LED headlight module (Cyclops Adventure)

[maxtog]

Thank you for posting that photo, and for your comments. And it's only common sense that the blue tint reduces light output, at least to some degree. Plus it might contribute to higher heat, which could be the reason they last less, no? Hmmm. Do those Philips Xtreme Vision have that tint? Do you rate them better than the Sylvania BrightStars (previously SilverStars, I think)? Thx.

Yes, the Philips are tinted (you can see that in the photo I provided).  All "whiter" hallogen bulbs are just using tint.  Yes the tint might reduce the output slightly, but the bulbs are still a little brighter than stock somehow.  The color is actually nice.   Their being over-driven some, and the tint probably do contribute to the lower life that people report.  I can't say anything about Sylvania because I have only used the Philips.

[VirginiaJim]

I've tried the 'brighter' ones and they tend to burn out earlier than standard bulbs, at least with me.  The standards are fine for me, but I don't run at night that much.

[elp_jc]

I've tried the 'brighter' ones and they tend to burn out earlier than standard bulbs, at least with me.  The standards are fine for me, but I don't run at night that much.

I also don't ride much at night, so will leave well alone. Will only install brighter 'city light' LEDs. Wanted to install LED turn-signals, but don't want to pierce any wiring with load-resistors, so will leave them alone as well.

Hey gang, does anybody have a chart with all the bulb types and voltages for the C14? I was surprised they're not listed in the owner's manual.

As a side comment, my 2015 owner's manual still lists a separate CA bike, so I'm sure I got one of those. Kawasaki's warehouse probably had a surplus of CA bikes, and sent my dealer one (waiting for confirmation from them, since it doesn't say anywhere). I know for a fact those bikes take into account the air routed to the intake from the solenoid (called a 'pump' on my bike) since my BMW started rev-hanging after removal, so one more thing to leave alone (at least for now). Might only just plug the Air Injection if I get afterburn with the TBR+P1X, and remove that at the first valve check. But will leave the Evaporative Emissions alone.

FInally, some bad news for 2015 owners who want the CopperDawg sport screen: Will have to order about $45 worth of parts to be able to install it. Ouch! But want a tinted screen, AND much more (clean) wind hitting me than with the barn-door stock windscreen, so it has to go. The only thing I don't want from a sport-tourer/tourer is the wind protection they provide up top . Thankfully CopperDawg has a clean and much better-looking solution than just a cut-off screen. Have a good one folks.

[maxtog]

FInally, some bad news for 2015 owners who want the CopperDawg sport screen: Will have to order about $45 worth of parts to be able to install it.

Why would the installation be any different or require any different or additional parts than the 2010-2014?

[2wheelsanity]

So judging from the pictures, there really is no "low/high" beam. Just a bright and brighter beam, correct? I've been looking at the LED conversions, but have had reservations about the low/high beam issue.
Thank you for posting the pictures, they are really helpful.

[elp_jc]

Why would the installation be any different or require any different or additional parts than the 2010-2014?

Because CopperDawg designed it to reuse parts of the 2010-2014 windscreen, including the top 2 black plastic parts where the screen is screwed to the brackets. And due to the vent, the new windscreen has different parts. He listed all the parts needed somewhere here, I believe. The CopperDawg will cost me $500, and mine costs $700 from parts dealers. Hopefully I can sell it for $400 and recover most of the expense . If I can't sell it for something like that (it's brand new), would just keep it for resale time. Or for a cold trip. Have a good one.

[maxtog]

So judging from the pictures, there really is no "low/high" beam. Just a bright and brighter beam, correct? I've been looking at the LED conversions, but have had reservations about the low/high beam issue.
Thank you for posting the pictures, they are really helpful.

No.  Like Halogen, the LED bulbs have two light positions; low beam. Like HID- the light sources should all be the same same brightness (on halogen, the two are different brightness).  Unlike either, the LED bulb in this thread has three fixed light sources, not 1 like HID (which moves in two positions) or 2 like halogen.  The two positions are what make high or low beam for two reasons- one: it changes the angle of the light on the top output and two: it allows light to shine down into the lower reflector (the high-beam-only reflector).  See my attached photos I took for another thread for "proof".

But there are some unanswered questions to answer your next part.  But I can make some reasonable assumptions:  I will assume that in low beam, only the top/near-tip LED is on.  On high beam, I will assume that the top/near-plug LED is on AND the bottom LED is on.  If this is correct, then there could be twice as much light produced by the bulb on high beam as on low beam- but not in the same places.

[dolomoto]

On each module, there are 4 LED's, 2  on top, 2 on bottom. Low beam has one LED lit on each side, high beam lights the remaining two.

Taking into account that most folks have not seen these in person, I am surprised at the strong feelings about the lack of a low beam cutoff.

[maxtog]

On each module, there are 4 LED's, 2  on top, 2 on bottom. Low beam has one LED lit on each side, high beam lights the remaining two.

OK, that is even stranger.

Taking into account that most folks have not seen these in person, I am surprised at the strong feelings about the lack of a low beam cutoff.

Theory is all we have (and theory is important).  You need to supply photos of the beams on a light building from about 20 feet.  Then we could speculate less   Of course, a thorough examination in person is no substitute for photos.

[B.D.F.]

You are right of course, I (I will only speak for myself here, not 'others') have not seen these in person. I am going entirely by your photos of the headlight casting their beams on the house across the street with the car parked in the driveway. In the photo, there is as much light on the building at the level of the car's roof as there is on the ground in front of the motorcycle. Going further, I cannot see any cut-off line at all, whatsoever in the low beam photo; in fact it looks identical to the high beam photo.

Finally, you state that one LED on top and one LED on the bottom are used for low beam, and two top and bottom are used for high beam; that cannot possibly work correctly. The low beam reflector bucket is not designed to have any light at all projected downward when using the low beams. The downward projection of light will be reflected up above the level of the reflector itself and is by definition, glare. Look at the excellent photos others  have provided in this very thread of halogen H4 lamps and you can easily see the shovel shaped shield that prevents ALL light from the tungsten filament from being projected downward. HIDs do the identical thing by using not one but a pair of shields to again prevent any light from shining on the lower half of the reflector when the low beams are used.

I would be more than happy to change my opinion given a photo of a stock H4 lamp in a C-14 against a white wall, clearly showing the cut- off line and then a photo of the same bike, same camera placement and same camera settings showing little additional light being thrown above the cut-off line. As I said, I do not see any cut-off line at all in the pictures you have posted in this thread. ??

I am not trying to insult you or knock you in any way, and I really do appreciate you bringing this tech. info. to the forum. I can form opinions and beliefs only by what I know to be facts as well as what I am shown and everything about those lights I am aware of, from your photos and your description of how they work, tells me they are not applicable for on- road driving. YMMV as always.

Brian

On each module, there are 4 LED's, 2  on top, 2 on bottom. Low beam has one LED lit on each side, high beam lights the remaining two.

Taking into account that most folks have not seen these in person, I am surprised at the strong feelings about the lack of a low beam cutoff.

[maxtog]

The low beam reflector bucket is not designed to have any light at all projected downward when using the low beams.

I know.  Scary, isn't it?  If it is burning an LED on top AND bottom on low beam, it is like having high beams on all the time.  More photos needed!

The one that I provided is quite easy to make- tape a piece of paper tightly over the headlight shell and take a photo of it in low beam then in high beam (I probably should have mentioned that is how I got that photos of the "HIDcompare" above.)  Depending on the camera, it might be necessary to stand further back than expected and zoom in, or to use heavier or two pieces of paper.  I used a fancy $2500+ camera, but I believe one could get similar results from most cameras.

[dolomoto]

"low beam reflector bucket"?

I am not trying to give anyone a hard time, IMO, there is no such thing. The C14 reflector is static regardless of the bulb type.

Traditional halogen bulbs have a "shield" over the low beam element that inhibits light from going up from the element. The high beam element has no such shield.

With these Cyclops Adventure LED modules, there is no "shield" and, as noted there are LED's lit top and bottom 100% of the time. Two (1 bottom + 1 top) on low and the other two (1+1 bottom, 1+1 top) lit on high beam.

I'm not sure that the angle of my particular lens blinds or otherwise obscures the sight of oncoming drivers.

If one of you would like to ride to Savannah, I will gladly put you up at my house, feed you and let you drink to your hearts content in exchange for a side-by-side comparo betwixt the LED modules and traditional halogen bulbs. I know of a great 2 lane road with very little traffic (and no street lights) that we can test on.

[maxtog]

"low beam reflector bucket"?

I am not trying to give anyone a hard time, IMO, there is no such thing. The C14 reflector is static regardless of the bulb type.

Actually, there is.  Please look at the photos I posted here:  http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18841.msg231847#msg231847  you can see the headlight is composed of two sections.  The top portion is the low beam and the bottom is the high beam.  No light should be hitting the bottom section when you are on low beams, otherwise, you will blind people because that section is aimed much higher.

Traditional halogen bulbs have a "shield" over the low beam element that inhibits light from going up from the element. The high beam element has no such shield.

Correct, except you have it backwards, the shield inhibits lights from going down on low beam.  High beam lights both top and bottom.  This is also true for the HID bulbs.  But what you have said is that the LED bulb you have will illuminate both the top and bottom on low beam, which would normally be a very bad thing to do.  Of course, I don't know what the beam will look like if the LED is using a different angle on the bottom that the reflector was not designed to see.

[twowheeladdict]

Nice write up and it seems like a very bright unit.

I do not want to dump on your new farkle but it looks like they put out a lot more glare than even the very high wattage bulbs you had in there previously. Both from the front of the bike but especially the photo of the car and house being illuminated: it looks like there is no cut- off like on low beam at all. Just going by the photos, it looks like those lights will be blinding to on-coming traffic.

When you ride at night and pass on coming cars, if you can see the driver's face clearly illuminated, it means you are blinding him / her also. Again, not to wizz in your corn flakes but those lights may be a bit too uncontrolled for use where there are other cars (in the desert, off road, they would be GREAT).

Brian

That was the issue I had with the '08 KLR I bought that had HID lights installed.  They would light up overhead road signs a hundred yards out on low beam.  I had to adjust the lights as low as they could go, and avoid riding at night as much as possible.  The stock reflectors are not designed to handle HID lights. 

I get flashed with the stock setup on the concours if I am on a very dark 2 lane at night.  I decided that adding the Mondolights MM10, and the skenedesign amber LEDs serve me better than brighter headlights.

[B.D.F.]

Yeah, what I meant was the reflector as it is used by the low beam.

The shield on the lamps prevents light from going down (Boys!), not up, inside the reflector. Low beam light is reflected from the top of the reflector only while high beam light uses the entire reflector, upper and lower.

This is what a proper cut- off line looks like on forward facing lights on any vehicle: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACSuK7mkimZVcIjhGoA9Y6IyIZqTx8P7jy2q01CbO75-GqP8Oou3eO6m2hNt-5UkdmtU9HUsgXodtGwaGrldWCKRkSioSCUagD1jojIhmESa4Xe1HI3ECKhIJpPHw_1uPLarQRmI_12z9C8n2sqEgnUJs7vn4ao_1xE04kzoxyesmCoSCQ6i7d47qbaEEUKMkVbJGrBKKhIJ237lSR2a1T0RVK3dh4CSowoqEgkdSyBeh20bBhFbeOuuTWBdbioSCYauV1YIpGRKEa1QTyKkUr36&q=headlight%20cutoff&ei=bMDQVNGqBsilNvD1g3g&ved=0CAkQ9C8wAA#imgdii=_&imgrc=QZI6Q_8hZNXhJM%253A%3BH4AWz7b3_5BBKM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.9thgencivic.com%252Fforum%252Fattachments%252Fexterior%252F17858d1358808203-price-uae-2012-civic-clear-projector-headlights-imageuploadedbyautoguide1358808197.970730.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.9thgencivic.com%252Fforum%252Fexterior%252F23802-new-led-projector-headlights-inorder-excited-mucho-11.html%3B1024%3B768


Note that the light stops well short of where the driver would be sitting in that car; this is why low beams do NOT blind oncoming traffic. Then go back to the first page of this thread and look at the LED photographs of the house and car in the driveway.... note how the bright light goes up to and actually over the car? This will cause glare. This is why we have low / hi beams in the first place. If this were not important, there would only be headlights on  and headlights off rather than two types of headlight beam.

Brian

"low beam reflector bucket"?

I am not trying to give anyone a hard time, IMO, there is no such thing. The C14 reflector is static regardless of the bulb type.

Traditional halogen bulbs have a "shield" over the low beam element that inhibits light from going up from the element. The high beam element has no such shield.

With these Cyclops Adventure LED modules, there is no "shield" and, as noted there are LED's lit top and bottom 100% of the time. Two (1 bottom + 1 top) on low and the other two (1+1 bottom, 1+1 top) lit on high beam.

I'm not sure that the angle of my particular lens blinds or otherwise obscures the sight of oncoming drivers.

If one of you would like to ride to Savannah, I will gladly put you up at my house, feed you and let you drink to your hearts content in exchange for a side-by-side comparo betwixt the LED modules and traditional halogen bulbs. I know of a great 2 lane road with very little traffic (and no street lights) that we can test on.

[stevewfl]

i hope a solution is found.  I skipped the whole HID thing in anticipation of LED technology coming quickly, ain't happened for the C14!

[just gone]

i hope a solution is found.  I skipped the whole HID thing in anticipation of LED technology coming quickly, ain't happened for the C14!

The shield on the lamps prevents light from going down (Boys!), not up, inside the reflector. Low beam light is reflected from the top of the reflector only while high beam light uses the entire reflector, upper and lower.

I think someone just needs to experiment by getting out their microscopic soldering pencil and with changing the LEDs so that both of the top ones come on with the low beam and all four (2 top 2 bottom) come on with the high beam.
That is if I'm understanding how it is currently working.

[B.D.F.]

Well, fine but it is amazing that we got all the way to a finished, marketed product with such a huge design flaw in the first place. Me thinks perhaps some sparky type (perhaps even the dreaded E.E. type) designed the electronic package without knowing enough, and perhaps absolutely nothing, about the optics. Why in the world anyone would make an H4 lamp replacement illuminate DOWN when on low beam is beyond me.

And besides all of that, the beam pattern will not be too spiffy (another technical term) with two LED's being used on top either; the focal point (the foci) of the reflector is designed around one point of light- the filament in the original H4 lamp. Two different positions providing sources of light is not going to yield a reasonable cut- off line either. Well, on second though it may.... but it will absolutely yield TWO cut- off lines, and the second one will not be precise or sharp.

Bright lighting is easy. Bright vehicle lighting is easy too. But bright, precise and well- placed vehicle lighting is not easy and it is not cheap either. There is a reason Mercedes Benzs, Audis, Infinitys, Accuras and a few other vehicles have such outstanding headlights.... and Ebay is certainly not part of that reason.... 

Brian

I think someone just needs to experiment by getting out their microscopic soldering pencil and with changing the LEDs so that both of the top ones come on with the low beam and all four (2 top 2 bottom) come on with the high beam.
That is if I'm understanding how it is currently working.

[Deziner]

I believe that the vast majority of folks "designing"  aftermarket lighting "solutions" have never even heard of FMVSS-108 let alone read it or understand it. Brian is right, motor vehicle manufacturers pay good engineers a lot of money to design their lighting.  It ain't a "by guess and by gosh" endeavor.

[fmwhit]

Looking at the pics on the original post of the Lamps, it looks like the circuit boards that the LED's are mounted are held to the Aluminum heat sink by a couple of screws so it looks like it may be fairly easy to rewire them so just the top LEDs come on in Low.