If I may redirect us once again, going back to the sheet from the service manual that smokin referenced: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20462.0;attach=26546;image

Would it be safe to say that the model noted as WVTA and rated at only 106 HP@8000 rpm was just a special spec model that was submitted for vehicle type approval in GB or Europe, and there
are not people actually riding around on these low power C14s? 

If that's not the case, I can only imagine the smile on their face when Steve reflashed their ECU.

So Steve in your experience is there an aftermarket slip on which does not create  a loss of power due to scavenging cylinder pressure?,or only minimal loss?

You're confusing terms. A slip on is not really an exhaust, it's just a muffler change, and has little to do with tuning. I'm talking about full exhaust changes, from the head back. Larger pipe diameter (the areaP is 9mm larger) no cats, changes to sequential / non sequential firing, 4 into one, tri-y crossovers, etc...etc these things make substantial changes in tuning needs. Steve

You're confusing terms. A slip on is not really an exhaust, it's just a muffler change,

Yep, I keep telling people that.  A "slip-on" is just a "muffler" or "silencer" with a short lead in pipe pre-attached.  It is not an "exhaust".  New "exhaust" means "exhaust system", which means replacing the header(s), the entire midpipe, and the muffler...... from out the engine block to out the tailpipe.

and has little to do with tuning.

Yep.  The stock Concours 1400 muffler might be big and heavy (and some think ugly, I do not), but it is not a higher source of restriction compared to the rest of the exhaust system.  Replacing just the muffler without replacing the headers and midpipe has almost no effect on power or tuning.

I'm talking about full exhaust changes, from the head back. Larger pipe diameter (the areaP is 9mm larger) no cats, changes to sequential / non sequential firing, 4 into one, tri-y crossovers, etc...etc these things make substantial changes in tuning needs. Steve

I will point out from previous threads that we are fairly sure that, like the stock muffler, the Concours 1400 catalytic converter is also not a source of restriction compared to the rest of the stock exhaust.  It is a one-way cat and flows easily.  If my memory serves correctly, someone did a lot of surgery to remove it and the dyno before/after was unchanged.

Yep, I keep telling people that.  A "slip-on" is just a "muffler" or "silencer" with a short lead in pipe pre-attached.  It is not an "exhaust".  New "exhaust" means "exhaust system", which means replacing the header(s), the entire midpipe, and the muffler...... from out the engine block to out the tailpipe.

Come on now, "exhaust" is the stuff that comes out of the tail end of the muffler.




(regardless of what my signature may state)

Ok,so  thats cleared up the situation with a full exhaust.So a slip on wont effect performance through the throttle range? Does not create hesitations at slower speed/throttle openings.No Minor hp power and torque increase across the throttle range? No change in fuel/air ratio mixture at the output end of the exhaust on a dyno?
Only less weight,more noise and more appealing to the eye?

BUT, it sounds faster!


Only less weight,more noise and more appealing to the eye?
[/quote]

Come on now, "exhaust" is the stuff that comes out of the tail end of the muffler.

So a slip on wont effect performance through the throttle range? Does not create hesitations at slower speed/throttle openings.No Minor hp power and torque increase across the throttle range? No change in fuel/air ratio mixture at the output end of the exhaust on a dyno?
Only less weight,more noise and more appealing to the eye?

Pretty much that.  Yep.
There are cases where there can be a slight hp gain at top end, and cases where it can hurt hp slightly.... mostly cases where it makes no difference.  The point it is that a muffler-only replacement it isn't a real factor in performance unless you replace the rest of the exhaust system along with it (and then you have to get different maps to deal with the change in airflow, to gain real HP, and if you don't, performance can suffer greatly).

BUT, it sounds faster!

Maybe... to me it usually just sounds louder which just makes it more annoying.  But it seems most people think louder = faster.  Can't wait for electric vehicles to completely wipe that all away...  Oh wait, people will probably be disappointed and add lots of artificial noise generators at that point!

Ironically, when you get the ECU reflashed to bork the flies, the side effect of that additional response/performance is that the intake noise is considerably louder.

I was toying with the idea to fit a  Scorpion Performance Bike Exhaust Slip On Can Carbon Serket 7- slip on,and an ECU flash,but for an outlay of approx AUS$1400.00,{slip on $700.00 + Steve's flash to Australia after customs screw you over AUS$700.00
  the standard quiet fugly exhaust is looking better every day.As far as performance goes the GTR1400 has more than enough for the Old fella and with eco mode excellent performance/economy situation.

 

 




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snip...

Yep.  The stock Concours 1400 muffler might be big and heavy (and some think ugly, I do not), but it is not a higher source of restriction compared to the rest of the exhaust system.  Replacing just the muffler without replacing the headers and midpipe has almost no effect on power or tuning.

Some folks like their gals slim while others like the 'plus sized models'.   

I was toying with the idea to fit a  Scorpion Performance Bike Exhaust Slip On Can Carbon Serket 7- slip on,and an ECU flash,but for an outlay of approx AUS$1400.00,{slip on $700.00 + Steve's flash to Australia after customs screw you over AUS$700.00  the standard quiet fugly exhaust is looking better every day.  As far as performance goes the GTR1400 has more than enough for the Old fella and with eco mode excellent performance/economy situation.

As far as improvements to the C14, it is hard to find a better value than reflashing the ECU.  It is quick, easy, and foolproof.  It improves performance and responsiveness.  It makes the bike much more enjoyable to ride.  And in the case of Steve's flash- it improves mileage which will pay for the reflash in fuel savings over the life of the bike.... so it is like getting it free.

Ok,so  thats cleared up the situation with a full exhaust.So a slip on wont effect performance through the throttle range? Does not create hesitations at slower speed/throttle openings.No Minor hp power and torque increase across the throttle range? No change in fuel/air ratio mixture at the output end of the exhaust on a dyno?
Only less weight,more noise and more appealing to the eye?

That's what my carbon fiber Delkovec did.  Lighter, looks and sounds better.

Well, I just got back from a 400 mile day on my first outing with Steve's reflash on a 2008 C14.
I had a PC installed with an economy map, Flies out and a Throttle Tamer prior to this so this is my most current basis for comparison.
I did put the files back in.

More time will tell BUT after today's ride (75mph slab, county road 65-70 mph, 50mph back roads) these are my initial impressions :

First thing I noticed: More noticeable torque at just about every speed, pulls stronger, torque is right there on tap.
Not an OMG! difference but noticeable enough to make a strong initial impression.

A reduction in off throttle jerkiness during slow/in-town riding.
If I just let the throttle slam shut it jerks a little but on normal throttle roll-off the old jerkiness is gone or very muted.

Jeff
I don't have to work so hard at being smooth.

Seems to run smoother, a pleasure to ride. The bike is a little more "electric motor-like". A well of torque that's ready to smoothly step out.

Better Gas Mileage. In my general usage 38 - 40 is the norm. I've had to work for 40, Over the road I might see 41 or a rare 42. But in general I've been resigned to 38-40.  I've lived the up and down world of watching the gas gauge and thinking that "this tank" is finally gonna give me good numbers, only to be disappointed once again. I guess I'd have to say that my biggest disappointment with the bike has been the mileage, even with a PC and an economy map.

Today in the mixed riding : 48.3 mpg. 

If I can repeat this fairly consistently I will finally have the bike I've wanted!

Good, succinct write up. My results almost exactly. I think your mileage will stay the same. Mine went up consistently by 14-15% and I was in the 38-39 mpg range, too. Only problem with noticing the improvement is that you will adjust to it quickly and forget how it used to be, if your experience is like mine.

Cool! Mine should hit 40 then! Or maybe go lower as I test the new found torque.
Wayne

Good, succinct write up. My results almost exactly. I think your mileage will stay the same. Mine went up consistently by 14-15% and I was in the 38-39 mpg range, too. Only problem with noticing the improvement is that you will adjust to it quickly and forget how it used to be, if your experience is like mine.

Wondering about backfiring. A full AreaP with Steve's AreaP flash, does it have a lot of decel backfiring? Will I need to do a pair valve ectomy?

Steve, have you actually tried your flash on a bike with the flies removed to see how it works?

Wondering about backfiring. A full AreaP with Steve's AreaP flash, does it have a lot of decel backfiring? Will I need to do a pair valve ectomy?

Mine did not need this pairectomy.

Steve, have you actually tried your flash on a bike with the flies removed to see how it works?

It wouldn't work well. Steve uses the flies to better control air intake.  A completely new flash would be required

Mine did not need this pairectomy.

Before flashing mine backfired a bunch