only care about the focus point of the low beam in the reflector housing.... mostly.
:-)
Brian
jefflinde:
Yeah. I tried a nice pair (that is for BDF...) like that, and they suck. Yes, a technical term. Lots of light, but not well focused. Not even symmetrical left to right. P O S lighting.
BDF: FOCUS is singular...FOCI is plural. Latin, eh?
Dat
Sax
Man
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jefflinde:
Yeah. I tried a nice pair (that is for BDF...) like that, and they suck. Yes, a technical term. Lots of light, but not well focused. Not even symmetrical left to right. P O S lighting.
BDF: FOCUS is singular...FOCI is plural. Latin, eh?
Dat
Sax
Man
My goodness, that sounds like me.
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BDF, agreed that there are plural focal points...but you used FOCI as a singular in your post. Just sayin.
VJ, better n being dim but focused...or lights on, nobody home, or...
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this is a slightly different one than i posted a pic from but it does the same thing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/9003-H4-Cree-Super-Bright-3200-Lumen-6500K-40W-White-Headlight-High-Low-Beam-LED-/331264613024?hash=item4d20e8daa0&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/9003-H4-Cree-Super-Bright-3200-Lumen-6500K-40W-White-Headlight-High-Low-Beam-LED-/331264613024?hash=item4d20e8daa0&vxp=mtr)
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this is a slightly different one than i posted a pic from but it does the same thing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/9003-H4-Cree-Super-Bright-3200-Lumen-6500K-40W-White-Headlight-High-Low-Beam-LED-/331264613024?hash=item4d20e8daa0&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/9003-H4-Cree-Super-Bright-3200-Lumen-6500K-40W-White-Headlight-High-Low-Beam-LED-/331264613024?hash=item4d20e8daa0&vxp=mtr)
Yep, same problem- zero cut off/shield. I wish they weren't allowed to sell these bulbs. The last thing we need are more blinding vehicles on the road :(
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Anyone can sell them, legally, under the guise of them NOT being used in DOT approved vehicles. Same way companies can re-flash the ECU and get around those nasty EPA fines by slapping an "Off Road Use only" sticker on it. So it is really the user who is committing the offense, and it should be dealt with on an individual basis, by local LEO's on offending vehicles (speaking of lighting here; there is no way an LEO could suspect ECU alteration of course). This is where the whole thing falls down IMO- it seems that anyone can drive with anything that makes light on the front of the vehicle and get away with it. I have seen headlights so dark purple that they are useless and yet when seeing them on a car sitting next to, or across from, an LEO at an intersection, I have never seen such a vehicle get pulled over. So it seems that we have somehow made the group decision to basically allow anything for forward lighting on vehicles. ??
I understand that in Canada it is quite different and such vehicles get stopped. Maybe the Canadians are more sensitive to bright lights, eh?
Brian
Yep, same problem- zero cut off/shield. I wish they weren't allowed to sell these bulbs. The last thing we need are more blinding vehicles on the road :(
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I ended up installing HID's with projectors. I tried just HID's with the shield and they were throwing light all over the place...light was everywhere. I added projectors to the HID's and it made a HUGE difference in where the light was going. It put it "downstream" like it's supposed to be.
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Not only better as far as where the light goes but they also put out far more light from the same light source. Reflectors can only grab less than 50% of the light produced by any lamp while projectors get much more of the lamp's output (cannot remember the percentage right now but it is very high).
Brian
I ended up installing HID's with projectors. I tried just HID's with the shield and they were throwing light all over the place...light was everywhere. I added projectors to the HID's and it made a HUGE difference in where the light was going. It put it "downstream" like it's supposed to be.
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Not only better as far as where the light goes but they also put out far more light from the same light source.
Brian
The difference in the "amount" of light was amazing! I CAN NOT out ride my light at night (I guess I could but that would be scary :yikes:)
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I ended up installing HID's with projectors.
This is what I wish I had. But I am not willing to take apart the whole headlight assembly to do it. Plus it would be nice if it were LED, too. Just waiting for something to pop up one day...
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This is what I wish I had. But I am not willing to take apart the whole headlight assembly to do it. Plus it would be nice if it were LED, too. Just waiting for something to pop up one day...
My City Lights are LED. The pulling apart of the headlight assembly was a pain but I am glad I did it.