MC Enterprises Concours Canyon Cage Discussion

[Gumby]

Question for those of you following this thread: How important is the incorporation of a polyethylene (delrin) bumper?

Armando (our in-house Tech) and I have come up with a really nifty preliminary design that would allow for the bars to be "quick-released" to allow easier access to the fairing. It's not quite a cotter pin design but you'd only have to undo two external bolts per side to remove the bars; less than a 2 minute job per side. The great thing about this design is it would also allow for easy incorporation of an optional polyethylene bumper. Oh, and this design does not require drilling as of yet! We're really banging on all cylinders here today. I'll post some pictures once I have a bar bent and tack welded in place!

I really like the idea of a replaceable bumper. If the bike is dropped or knocked over in a parking-lot, I think the ability to replace a scratched up puck is more desirable than painting or replacing a bar. I received my rear guards yesterday and I was talking to another member about putting a bumper on it. I was thinking of attaching it with a hose clamp of some sort, or maybe the plastic wraps around the bar and basically snaps on covering several inches of an impact area. MCE could design and sell these pieces to go with the guards, as well as sell them separately.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

I really like the idea of a replaceable bumper. If the bike is dropped or knocked over in a parking-lot, I think the ability to replace a scratched up puck is more desirable than painting or replacing a bar.

Precisely what I was thinking! This will also help keep repair costs on the low side. Once the bar is tacked and bent properly I'll take some photos so you guys can see what I'm talking about.

I see what you're saying about mounting similar types of bumpers on the rear but I don't know if it'd be as easy as you're making it sound. What we're looking at for the front is something like this:http://www.budwig.com/round-polyethylene-feet.html. These would easily attach to an external bolt location that we've worked into the design of the bar itself so it looks like it belongs there, it's not just some plastic piece randomly hanging off the bar. The incorporation of these tips isn't for sure yet though. I'm still trying to locate the correct size we need but I think it'd be a great addition to the bar if we could make it work.

[Gumby]

I see what you're saying about mounting similar types of bumpers on the rear but I don't know if it'd be as easy as you're making it sound.

The more I think about this the easier it gets.  Once the design is agreed upon send the new canyon cage along with a rear guard to a company that works with polyethlene. I would think they could design a cast, for lack of a better term, then cut a slot out of the back so it would snap tightly on the bar. Just a thought.

I do like the puck type as they would protect more in a slide situation, but it is also an ugly black thing sticking off the side of my bike.

Let's get some other guys to voice their opinions. I can always agree to disagree. 

[Conrad]

I received my rear guards yesterday and I was talking to another member about putting a bumper on it. I was thinking of attaching it with a hose clamp of some sort, or maybe the plastic wraps around the bar and basically snaps on covering several inches of an impact area. MCE could design and sell these pieces to go with the guards, as well as sell them separately.

Really? Boy, I don't know. Those rear guards ain't gonna win any beauty contests as they are let alone with some hose clamped bumpers added. Know wut I mean Vern?   

[Gumby]

Those rear guards ain't gonna win any beauty contests as they are let alone with some hose clamped bumpers added. Know wut I mean Vern?   

I hear ya Conrad, but a small plastic sleeve would be cheaper to replace than buying new guards.

You do realize how mechanically inept Jay is don't you. He is not the best guy for me to be bouncing design ideas off of in the first place. 

[ZG]

You do realize how mechanically inept Jay is don't you. He is not the best guy for me to be bouncing design ideas off of in the first place. 

[RyanMCEnterprises]

I hear ya Conrad, but a small plastic sleeve would be cheaper to replace than buying new guards.

I don't mean this the wrong way but I kinda see this as another expensive piece to replace in the case of an accident. Sure, it may protect the bars from minor dings and scratches but if you go down, you have to worry about the bar bending moreso than minor scratches. The cost of polyoxymethylene isn't cheap, either. There's a reason generic frame sliders are $50+. You could bet your buns a custom molded delrin cover would run you probably close to $100-$125 at the low end. You're better off just replacing the entire one side for $87.50 (the price we charge for a single side replacement of the small rear guards).

The good thing about the bumpers we're considering for the Canyon Cage is they can be easily removed in minutes or less for those of you who don't like the look of 'em.

[Conrad]

I hear ya Conrad, but a small plastic sleeve would be cheaper to replace than buying new guards.

You do realize how mechanically inept Jay is don't you. He is not the best guy for me to be bouncing design ideas off of in the first place. 

I know what you mean man, poor J. I'm thinking that he's had something bounced off of him once too many times.   

[Conrad]

Holy crap J!!!! I hope like hell that the beer glass was empty? No reason to waste good beer like that!!! 

[Gumby]

I'll pipe down now and wait for pictures.

 

[Son of Pappy]

http://catalog.fluoropolymerproducts.com/viewitems/ptfe-and-teflon-sheet/ptfe-and-teflon-sheet-2

How about something along these lines?  Cut to fit, apply some heat, and glue in place.  The idea is protection for a tip over, right?

I had heard that black bikes are more prone to the effects of gravity

[ZG]

I hear ya Conrad, but a small plastic sleeve would be cheaper to replace than buying new guards.

You do realize how mechanically inept Jay is don't you. He is not the best guy for me to be bouncing design ideas off of in the first place. 

I know what you mean man, poor J. I'm thinking that he's had something bounced off of him once too many times.   

I'll pipe down now and wait for pictures.

 

 

 
  
 
 
You guys are just halarious aren't ya!!
 
I can't help it if I don't want grease under my nails and want to keep my hands silky smooth for the ladies...  

[Conrad]

 
You guys are just halarious aren't ya!!
 
I can't help it if I don't want grease under my nails and want to keep my hands silky smooth for the ladies...  

Oh, I see how it is now Mr Soft Hands. 

[RBX QB]

... What we're looking at for the front is something like this:http://www.budwig.com/round-polyethylene-feet.html. These would easily attach to an external bolt location that we've worked into the design of the bar itself so it looks like it belongs there, it's not just some plastic piece randomly hanging off the bar. ...

I think you're thought process is sound (from my perspective). NOT having pucks would not prevent me from buying a product, but having pucks that look odd WOULD prevent me from buying a product, if that makes sense.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

I think you're thought process is sound (from my perspective). NOT having pucks would not prevent me from buying a product, but having pucks that look odd WOULD prevent me from buying a product, if that makes sense.

That makes total sense! You'd rather have it there but only if it looks good. If it looks funky or out-of-place, it's better to just leave it out.

[ZG]

I think the "concept" of a hard plastic type piece that could be replaced in the event of a tip-over and also provide a little more of a cushion for a softer landing that LivnLoud was trying to describe came from him and I talking yesterday and I was pointing out that on the Top-Block sliders the pieces that would actually hit the ground if you went over are a hard plastic, and that if those got dinged/chewed up in a tip-over you can just replace those plastics (sold individually by Top-Block) instead of replacing the entire metal arm...
 
Does that make more sense?
 
See pic below of the plastic pieces I'm referring to used in the Top-Block sliders and see the drawing attached to see how that plastic piece goes over top of the actuall metal bar...
 
 

 

[RyanMCEnterprises]

I understand what he was getting at and we're attempting to incorporate something similar for the Canyon Cages with the addition of that delrin stopper. I just don't see it being financially viable for the small rears as a custom piece like that would cost us quite a bit to have molded and made and would probably run $85-$125 to the end customer. If the plastic piece is nearly $100 to replace anyway, why not just replace the entire small rear bar for the $87.50 we currently charge?

Any idea how much TopBlock charges to replace just the plastic piece? If the set is nearly $700 you can bet it's a pretty penny to replace just the plastic piece. Keep in mind, although it looks like it, this stuff is not just your generic cheap plastic. It's, more than likely, some type of polyethylene or polyoxyethylene which can be very pricey.

It's a great idea in theory and I could see how it works for TopBlock (because that piece is the bulk of their bar) but for our application, I just don't think it's necessary.

[ZG]

Any idea how much TopBlock charges to replace just the plastic piece? If the set is nearly $700 you can bet it's a pretty penny to replace just the plastic piece.

$85 per (+ shipping from France of course), so call it about a hundred bucks per plastic piece. But I tell you what it beats the hell out of buying another entire set for $700...

[556ALPHA]

Will the new bars fit both of the C14 generations or just the second?

[RyanMCEnterprises]

$85 per (+ shipping from France of course), so call it about a hundred bucks per plastic piece. But I tell you what it beats the hell out of buying another entire set for $700...

Oh, I totally agree. $85 repair > $700 repair.

That's why it doesn't make much sense for our specific application, though. The cost to replace a single side of our small rears is only $87.50 so it's worth it to just replace the entire thing if the bar is damaged. However, on the Canyon Cage, it'd be nice to only have the plastic stopper piece to replace in a tip-over. Although, with the way we have the bar designed now (you'll see what I mean when I get some photos), we've really minimized the amount of stuff that needs to be replaced in case of a tip-over, even if the bar gets thrashed. The bar is sort of segmented to allow for "quick-release" and to help keep repair costs low.