Author Topic: Painting the C14  (Read 21235 times)

Offline ZG

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2011, 07:38:23 PM »


I've always liked the two/three tone jobs a lot of the sport bikes had in the 90's too.  Suzuki and Honda had some nice three color combinations.



Indeed!! My 91 Gixxer, awesome three color combo from Suzuki! :thumbs:






Offline AKwhite

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2011, 05:27:04 AM »
I totally agree with the above comments, easier off than on, costs a bundle, and how boring can you get with the colors provided. If you do it, take photos as you go and notes as to what fasteners go where. Then at re-assembly you'll have notes to add to the confusion!




Philip, how did you manage to get those two mirror covers off without loosing one of the little latches ?  :P

Offline RBX QB

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2012, 03:22:58 PM »
Philip, how did you manage to get those two mirror covers off without loosing one of the little latches ?  :P

BUMP::: Trying to pull the painted panels off the mirrors, but I'm afraid of busting them. Anyone have advice?
2011 Concours 14 ABS
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Offline Jeremy Mitchell

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2012, 04:05:02 PM »
BUMP::: Trying to pull the painted panels off the mirrors, but I'm afraid of busting them. Anyone have advice?

I started from the bottom outside corner with an old credit card and pulled up till I could start pulling at it with a finger and made sure I pulled as straight up as possible.  It felt like I was going to break it but I never did. 
Keeping the economy going, one tank of fuel and two tires at a time.

Offline mikeboileau

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2012, 12:41:12 PM »
I still haven't painted mine........

Offline RBX QB

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2012, 01:49:05 PM »
I started from the bottom outside corner with an old credit card and pulled up till I could start pulling at it with a finger and made sure I pulled as straight up as possible.  It felt like I was going to break it but I never did.

Thanks Jeremy.

Okay... that sucked... but they did come off, and I only bent one tab of the 8 that hold those on (easy fix).
2011 Concours 14 ABS
2̶0̶0̶6̶ ̶D̶u̶c̶a̶t̶i̶ ̶M̶o̶n̶s̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶S̶2̶R̶D̶  SOLD

Offline OregonLAN

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2012, 03:59:41 PM »
Guitar picks work well for prying/removing plastic pieces that are snapped together. On stubborn pieces, you can use several picks, like shims, to work your way around the edges until the plastic releases. I use them all the time to take apart cell phones; not sure if it applies here...

As for colors I would suggest going to an automotive paint supplier and taking a look at their books.

Offline Zixxer10r

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2012, 12:13:30 PM »
What kind of prices are you guys running into for a full color makeover?  I fell in love with the '06 ZX10r green and i'd love to see it on mine. 

Offline Kinetic1

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2012, 12:45:22 PM »
Mine will be painted this winter. Any tips or tricks would be appreciated for sure.
No, really, she is the best and I can prove it...

Connie has been sold. Replaced with 2013 Aprilia Tuono V4 APRC

Offline OregonLAN

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2012, 02:41:56 PM »
What kind of prices are you guys running into for a full color makeover?  I fell in love with the '06 ZX10r green and i'd love to see it on mine.

To have it professionally painted, you're are looking at ~$1500.00 for a single 2K color (minimum). If you had the tools and facility to do it yourself, you're probably looking at ~$400.00 in materials alone.

I've done a bit of painting; It's definitely not rocket science. With enough prep work and patience, a custom paint job will blow away any factory finish...


Offline RBX QB

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2012, 02:53:19 PM »
In reading other threads about this, and talking to a few shops... a decent paint job should be in the $2000-$2500 range, and that's assuming that you pull the plastics yourself.

Plastics are easy, just take your time and look online (or ask) if you have pieces that you can't figure out how to get them off. A decent small flashlight also helps in looking into areas to see how they fit together.

I found a shop that was willing to give me a better price because I prepped the panels myself (pulled all stickers and emblems, removed all foam and rubber pads, scuffed/deglossed the painted surfaces). If your panels are clean and don't have any deep scratches or chips, there's not a lot of prep needed before you lay down primers/adhesion promoters and paint.


Here are a few tips and things I learned from when I pulled mine off for paint:

- Small ziplock bags, the kind with the writable panel,  so you can label where the fasteners you removed come from (ie "right front fairing", "left dash panel", or whatever makes sense to you). Keep a separate bag for each panel and/or area. Of course, if you can also take pictures as you go, those could help, too.

- For panels with 2 similar (but different length) screws/bolts, I actually put the screws/bolts back where they came from, and just put masking tape over them to keep paint off. I did this a lot with bolts that stayed on the frame (not the tape part).

- Rubber well nuts are easier to actually PUSH thru the panel they are in, instead of PULLING them out. They actually push thru quite easily. Putting them back is still just pushing them in from the front (one way rubber, basically). If you have an older bike, this may not work if the rubber has become less pliable.

- The various heat shields are kind of expensive to replace, so cover with paper and masking tape. The foil ones are kind of fragile if you have super sticky tape, so test a small area to see how much grip your tape has.

- Remove mirrors via the three screws at the bottom of the mirror BEFORE you remove the mount from the bike. You don't HAVE to do this, I just found it easier to deal with the mounts on the bike without the weight of the mirror and it's housing. There are 3 nuts holding the mount to the bike, and one of them is REALLY annoying to get access to, so when you reassemble, install the mirror mounts BEFORE you reinstall the lower front fairings... this makes it easier to recover any nut that may try to escape from the mirror mount.

- Run your tank out of gas before you start. My timing was off, and I had most of a tank when I started disassembly. I bought a hand pump to take the gas out from the top, but it got stuck on the fuel level sender and the top of the gashole. The shape of our tanks makes what I did a bit of a chore. I also pulled the sender and pump out of the tank to ensure that those connections didn't get damaged during the prep and paint.


I can't think of any "holy crap" things that came up during disassembly or reassembly, just these few things that I mentioned above. Take your time, write things downm and take pictures if you can. I think it's a really good process to get to know the bike.
2011 Concours 14 ABS
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Offline OregonLAN

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2012, 03:08:25 PM »
Mine will be painted this winter. Any tips or tricks would be appreciated for sure.

Kinetic, there are a million tutorials on the Internet that can explain it better than I can. Use Google and You Tube as your resources.

Just remember, painting is 90% prep, 5% paint and 5% finishing. Don't fixate on the supplies and tools like I did my first time. :)

Offline Kinetic1

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2012, 10:44:28 AM »
Thanks, I've done some paint work but I have found I lack the required patience to get a really nice product. I think I am just going to have it done professionally.
No, really, she is the best and I can prove it...

Connie has been sold. Replaced with 2013 Aprilia Tuono V4 APRC

Breaker19

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2012, 04:40:04 PM »
I totally agree with the above comments, easier off than on, costs a bundle, and how boring can you get with the colors provided. If you do it, take photos as you go and notes as to what fasteners go where. Then at re-assembly you'll have notes to add to the confusion!





I'm assuming you shot that much material with a gun, did you use acrylic lacquer or enamel? How about your clear coats? I'd be interested in the process, not because I wish to paint anything, but just for the info. I've done some painting on my vintage resto's and it ain't terribly fun, that's for sure.

Breaker19

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2012, 04:55:00 PM »
I've had some success in painting older bikes, on this Seca I painted everything except the tank and front fender. Color matching was done by the layers, or amount of the metallic candy red applied over a gold base coat. The more coats, the darker the color. Took some practice and do-overs. I shot this with a gun but used a rattle-can clear-coat, which I found to be more controllable and forgiving than the gun clear.

The bikini fairing was particularly daunting, since the size was larger than any other single part sprayed, and I had to apply the decals after the final base coat was wet sanded but before clearing, actually to all the parts. The clear went over the decals. The decals were designed for this.




In the KZ project, all I painted was the Vetter staddlebag covers and one side cover. I found a current Toyota Metallic Red color that matched perfectly so I did all that rattle can, DupliColor. The gold pin striping was also auto-parts store grade but likewise, matched perfectly. I clear coated (rattle can also) over the striping. Very light sanding of the clear before buffing. They came out pretty decent. I actually didn't want it too "perfect" since I wasn't painting the majority of the bike, I wanted simply to "match" the existing patina, so to speak.





Offline EpicBadass

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2012, 12:34:33 AM »
If there weren't so many panels on the C14 I would have painted mine a little while ago, although it would be hard to go a day or two without riding it.  ;D

Here's a bit of advice as someone from the industry having both worked in shops as well as currently managing a paint store.

If you're looking to DIY here is my advice to you on products (note there are many brands out there, and for a project like this, paint IS paint relatively speaking, do not get too caught up in brand.)

-Single stage finish-
If you're looking at doing a single stage DO NOT do it for the sole factor of it being easier (one step)  The reason I say this is most people will generally pick a metallic or pearlescent color, and when spraying a single stage they are considerably harder to get the color to lay out correctly while getting a nice finish.  If you're seasoned painter or had your hands dirty with paint a few times it may be easier but if you're just starting out unless its a plain 'ol solid color, just go base/clear.  In my store I had my assistant (who has no spraying experience) spray a panel with the same blue metallic color code in both a Single stage and a base/clear as a display for us to help demonstrate the difference between the two.  You'd find that the pearl/metallic lay out much better in the base as well as there was considerably less orange peel in the BC.

-Base/Clear-
Really this is the all around best and easiest option to spray regardless of skill level.  If you're using a color that has a high concentration of metallic or pearl it is a LOT easier to get good metallic orientation and keep striping and mottling to a minimum.  While it does cost a little more, from my experience of quoting and selling the two a comparable base/clear and metallic will not be too terribly different.  As for the Base/clear if you're painting the whole bike or vehicle you can generally use a cheaper basecoat system (such as Omni (PPG), Dimension (SW), Nason (Dupont) etc).  The main difference between the lower/mid level paint lines and the premium lines of paint within the brands is a LOT of money. The reason the premium lines cost a lot more is they have considerably better color match for a bodyshop to use day in day out for small repairs.  For the lines I just mentioned they are what we would call a "jamb match", and the theory of this is if you're painting the whole car the color will be close enough you wont notice a difference to the door jambs.  So in other words if you're doing a full paintjob save the money, you aren't buying a much better product itself, if anything spend extra on the clear and get a nice high solids clear. 


One other note on BC:

Looking through this thread Ive seen numerous mentions of spray cans being used to paint bikes and I thought I'd touch on this a bit (I sell them all day long to DIY'ers)  I'd avoid using a single stage as generally ive never seen them hold as high of a gloss level coming out of an aerosol.  The basecoat works just fine in a spray can often times however the most important thing I could recommend on using spray cans is using a NICE CLEAR.  I would highly highly HIGHLY recommend you use a 2k spraycan (Spraymax for example), and here are the reasons. 
1) It holds a MUCH higher gloss level over time than a non catalyzed can
2) The downside of using an air dry clear without a chemical catalyst is that it never gets the chemical kick- if you get a solvent on the paint to sit on it for a little while it can WASH the paint right off.  The reason I like to point this out is if you paint your gas tank, you are really risking a lot of trouble because I don't know about you guys but I do get just a little gas spilling onto the tank when i fill up quite often! - I've actually had people come back to my store after this has happened)
The spraymax cans are about $20 bucks/can and trust me, I know you can find oddball spray cans of clear for $5 at whatever store, but you would be very dissapointed if you saw the difference between the two sprayed out. 


Here is another tip on those of you doing some sort of design and why you'll love base/clear:

My old vulcan 900 shortly before I sold it


I did the ghost flames in the same candy green as the rest of the bike (gets darker the more that is applied).  So obviously with another extra two coats of color there is going to be a little bit of a bump in the paint even after you clear it.  The nice thing on base/clear is you can sand it back down with 800/1000 and sand a lot of the transition edge out and then reclear it like I did on this bike.  It'll make the edge invisible and give you a show finish (that's what many guys will do when spraying a show car)  So if you're doing decals, stripes, color breaks mid-panel etc its a very nice thing to do to make it look better than OEM.

Here is the bike before it was green after I shot it red alongside my dad's which I also sprayed.  Note both bikes had the tanks and fenders cut and recleared and from back here you can't even make the flames out on the red and the blue you can only see see the reflection of them but no outline.


Alright, well I'm done rambling for now.  If anyone wants some honest help from someone who sells paint to DIY folks as well as sprayed a lot of motorcycles (or even the same one many times  ;D) feel free to post questions and/or shoot me a PM, not trying to thread jack lol.

Offline OregonLAN

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2012, 08:52:13 AM »

If you're looking to DIY here is my advice to you on products (note there are many brands out there, and for a project like this, paint IS paint relatively speaking, do not get too caught up in brand.)

^^ What he said.

Don't fixate on the types of paints or equipment too much. Top shelf paints are sometimes more refined, but unless you are a seasoned professional, you will never notice the difference. It's a plastic motorcycle, not a classic/collectible car after all. Also, stay away from rattle can and 1K (single stage) paints. 

For my very first project, I spent a ton of cash on spray guns, compressors, top shelf paints, cc, reducers and additives. The paint supply store saw me coming from a mile away. Everything turned out good, but I could have saved a ton of cash using lesser expensive paints and equipment. I learned my lesson and bought cheaper "industrial" grade paints for some of my other projects. The results were the same at a fraction of the price...

Offline Kinetic1

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2012, 11:36:27 AM »
I was planning on telling the painter to use Dupont Imron 6000. It is the most durable paint I know of. Is there soemthing better?
No, really, she is the best and I can prove it...

Connie has been sold. Replaced with 2013 Aprilia Tuono V4 APRC

Breaker19

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2012, 03:57:31 PM »
If there weren't so many panels on the C14 I would have painted mine a little while ago, although it would be hard to go a day or two without riding it.  ;D

Here's a bit of advice as someone from the industry having both worked in shops as well as currently managing a paint store.

If you're looking to DIY here is my advice to you on products (note there are many brands out there, and for a project like this, paint IS paint relatively speaking, do not get too caught up in brand.)

-Single stage finish-
If you're looking at doing a single stage DO NOT do it for the sole factor of it being easier (one step)  The reason I say this is most people will generally pick a metallic or pearlescent color, and when spraying a single stage they are considerably harder to get the color to lay out correctly while getting a nice finish.  If you're seasoned painter or had your hands dirty with paint a few times it may be easier but if you're just starting out unless its a plain 'ol solid color, just go base/clear.  In my store I had my assistant (who has no spraying experience) spray a panel with the same blue metallic color code in both a Single stage and a base/clear as a display for us to help demonstrate the difference between the two.  You'd find that the pearl/metallic lay out much better in the base as well as there was considerably less orange peel in the BC.

-Base/Clear-
Really this is the all around best and easiest option to spray regardless of skill level.  If you're using a color that has a high concentration of metallic or pearl it is a LOT easier to get good metallic orientation and keep striping and mottling to a minimum.  While it does cost a little more, from my experience of quoting and selling the two a comparable base/clear and metallic will not be too terribly different.  As for the Base/clear if you're painting the whole bike or vehicle you can generally use a cheaper basecoat system (such as Omni (PPG), Dimension (SW), Nason (Dupont) etc).  The main difference between the lower/mid level paint lines and the premium lines of paint within the brands is a LOT of money. The reason the premium lines cost a lot more is they have considerably better color match for a bodyshop to use day in day out for small repairs.  For the lines I just mentioned they are what we would call a "jamb match", and the theory of this is if you're painting the whole car the color will be close enough you wont notice a difference to the door jambs.  So in other words if you're doing a full paintjob save the money, you aren't buying a much better product itself, if anything spend extra on the clear and get a nice high solids clear. 


One other note on BC:

Looking through this thread Ive seen numerous mentions of spray cans being used to paint bikes and I thought I'd touch on this a bit (I sell them all day long to DIY'ers)  I'd avoid using a single stage as generally ive never seen them hold as high of a gloss level coming out of an aerosol.  The basecoat works just fine in a spray can often times however the most important thing I could recommend on using spray cans is using a NICE CLEAR.  I would highly highly HIGHLY recommend you use a 2k spraycan (Spraymax for example), and here are the reasons. 
1) It holds a MUCH higher gloss level over time than a non catalyzed can
2) The downside of using an air dry clear without a chemical catalyst is that it never gets the chemical kick- if you get a solvent on the paint to sit on it for a little while it can WASH the paint right off.  The reason I like to point this out is if you paint your gas tank, you are really risking a lot of trouble because I don't know about you guys but I do get just a little gas spilling onto the tank when i fill up quite often! - I've actually had people come back to my store after this has happened)
The spraymax cans are about $20 bucks/can and trust me, I know you can find oddball spray cans of clear for $5 at whatever store, but you would be very dissapointed if you saw the difference between the two sprayed out. 


Here is another tip on those of you doing some sort of design and why you'll love base/clear:

My old vulcan 900 shortly before I sold it


I did the ghost flames in the same candy green as the rest of the bike (gets darker the more that is applied).  So obviously with another extra two coats of color there is going to be a little bit of a bump in the paint even after you clear it.  The nice thing on base/clear is you can sand it back down with 800/1000 and sand a lot of the transition edge out and then reclear it like I did on this bike.  It'll make the edge invisible and give you a show finish (that's what many guys will do when spraying a show car)  So if you're doing decals, stripes, color breaks mid-panel etc its a very nice thing to do to make it look better than OEM.

Here is the bike before it was green after I shot it red alongside my dad's which I also sprayed.  Note both bikes had the tanks and fenders cut and recleared and from back here you can't even make the flames out on the red and the blue you can only see see the reflection of them but no outline.


Alright, well I'm done rambling for now.  If anyone wants some honest help from someone who sells paint to DIY folks as well as sprayed a lot of motorcycles (or even the same one many times  ;D) feel free to post questions and/or shoot me a PM, not trying to thread jack lol.

Nice work, and thanks!

Offline Steve D

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Re: Painting the C14
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2012, 04:19:38 PM »
if you want to learn how to do it right get Kevin's DVD's.  I've got a handful of Best of Show and Best Paint trophies for my 69 Vette to prove he can teach a DIY'er how to paint.

http://www.paintucation.com/