Author Topic: Jackets4bikes????  (Read 11433 times)

Offline basmntdweller

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Jackets4bikes????
« on: May 31, 2012, 04:16:32 PM »
I have been looking for a leather suit for wearing on track days. I happened to have a google ad pop up on another site I was surfing. It was a really cheap price on a full 1pc leather suit. It was through Amazon.com but was actually Jackets4bikes.com. I was leery at the low price (209.00) for a full suit with full armor and knee pucks. I got the suit last night but didn't open it up until today. It looked quite a bit better than I was expecting with decent stitching and construction. Unfortunately the fit wasn't what I really needed. The sleeves were about 2" too long and the legs were maybe an inch short. I could have lived with those problems for no more time I would be using it. The deal breaker was zero room in the crotch area. Once I got fully into the suit, all zipped up etc, my junk was being crushed! So, this one is going back but I don't want a suit any bigger as the waist and legs fit pretty good and the next size up gets even longer sleeves. They have a 2pc suit for a little less (199.00) that zips together at the waist. I have a msg in to them to ask if the 2pc when zipped gives any more room than the 1pc suits. If so, I'll do an exchange.
So, has anyone else bought any of their suits? How has the quality been? Have you had good service from them?
I know a lot of guys here probably only buy the best but if it comes to having to buy a $600+ leather suit to ride a few track days, I won't make it. It would be different if I intended this to be a regularly worn suit but I can't see me doing that. I am very comfy in my mesh jacket and jeans for daily riding.

Thanks, Matt
 
'09 C14
'98 DR-350
'11 Suzuki C50T wife's ride since she hates my Connie
'03 Honda CBR600RR track bike

Offline stevewfl

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2012, 04:42:41 PM »
Don't cut yourself short on leathers and good gear. 

I won't even use Cycle Gears "house" brands for the street/track.

For me its been Alpinestars or Dainese.  And i usually buy 1 piece or 2 piece suits in those brands on the cheap - someone always has closeouts on last years designs and such.

Today I got open minded and bought this sweet jacket, I've never used this brand but wow it seems sweet and should be for the price.  If the zipper won't work with my Dainese leather pants I'll have a seamstress fix it =)



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Offline RBX QB

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2012, 04:51:13 PM »
... If the zipper won't work with my Dainese leather pants I'll have a seamstress fix it =)


Finding a good local shop to do tailoring could be worth it... buy the gear sized at or over what you need (proper legs and crotch, and perhaps long sleeves), and have them take it in to fit you best. 2 piece would get you closer to your sizing goals.

I know there's a cruiser gear shop near me that has in-house tailoring. I've only had them do a zipper replacement, but it was $10 and they had it for me the next day. Worth some phone calls to ask about tailoring full gear.

And, I'm no help on Jackets4Bikes... never dealt with them.
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Offline galaxieman

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 05:01:22 PM »
Don't have any experience with their suits, but in general, 2-piece suits will have a bit more, um, junk room than the equivalent 1-piece.

As for the Cycle Gear 'house' brands, they took a serious quality hit when the Frank Thomas stuff got replaced by Bilt.
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Offline basmntdweller

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2012, 05:48:25 PM »
Don't cut yourself short on leathers and good gear. 

I won't even use Cycle Gears "house" brands for the street/track.


That's fine,if you are going to wear them regularly. Like I said, if I have to spend the cash for a name brand suit, I won't be doing any track days. I'd love to have a custom fitted leather 1pc suit but I will not pay that kind of $$ for one. I was originally thinking of buying a pair of pants to match my Tourmaster Intake Jacket. They were $199 at my local Cycle Outfitters. I have read that textile gear is considered a 1 off piece of gear. You toss them away after one get-off! Looking at the Tourmaster pants and the way they zipped together with the jacket was a joke.
Comparing the suit I got to my Tourmaster jacket, I would much rather be in the suit than my jacket. It seems that it would offer far better protection than any mesh jacket. I am sure it could handle many unplanned exits from the bike. Worst case, it might need some seams fixed or something along those lines. Or, for the $200, you can toss it and get another one!

I understand that some guys only want the best and don't flinch at spending the $$ for it. I have a buddy that spent $700 for his latest helmet and didn't give it a second thought. He also buys the latest greatest BMW every couple years. I have always leaned towards the best bang for my bucks. Whether that means buying older model helmets that are on closeout for way less than originally priced or looking for a bit cheaper product and live with slightly lesser quality. I have done fairly well with that attitude so far. I got my C-14 new but 2 years old for way less than what '11s were going for. I got a Bell Vortex helmet for less than $100 and it was a well rated helmet when it came out. I still use the cheaper dino oil in my bike. It's not worth the $$ to me for the latest greatest synthetic. Oils and engines are so much better today than even 10 years ago. IMO, synthetic is just not required. I question if some of these cheaper suits aren't similar in that they aren't as good as current latest greatest, but maybe even better than suits of 7-10 years ago????


Matt
'09 C14
'98 DR-350
'11 Suzuki C50T wife's ride since she hates my Connie
'03 Honda CBR600RR track bike

Offline basmntdweller

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2012, 05:50:13 PM »
Don't have any experience with their suits, but in general, 2-piece suits will have a bit more, um, junk room than the equivalent 1-piece.

As for the Cycle Gear 'house' brands, they took a serious quality hit when the Frank Thomas stuff got replaced by Bilt.


I am a newby at suits so how about telling me what makes these $200 suits so inferior to the $1200 custom suits besides exact fit?

Matt
'09 C14
'98 DR-350
'11 Suzuki C50T wife's ride since she hates my Connie
'03 Honda CBR600RR track bike

Offline bbhzx12

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2012, 08:06:05 PM »
I stopped wearing leather on the street, kept them for track use only.  They were too dangerous on the street.



Felt like Superman, invinceable..... I was going to get into trouble!

Offline r2t2

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2012, 08:56:41 PM »

I am a newby at suits so how about telling me what makes these $200 suits so inferior to the $1200 custom suits besides exact fit?

Matt

Lots... Stitching, both type of thread and how the seams are stitched down. Type of leather. A lot of the leather gear is a cheaper split, top grain and full grain all have different properties and uses. most high end leathers use use a top grain. And as you found out... Sizing.

Cheap leathers aren't going to be any better that the textile gear you're wanting to avoid. I've been asphalt surfing in both leather and textile. Both were considered sacrificial and are far easier to replace than MY hide. And just as an FYI, some textile suits are approved for racing use.

Oh and Steve... If you got that jacket cheap... You got a great deal.
RayK
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Offline JS_racer

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 04:13:36 AM »
(where could i get the other half of the zipper ?? none of my gear works. lol. Revit ignition jacket, Dainese D-System D-Dry Pants  )


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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 06:47:09 AM »
(where could i get the other half of the zipper ?? none of my gear works. lol. Revit ignition jacket, Dainese D-System D-Dry Pants  )

Shoot me your address, I've got a couple laying around.

Offline stevewfl

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 07:09:43 AM »

I am a newby at suits so how about telling me what makes these $200 suits so inferior to the $1200 custom suits besides exact fit?

Matt

Crash once on each and you'll see. The list is too long to type the differences.
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Offline basmntdweller

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 08:13:21 AM »
If I thought I was going to crash, I wouldn't even think of doing a track day. I only want to do one or two to quiet the lean alarms a bit. If it weren't for track rules, I'd be comfortable doing a track day in my mesh jacket and jeans and my helmet of course.

It seems many of the members of this forum are overly concerned with their safety, almost to the point of paranoia at times. If I was that scared, I'd have to consider giving up riding. I have been in two street wrecks in my riding history and countless ones off road. Both street wrecks were essentially due to my lean alarms going off and making bad choices at that moment. One caused severe internal injuries and the other I escaped any pain besides a little soreness. In neither case would full gear have helped much at all. I was wearing a helmet both times so if I hit my head, I didn't notice it. I'm not saying gear doesn't help prevent injury, it just wouldn't have helped in my two cases. Most of the really bad wrecks you hear about gear isn't going to help much either.
The best way to stay safe is learn to ride better, hence I want to do a few track days. I just want to meet the rules set out by the tracks. Abrasions and such are the least of my worries if I happen to crash on a track day. If that were to happen, I will make sure to get pics of all my injuries as well as damage done to my gear and bike.

Matt
'09 C14
'98 DR-350
'11 Suzuki C50T wife's ride since she hates my Connie
'03 Honda CBR600RR track bike

Offline stevewfl

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 08:44:56 AM »
If I thought I was going to crash, I wouldn't even think of doing a track day. I only want to do one or two to quiet the lean alarms a bit. If it weren't for track rules, I'd be comfortable doing a track day in my mesh jacket and jeans and my helmet of course.

It seems many of the members of this forum are overly concerned with their safety, almost to the point of paranoia at times. If I was that scared, I'd have to consider giving up riding. I have been in two street wrecks in my riding history and countless ones off road. Both street wrecks were essentially due to my lean alarms going off and making bad choices at that moment. One caused severe internal injuries and the other I escaped any pain besides a little soreness. In neither case would full gear have helped much at all. I was wearing a helmet both times so if I hit my head, I didn't notice it. I'm not saying gear doesn't help prevent injury, it just wouldn't have helped in my two cases. Most of the really bad wrecks you hear about gear isn't going to help much either.
The best way to stay safe is learn to ride better, hence I want to do a few track days. I just want to meet the rules set out by the tracks. Abrasions and such are the least of my worries if I happen to crash on a track day. If that were to happen, I will make sure to get pics of all my injuries as well as damage done to my gear and bike.

Matt

If you are just trying to meet the rules sure get the worst cheapest crap on the market.

You never plan for the crash, but always prepare for in case. Your bike, debris in the track falling off another bike, the guy in front of you, or aside you, all can take you out no matter how slow you plan to ride the course.

We can debate all day.  Cheap crap leathers are like anything else, you get what you pay for. In the unlikely event you go down, the better leathers will better protect you.  The only reason I put leathers on is protection.  I never "plan" to crash either when I go out onto the street or track either  :D
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Offline galaxieman

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 11:05:47 AM »

I am a newby at suits so how about telling me what makes these $200 suits so inferior to the $1200 custom suits besides exact fit?

Matt

I have a $1000 msrp (I bought it on clearance for 40% off!!!) Alpinestars suit, and the ~$800 Speed and Strength suit that I got from Kawasaki at the Zero to Hero Challenge I was just in.  The A* suit is just over 4 years old, and even being a higher dollar suit, I think the S&S is slightly better, mostly due to suit and armor development.  The price point on a decent suit has come down somewhat, but as has been said above the differences are noticeable.  A cheap leather suit will most likely protect you in a trackday get-off, a better suit (sourced on clearance when you can find something in your size) will protect you, and will most likely be usable again afterward.  A couple of points:

Leather: This is where the $200 suit and the $1k suit are probably most alike.  While the higher dollar suit may be a bit more supple, the basic leather thickness and protection level are not vastly different.  Caveat: some of the really cheap suits are noticeably thinner leather.  Avoid these like the plague.

Textile:  Huge differences here.  Cheap suits generally use basic stretch textile for the crotch, inner thigh, bicep area, etc.  Better suits will generally use advanced materials like Schoeller Keprotec, which is specifically designed to be abrasion, tear, and heat resistant.

Stitching / Seam design: Double and triple stitching, coupled with better seam design and things like kevlar thread are where better suits will excel.  Additionally, the patterns for higher grade leathers will include solid pieces of leather across the most abrasion-prone areas, in order to eliminate the possibility of blowing a seam open in a get-off.

Armor:  This is one of the biggest areas the cheap suits will skimp.  Knox CE Level-2 armor is the standard, in a GP-style (hard exterior with softer foam toward the rider).  The better suits also incorporate padding between the armor and the leather exterior, so that the leather doesn't sit directly on the hard armor surface, giving it some flex so it's less likely to wear through while sliding down the road.


All that said, I completely understand paying less $$$ for a suit so you have more $$$ to spend on trackdays.  You're definitely right that the best way to stay safe is to become a better rider, and I can understand wanting to get the least expensive safety equipment that clears you with the track to go out and ride.  Frank Thomas went out of business, so CG isn't carrying them anymore.  However, their Sedici line of stuff (built by the same manufacturer as BILT, the former MotoBoss) is in line with what FT used to put out.  Better quality than you'd expect for the $$, and still pretty reasonably priced.  However, if the Jackets4Bikes stuff is anything like the BILT stuff at CycleGear, I'd avoid it. 

It's one of those things where I'd rather spend an extra $100 on a clearance set of hot pink leathers of higher quality than have to replace the pretty ones that were cheaper the first time I crash in them.  Like I said above, I didn't care what color or pattern was on the A* suit when I bought it, I just cared that it was on stupid clearance and was the right size.  If you're comfortable with your current leathers for light track duty, wear them!  Most any full leather suit (or 360-degree zip 2-piece) is going to be WAY better than a textile jacket and jeans, so you're better off than you would be otherwise.    If you're not completely comfortable with those, Sportbiketrackgear.com is a good place to keep an eye on for clearance stuff, I've gotten a couple of really good deals there. 
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Offline basmntdweller

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 11:52:54 AM »
Very nice explanation galaxieman! I appreciated it. If I wanted to wait until next year to do some track days, I know you can get some fantastic deals on suits and other gear at Daytona during speedweeks. I just don't wan to wait. One of my friends picked up a two piece Alpine stars leather suit for $250 in 2010. I would happily pay that. I was looking at maybe doing 3 track days this year. Rental costs were going to be about $180 for a suit. I figured buying a $200 suit was basically free after three track days.

I looked up specs on a few name brands and leather thickness was pretty much the same range as my cheapy suit. I have no way of knowing what the stitching material is but Kevlar thread I isn't that much pricier than regular thread. I doubt it would be more than a buck to sew one in Kevlar versus cheap stuff. I have a 2lb spool of Kevlar thread I bought for some projects and it only cost me about $16 with 5 of that in shipping.
I looked at the seams and they are all double stitched and made in the style that Lee Parks book mentions as the right way to be stitched.
If I tear this suit up in a crash that it should have survived, I will happily admit I went too cheap! I wish some of you guys were local and could give me a hands on review of it rather than "it's $200, it must be junk".

Matt
'09 C14
'98 DR-350
'11 Suzuki C50T wife's ride since she hates my Connie
'03 Honda CBR600RR track bike

Offline galaxieman

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Re: Jackets4bikes????
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2012, 12:07:09 PM »
The Frank Thomas stuff was pretty decent (as is the current CG Sedici line), and when they were phasing those out you could grab 1-piece suits for $200-ish, so believe me, I understand.  The BILT jackets are somewhat below 'meh', and I would NOT recommend their gloves, based on trying them on.  Something to remember for manufacturing though, is that while it costs you $XX.XX more to do a simple upgrade, that's $XX.XX out of your pocket, once.  The manufacturer will probably get better volume pricing, but it still costs more, and when a suit is priced in the $200 range, there isn't a lot of profit margin built in. 

For example, I've got a Speed and Strength Hell & Back jacket which has waterproof zippers in the shell, and they're kinda crap ( the rest of the jacket is awesome, so I'm dealing with it).  The YKK equivalents probably would have cost an extra $5-8 to upgrade the whole jacket, but multiply that cost across the number of jackets at that price point and you can see how that much more cost would drive the profitability down for the manufacturer.  Manufacturer -> Distributor -> Dealer... each step has to make something or they won't stay in business, and adding 4% to the price to build an item without raising the end price cuts into the margins.
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