Exhaust question

[stevewfl]

I appreciate it when my pipe is kept waxed and polished too.   

[maxtog]

#1. I am assuming nothing and going from experiance.  Every bike I have had (Well over 20) that I changed the exhaust to a better flowing system has improved MPG's including my 14.
#2. You are in the minority as far as looks go.  The vast majority find it to be an ugly, oversized heavy POS.
#3. The last 3 bikes I have had have all been FI.  All three have been improved performance wise with simply a slip on.  I have a Honda TRX700XX quad that is also FI and simply removing the restrictive baffle allows wheelies in 1-3 gears with no effort.  If that isn't increased performance I guess I'm clueless.

I do agree with you on the weight not making a difference.

You are right about me being in the minority on the looks of the stock muffler.  ZG already thinks I am a bit little crazy

But I still refuse to believe that ONLY swapping the stock muffler for an aftermarket one is going to affect the mileage or performance in some appreciable way on the Concours.   I respect your seat-of-the-pants assessment/experience, but would still require dyno before, dyno after as proof.  Remember, I am not talking about tuning the FI, changing the pipes, or anything else... just swapping a muffler.

As a posit- if the stock muffler were so overly restrictive, then why wouldn't have Kawasaki spent LESS money by using a smaller diameter pipe system to match it.... which would also saved weight and increased fuel economy?

And I will clarify my position- I *do* believe that replacing the stock muffler is prudent if one is planning OTHER significant modifications to increase performance.

[maxtog]

You really shouldn't presume to know what motivates 'most people' to go with an aftermarket exhaust on this forum, I think that you’d presume wrong.

I was speaking "in general", not specifically of just forum members.  It might very well be that the forum members are more likely not like most people....   My comment was a bit harsh and could easily have been reworded as such:

"I believe that most people who change only the stock muffler do so to affect the sound, improve the looks (because they don't like the stock look themselves or believe others do not like it),  in hopes that it would increase performance, or to make it appear to others that it would be higher performance".

That is my politically correct moment.  Now I can go back to being grumpy!!

[ZG]

I appreciate it when my pipe is kept waxed and polished too.   

 

[katata1100]

As a posit- if the stock muffler were so overly restrictive, then why wouldn't have Kawasaki spent LESS money by using a smaller diameter pipe system to match it.... which would also saved weight and increased fuel economy?

Smaller pipes don't improve fuel economy. FWIW, Kawa DID put small diameter pipes
on these bikes. To use the old saying, an engine is a big pump and exhaust size should match the size of the engine. Having said that, the header pipes are smaller than the ones on my 1100 and comparable to those on an old 550. This bike needs bigger pipes, they are a restriction and the dynoes of C14's with the full Area P exhaust prove this.

[VirginiaJim]

According to Area P you should NEVER have to repack theirs.  The only other maintenance is keeping the pipe waxed or polished.

You've got to wax or polish the pipe?  Well, that's off my list.   

[Conrad]

I was speaking "in general", not specifically of just forum members.  It might very well be that the forum members are more likely not like most people....   My comment was a bit harsh and could easily have been reworded as such:

"I believe that most people who change only the stock muffler do so to affect the sound, improve the looks (because they don't like the stock look themselves or believe others do not like it),  in hopes that it would increase performance, or to make it appear to others that it would be higher performance".

That is my politically correct moment.  Now I can go back to being grumpy!!

That's better but not quite there yet for me. I don't know about the others, I went with the Area P for ME, not for anyone else. I hated the look of the stocker and I wanted something smaller/lighter that made a lil noise when I wanted it to. Again, for myself. I don't care what anyone else thinks of it.

[kbryant]

You've got to wax or polish the pipe?  Well, that's off my list.   

  it referances only: "Carbon Fiber mufflers may be polished with a coat of quality automotive wax."  Not the entire system. 

[gflint]

Mighty got a significant change with his Diesel.  I installed 3in exhaust and a K&N tuned intake on an Avalanche.  I saw no measureable change in mpg but a significant change in low end power.  Different engines respond differently to exhaust and intake treatments.  The Avalanche went from a powerless dog to something pretty peppy.  The Concours with pipe and PCV seems to go from scary fun to just plain stupid fun.  Squeezing the max mpg out of the Concours seems a bit foolish.  If someone wants high mpg they should not buy a 1400 cc bike.  Buy a 650 that will cruise at 75 and get 50+ mpg.  I get in the high 20 mpg on the St Regis to St Maries run, 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear at 5000 to 8000 rpm for about 20 miles.  On the I-90 at 75 I am in the 45 mpg range.  No matter what the exhaust system those numbers are not going to change a whole lot.  The exhaust sound is kind of like the cherry on top of the whip cream on a shake, some like cherries, some don’t, but everybody likes shakes.  I am sure with a little work I can get cherries, whip cream and pipe polishing all connected but it is early and I still have some work to do, can’t go home yet.

[B1200]

I know this is in response to an old post but I am just getting back into riding after having to stop for about 7yrs.
I had an 08 with an Area P full exhaust, butterflies out,  Power Commander and K&N filter. Not what I would call extensive mods as most things are bolt on or plug and play. My bike hit 160hp on the dyno and actually had some git below 2500 rpm, unlike waiting til 3500-4000 on the stock bike. Yes it did decrease my mpg but I think that was more because of my weak will and not being able to resist the improved performance.
So with that being said I would like to ask members opinions on current mods such as those indicated above for a 2022 C14. As I said, I'm getting back into riding, (picking up a slightly used 22 tomorrow), and would like to know what others like since Area P no longer makes exhausts for the C14. Also, any opinions on an Ivan's refreshed ECU compared to a Power Commander?
Thanks to any for providing information.

[Freddy]

Get a flash from Steve.  Ivan cloned his and PC is old tech.  Steve will advise on exh mods if interested in such.

https://sites.google.com/view/shoodabenengineering/concours-14-ecu-flash

[maxtog]

+1 just get a ECU flash from Steve.

Changing the muffler does nothing for performance, it is just cosmetic or to create unnecessary noise (or maybe to save a little weight).  Changing the entire exhaust system is expensive and really doesn't do lot for performance either, it will shift some of the torque from lower RPM to higher RPM (which is really no advantage for the vast majority of use cases).  The C14 doesn't have an overly restrictive exhaust system like old bikes of the past.  Most of its "restriction" is in the stock maps inside the ECU....

Reflashing the ECU, on the other hand, is huge.  It gives more power overall (including peak), gets rid of the "lackluster zone" in the middle RPM, and (if you choose) also tames the hyper-throttle.  And with all that, my MPG actually went *up* a little with normal use- a clear indications of a good/effective tune.  The ECU reflash should easily surpass the results of a PC, overall, and is easy and "stock."  As far as I know, everyone who has done it has been very happy.

[B1200]

Darn thing is ugly and has to go.

[Freddy]

The Freddy Cut. 



Cut it in half, chuck half away and weld it back together.   

[maxtog]

Darn thing is ugly and has to go.

LOL

Really, it doesn't matter much if/when the panniers are on.  My panniers never come off.

[B1200]

Freddy that actually works. That is what kawasaki should have started with in the first place. Then we wouldn't have this problem, (ugly muffler eye trauma).
How does it sound?

[Freddy]

I did it by cutting the end plate off which allows the guts of the muffler to be withdrawn.  I then cut the shell in half at the same angle as the end plate and discarded the rear bit, then I cut the front section off the inlet pipe and welded a 2.5x9" hotdog resinator to the inlet pipe/front plate and welded a short bit of 2.5" pipe to the rear of the resinator so that when it was all back together the resinator outlet was positioned just inside the original outlet on the end plate.  It has a deep note and is somewhat loud that I really like, but I can't hear it at hiway speeds unless I raise the screen.   

[PH14]

Freddy that actually works. That is what kawasaki should have started with in the first place. Then we wouldn't have this problem, (ugly muffler eye trauma).
How does it sound?

It does work, and it does look good, but what Kawasaki made is good for what is intended. The exhaust does not end under the saddlebags. I want the exhaust to exit after the bags, and it does. Most aftermarket exhaust is fine, but some have been known to melt bags. Freddy's cut won't do that of course since it isn't radically shorter, and it is still the stock system, albeit shorter. The stock exhaust was designed for having the bags installed, proper performance, and to meet noise regulations. It does all of that well. It looks perfectly fine when the bags are on, which is how I use mine. If I wanted the bags off I would have kept my RC51.

[maxtog]

The stock exhaust was designed for having the bags installed, proper performance, and to meet noise regulations. It does all of that well. It looks perfectly fine when the bags are on, which is how I use mine.

Exactly how I would phrase it.  It looks fine with the panniers on (and freaky without them on, yet most of us have them on all the time), is efficient and reasonably quiet, and doesn't hurt performance.  Plus it is legal

I think they did a very good job, given the objectives.  My only complaint is the paint is stained dark on the silver outlet end (no cleaning will fix it), and a bit of the black paint on the side has flaked off in a few places.  I don't have any recent photos (and it is raining outside now, so not going out there), but this one was from 8 years ago and you can see the black spots starting back then- it is much worse now.

[Michelle]

The stock muffler is ugly. It was a compromise between price and noise, with looks a distant afterthought. The size of it only accentuates the lopsidedness and may have been more tolerable with duals like the zx14.

I have a standard-ish one with a lopsided 'don't ever leave the bags off' vibe - and a better one ...