New tire blues :( :(

[gregm784]

I mounted my Avon's last night. I removed all the weights on both rims and used dyna beads when the tires went back on.  Both rims and tires where wiped down spotless, the beads were poured in and tires mounted (no spilled beads).

Tonight's 20 mile ride to break them in a little for this weekend revealed a front end wobble on decel.  That isn't ok with me!  Dyna beads come with great recommendations, so i 'assume' they are doing their job.  Do these Storm 2 tires usually result in this? 

Of course you could say "tighten your head stem bearings", but i've ridden 3700 miles in two months on dunlops and never once ever experienced anything like this.  I can feel it try to start the wobble just cruising at 65 if i relax my hands on the bars.

My steering is looser than the common "Tighten it until it won't flop to the side while the tire is off the ground".  It is pretty free to turn.  It always has been.

Why would changing to a new tire force me to readjust my bearings.  Isn't that hiding the real problem here?

[Silver Connie]

maybe the dunlop masked the steering head because they wore accordingly?  dunno.

[gregm784]

One thing i'm worried about with snugging up the headset is slowing down the steering.  Because i've never made them tighter, i don't know what it will do to the feeling of turning the bike.

[gregm784]

What is the proper pre-load on those bearings?  They are tapered bearings, correct?  roughly 1 1/4"?

[gtr1000]

Tonight's 20 mile ride to break them in a little for this weekend revealed a front end wobble on decel.

Exactly what I found when I mounted the original Storm to my 06. However, mine wasn't the Storm 2 Ultra like yours. I changed my Storm for a Metzeler Z6 and the wobble disappeared 

You're not the first (or the last?) to experience decel wobble with the Storm 2 up front.

[gpzrocker]

What I have like yours: Storm Ultra 2. Loose head bearings (I think, never messed with them and doesn't "feel" tight). Had an original style K700 front and a Sportmax(?) front before with no wobble.

What I don't have like you: decel wobble, dynabeads (or any weights at all, removed them), and I do have a KB fork brace and new wheel bearings.

My thought is that if you have a "perfectly" balanced tire like I seem to have, could the dynabeads (or any weight) throw it off? I would like to know what would happen if you took it somewhere and had it checked for balance as it sits, not telling them about the dynabeads, and see what happens. Then I would explore the head bearings,  snug them up more than tighten. Then I would talk to Avon if that did not work...

As the original skeptic, I was very leery of the Avons after what I had read, but I wanted a matched set, and found them on sale. I personally do not balance a premium tire unless it proves that it needs it. And I cannot see ever going back to Dunlop for a tire ON THIS BIKE. The difference in the tire is that much for me, and I ride aggressively. If my next Avon proves to cause head shake, I will not hesitate to slightly snug up my bearings before I send it back as defective.

Keep us informed of how this comes out. And I should note that there is an excellent write up somewhere of all the things that can cause this, things that should be checked anyway. Including the swingarm bolt torque. This winter I will be finding that article and going over my bike anyway...

[George R. Young]

Wobble
http://web.ncf.ca/ag136/frontWheelWobble.htm

An alternative to tightening the steering head bearings
http://web.ncf.ca/ag136/steeringDamper.htm

[Daytona_Mike]

So you could have 2 issues neither of which has to do with  installing great handling  high quality grippy tires on  tires on your bike.

Is the tire balanced?  Take it off and go have it balanced then you will know. Dyna Beads sound great and I am sure they work well  but I dont use them because I do not want to do a  'hope this works'. If they used them on track  bikes I would be sold.

Is your steering stem in need of adjusting or replacement?  If it still wobbles on decel then yes.  Good tires will tell you  if you are having an issue.  Tires that do not grip well lie and mask issues  and  only tell you something is wrong as you slide off the road in the rain.

My bet is your  stem bearings are loose. It is common and many people dont even know they have it, until they install good tires and then blame the tire.

The service manual says to lubricate them every 12,400 miles.  I havn't done it  since I installed new bearings  2 years ago but I am due for a re-tighten since I did get a tiny wobble on decel the other day (hands off the handle bars only). That's my test to tell me if they are loose. It has been about 25k since my last adjustment.  I remove the top triple tree to get at the steering stem nut. They have to be tightened up really well, more than most people think.  My last adjustment I really  tightened them until I thought I felt it bind. The wheel  would not  fall to the limiter  stop ( it was that tight) and that worked out to be be best and longest interval between adjustments. (too tight and  the bike  feels like it is steering itself, that is a creepy feeling and can be dangerous too)

[BrianM]

Is the tire balanced?  Take it off and go have it balanced then you will know. Dyna Beads sound great and I am sure they work well  but I dont use them because I do not want to do a  'hope this works'. If they used them on track  bikes I would be sold.

I think it's interesting that the claims on Dyna Beads are all based on perception.  They "claim" that they only start working at a speed Faster than any tire balancer can operate so there is no way to get actual, Quantitative proof/data on the product.  It just FEELS like snake-oil to me, from every aspect. 

I also just installed the same tire, statically balanced (hey, it's good enough for AMA racers, it's good enough for me), lubed and adjusted the steering stem to the point where the tire just barely flops when nudged off center and I have no wobble. 

One New thing to be aware of, often times things that are going awry out Back and manifest themselves up front.  So check your rear tire pressure, that the shock is damping, and that the forks are damping. 

[Daytona_Mike]

I like that Brian  'just barely flops'.
That is the correct adjustment.

 I  went nuts for years  trying to find out why my bike would do a decel wobble.  I have ridden rice burners  for since the 70's and my Connie was the only bike I could not take my hands off the handle bars on decel. It is not that I wanted to, it is just a means to know that everything is correct because it should never  wobble ,  unless something is not  right. In 2009 at the Nationals I put my  bike in the tech shop. I had just installed new bearings and this was the 3rd adjustment and boy they really cranked them down and the handling  in hard fast corners  felt great but it still had slight  decel wobbles. Then I decided to try (what I thought was ) over tightening them. Voila! Problem gone and it was not too tight, just a lot tighter then I thought I should have to go.  That is my point and others have gone though similar experiences. Maybe it is because of the heavier weight our Connies have  on such a smallish stem bearing.

[snarf]

I like that Brian  'just barely flops'.
That is the correct adjustment.

I believe that is the technical term they are teaching the techs from the 2yr school of bike repair

[Daytona_Mike]

I believe that is the technical term they are teaching the techs from the 2yr school of bike repair

Guess what, they dont teach steering stem adjustment in bike school other wise when you call  the service dept  at a dealer they would know what your talking about.  The ones I called here in Daytona said they had never adjusted one.

[Silver Connie]

to be honest, my front end didnt flop side to side when the bearings were loose.  with everything on it cables, wire harness, plastic, its so stiff it wont move under gravity. i just tightened until wobble was gone.

[kzz1king]

I had the opposite results when I replaced an 88 Metz with the storm. My wobble went away, static balanced. With the Metzler with a lot of miles on it tightening the bearings would not stop it.
Wayne

[Daytona_Mike]

I believe it about the 88 Metz. Even though it static balanced  fine  it most likely would fail a road force balance and would shake the bike.
Congrats on getting away from that Metz

[booger]

Chunk the dyna beads and give it a try.

[Dan]

Well I put avons on mine, great tires, but I had a small wobble as well...  Going from the dunlop, to the avon, tightened my bearings, and did a 9k ride over the next 2 months, and had 0 problems......  So tighten your steering and you will be fine....