Author Topic: Fines for loud bikes  (Read 11410 times)

Offline Coomers

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Fines for loud bikes
« on: February 21, 2012, 09:42:33 PM »
Anybody know how many dBA’s our Conny’s make with a full Area P system at 5000 RPM?

We now have a new bylaw here stating if the bike makes more than 100dBA that you will be fined between $400 – $25,000 for your first offense and up to $50,000 for your second offense.


Offline texrider

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 09:49:11 PM »
A by-law, as in some HOA? Better move out...
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Flathead

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 09:54:22 PM »
100Db is pretty loud... Check the comparisons here: http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html


Son of Pappy

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 10:27:04 PM »
I want to say it is around 92, we did some testing a coupla years ago and I was right at the acceptable limit for a bike I could ride to classes.  I will see if they still have the data.  I also know that the db rating is stepped based on displacement, at least in WA State.  I'll send off an email after posting ot the folks I work for, should have an answer in a day or two.  If I haven't replied back by Friday, shoot me a PM, CRS sucks!!!

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 04:22:34 AM »
98 to 99 dBA

You know, it's on their website....

http://www.areapnolimits.com/products/Slip-On-Exhaust-Kawasaki-Concours-14-2008.php

So, you're doing 5k rpm in a subdivision?  If so, then lower the rpms until you leave.
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Flathead

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 05:37:38 AM »
98 to 99 dBA

You know, it's on their website....

http://www.areapnolimits.com/products/Slip-On-Exhaust-Kawasaki-Concours-14-2008.php

So, you're doing 5k rpm in a subdivision?  If so, then lower the rpms until you leave.

Could be Maine: http://motorsportsnewswire.wordpress.com/tag/100-dba/ but I guess the same applies, lower the RPM ;D

Offline Coomers

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 06:58:27 AM »
Thanks for all your replies. According to the website it is 98-99dBA at 5000 rpm. That is awfully close and this may change once I add the ZX14 TB’S that I have on my bench.

This isn’t a HOA it is the city of Oakville just outside of Toronto Ontario, they are taking the lead from another community called Caledon just north of them. The law is if the police suspect that your bike has an aftermarket exhaust, they are allowed to pull you over and test your bike. Depending on the number of cylinders if it is more that 100dBA at 20”at 5000rpm you’re done.

I thought I would be ok then yesterday I ran the bike up to 5000rpm wile on the stand, something I have never done before and was surprised how loud it was. It certainly doesn’t sound that loud while riding.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 07:18:27 AM »
That's cause it's all behind you...
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Offline So Cal Joe

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 07:53:20 AM »
There are several states with noise laws and laws requiring that the exhaust systems be OEM and not altered. But I have yet to see or hear of anyone getting pulled over for it. Not saying it couldn't happen, but the possibility is slim I think.

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Offline Boomer

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 08:50:57 AM »
I would advise verifying how Area-P measured their quoted value and how the Police will be checking it.
dBA is a standard method for measuring sound pressure level but the value will change depending on how it is measured.
Variables include the distance from the source, the angle relative to the source, and the type of sound.
Some harsher noises may "sound" louder than other softer noises but are in fact the same.
This is due to our perception of what we hear.
Motorcycle engines normally fall into the harsher category but you should be fine.
Most of the bikes this type of legislation is aimed at are the open-piped Hardleys and streetbikes running race mufflers.
If your muffler is sold as street legal then it should be fine.
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Offline Bosco

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 10:02:26 AM »
Why not ask to have it tested by the police. Then if pulled over you can show the test to the cop.
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Offline sherob

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2012, 10:34:53 AM »
I would advise verifying how Area-P measured their quoted value and how the Police will be checking it.
dBA is a standard method for measuring sound pressure level but the value will change depending on how it is measured.
Variables include the distance from the source, the angle relative to the source, and the type of sound.
Some harsher noises may "sound" louder than other softer noises but are in fact the same.
This is due to our perception of what we hear.
Motorcycle engines normally fall into the harsher category but you should be fine.
Most of the bikes this type of legislation is aimed at are the open-piped Hardleys and streetbikes running race mufflers.
If your muffler is sold as street legal then it should be fine.

If it doesn't have an EPA stamp on it, he can still be fined.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2012, 10:58:12 AM »
.....Less than 100dBA at 20”at 5000rpm

20 inches....Good luck on that one...... ::)
I believe most ordinances are measured 6-8 FEET from the bike....

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Offline RBX QB

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2012, 11:03:34 AM »
If it doesn't have an EPA stamp on it, he can still be fined.

Does the EPA have jurisdiction in Canada?

100dB is pretty loud... I don't think I'd want something that loud on my bike... except for the horn, of course.

The fact that his community has recently passed this means that they WILL be looking for it, at least for a while. I'm with Bosco... confirm that their criteria is 5000 RPM at 20", and try to run that test yourself... so you are informed if you ever get pulled over.
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2012, 12:30:01 PM »
It can't be more than 100dBA @ 20 inches? That's ridiculous. 20 feet I could see...

I'm gonna get my sound level meter out and see how loud my Area P slip on is.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2012, 01:03:18 PM »
No, all- powerful as the EPA can be, its jurisdiction does not cross international borders.

We are seeing a lot of motorcycle exhaust attention from LEO's here in the northeast US too. It is the result of so many bikes with open pipes and the fact that exhaust rules (both emissions and noise) have not really been enforced for quite a few years and the situation has gotten out of hand.

As someone already said, all exhausts used on motorcycles in the US have to be qualified by the fed. gov't. Further, the exhausts are qualified on a specific motorcycle. Factory mufflers carry a certification number while most aftermarket exhausts do not. So an aftermarket exhaust is technically illegal because it has not specifically been made legal (kind of backwards but this is how it works) What we are seeing here is that blanket law being applied to specific motorcycles; an LEO rarely bothers anyone unless the bike hurt his ears and shook the car windows in the first place. Upon inspection, it turns out to be an uncertified exhaust.

Several communities in this area are also using pretty large fines for bikes that are "too loud". The problem is trying to define an actual sound pressure measurement; it is difficult to get a valid measurement and even things like what kind of ground is under the vehicle makes large changes in the readings so it is easy to challenge any tickets in court. But just finding an aftermarket (and uncertified) exhaust on a motorcycle is a much easier way to ticket the rider without having to quantify or measure anything like the actual sound output.

Brian


Does the EPA have jurisdiction in Canada?

100dB is pretty loud... I don't think I'd want something that loud on my bike... except for the horn, of course.

The fact that his community has recently passed this means that they WILL be looking for it, at least for a while. I'm with Bosco... confirm that their criteria is 5000 RPM at 20", and try to run that test yourself... so you are informed if you ever get pulled over.
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Offline Dolittle

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2012, 01:59:42 PM »
The Harleys around here will have to go first , because there are all straight pipes.yes the full area p is  loud  but not as loud as the Harleys. Here in south west Pa. ;D

Offline Scaffolder

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2012, 02:07:35 PM »
Maine is tough. There is a biker bar in Southern Maine called Bentley's. This place gets bikes from all over. I think they even have a campground at it. After Maine pushed the aftermarket exhaust law, they simply grabbed all the bikes going to this place from all directions. Probably hundreds of tickets (if not thousands) once the law passed. I have left mine stock, because I run through 3 states daily and they all have different rules.
Joel from Maine.

Offline Coomers

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2012, 02:21:25 PM »
Area P took its measurements from a 45 degree angle. I bet the average cop wouldn’t know to do that.

I like Bosco’s suggestion of going to the police station and having it tested. If it passes then I have something to show the cop if I get pulled over or the judge.

Offline sherob

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Re: Fines for loud bikes
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2012, 02:21:27 PM »
Does the EPA have jurisdiction in Canada?


My bad.  No, but CEPA basically follows EPA rules for simplicity... so... never know.
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