So after her winter nap I go to start and have nothing.

[Freddy]

I just had a reply from Bud - he's unable to do the detour due to time constraints.  I've asked him if he can do it if you take the bike to Flatwoods.

[dl1911]

Feddy,

Thank you so much for contacting Bud. I can understand his hesitation on making the trip.

Unfortunately I cannot get to Flatwoods either because of work and I still dont have bike back from the dealer. Im going to call them today and tell them that I am done trying with them and go get it back.

Im going to keep searching the area to try and find someone that is willing and able to to do the reregister.

Thank you so much for the effort. Let me know if you hear of any other options.

[Freddy]

The FI ECU registration process is very simple.  Does the dealer actually have KDS?  I could give you the relevant pages of the KDS manual for him to follow.

Failing that you need to find another dealer or someone closer with KDS.

[dl1911]

Feddy,

They are a very large Kawasaki Dealer so Im almost positive they have the KDS software. I honestly do not know the reason they are being so hesitant in just doing what I asked of them.

Either they are not relaying the information I provided to the tech or they are trying to run up the hours on the diagnostics.

I will advise after I speak to them today.

[dl1911]

So just got off the phone with the dealer yet again.

He explained the "Kawasaki tech people said yet again it needs the wiring harness changed and unfortunately its no longer available"!!!! And even if it was available the cost would exceed the value of the machine!!!

I told him for the 4th time I have spent two years with this bike and educated myself on it. I already changed the wiring harness and the bike exhibited the exact same condition as before I changed it! All functions operating but no start!!

I then explained ALL I WANT DONE IS THE REPLACEMENT ECU REGISTERED. I told him please just do this if the bike doesnt run no harm no foul and I will come and get it.

I even went so far as to tell him where the information procedure for doing it is in the operating manual for the KDS.

This is like pulling teeth and I just dont understand why they are making it so damn difficult.

[tynesidebob]

Try putting this to Kawasaki USA.
They may turn out to be on your side.

[Freddy]

tsb's suggestion is worth a try.

As has been said, the C14 was the only Kaw bike with Kipass, so dealers don't get much practice with KDS, tho there are a dozen other models which KDS can be used on.

Section 3: Cable Connection . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
3.1 Required Tools . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
3.2 Connecting PC to ECU . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
3.2.1 ZG1400A/B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
3.2.2 ZX1200-A/B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
3.2.3 VN1500-P . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
3.2.4 VN1600, VN2000 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
3.2.5 ZX636, ZX600, ZR1000, ZR750, ZX1000-C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
3.2.6 JT1200B/D, JT1500A . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
3.2.7 VN900B/D . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
3.2.8 ER650, EX650 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
3.2.9 ZX1400 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
3.2.10 KLE650 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
3.2.11 ’07 ZR750/ZR1000 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
3.2.12 JT1500B/JT1500C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13
3.2.13 KSF450B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13
3.2.14 VN1500-J/LIN/R

The newer H2 SX SE is the only other Kaw to have Kipass (version 2). God help the owners when it comes time to diagnose and fix them, coz the dealer won't.  They also need the newer version of KDS, called K-TISC, to do it.   

Kawasaki now actually allows non-dealers to register with them so that they can access K-TISC for diagnostic purposes.  But all this is no help to dl.

[dl1911]

Tynesidebob,

Thank you for the comment and suggestion.

The only issue I have with going to Kawasaki USA is Im not really sure what to complain about.

Yes the dealer is being a pain in the rear getting them to do what I asked but is it because they dont know how or are they just running up labor hours for the diag.
Should Kawasaki make the KDS more affordable and available? Absolutely but I would imagine there is a huge legal hurdle to overcome in that arena. If they would make it available there would be more smaller non dealer shops attracted to working on these bikes. I realize the C14 doesnt break often but when it does it becomes a 600 lb brick.

I really enjoy this motorcycle like the rest of us but if I cannot get this issue resolved I will be forced to part it out or sell it at a loss. If this happens I will NEVER own another Kawasaki product for as long as I live that I can promise.

All Im trying to do is eliminate one more thing by registering the replacement ECU. It is just very frustrating that it has to be this difficult.

One of the hurdles I have had to overcome is a lot of the dealers I called about fixing this issue wouldnt even touch the bike because they said it was too old being a 2008! This is a shitty response from Kawasaki to say the least. If its too old then make the KDS available and affordable so guys can continue to enjoy these bikes!!

Im sorry guys Im done ranting. This has just been very frustrating. Thank you for all the help so far.

The saga continues.

[Freddy]

Understood.

I own an early Can-Am Spyder and am on SpyderLovers forum.  The 10 year old issue is now common there and Spyders are much more prone to failure that the C14.

Is there another dealer you can take it to after you ask if they can actually do that task?

[dl1911]

Freddy,

Well Im not sure on any dealer even remotely local to me. The dealer that has it now only took it because thats where I bought it new.

The biggest issue with most dealers is it is simply too old or they dont have KDS.

I have even contacted several performance shops and they all tell me the same thing. They can flash the ECU for performance but not do the registration.

I havent heard anything from the dealer where it is now. They have until Monday. That will be 5 weeks they have had it.

[dl1911]

Well.............Im freaking steamed!

So I called the dealer yesterday to get any updates if there was any and there was not other than oh that tech is swamped. The service writer tells me he is going to go talk to the tech directly and he will call me back by end of business. NO CALL!!!!!

I call today and of course the service writer I have been dealing with is "busy with another customer" so I say I'll wait. A few minutes pass and a different guy gets on the phone and proceeds to tell me that "They tried to register the new ECU and it wont pair to their software!! To say the very least I am pissed and I told this guy to have the original service writer call me ASAP with the bill total and Im coming to get it!!

So, they have had the bike 5 weeks, God knows how much of a bill Im going to have! To get NOTHING, NOTHING!!

I will NEVER own another Kawasaki product for as long as I live! I loved this bike but the service I have received from Kawasaki has been absolutely horrible.

Now to drive another hour to get a still dead motorcycle!

[Freddy]

   on the dealer.

[dl1911]

Quick update as Im still in a holding pattern.

So the Service Manager that is actually working on the bike called me yesterday. He kept telling me that "he needs the FOB from the host bike to register the KPASS ECU".

I said umm we arent trying to register the KPASS ECU but in fact the FI ECU. The KPASS system is working to my knowledge. I then explained that the info he needs is in the KDS operating manual not the factory service manual! His comment was Oh Ill have to see if I can find it!!

OMG I am educating these guys just so I can hopefully get my bike fixed.

Unbelievable but at least Im making some progress even if it is for nothing.

[Freddy]

 

[dl1911]

Update!!!!!

The Service manager installed the replacement ECU in my bike and ran a diag. He is telling me there were no codes with the exception of Code 1526. He did not attempt to register it to my bike.

This is the same number they told me showed up a few weeks ago with the original ECU.

I asked him if he called Kawasaki Tech to which he said he did and they told him that code does not exist and offered no help. The code is showing up just as a the number 1526 with no definition as to what it is.

Im starting to be inclined to think that maybe the ECU isnt my problem since this ghost code showed up with both the original and replacement ECUs? He said he ran diag on the KPASS and nothing appeared to be wrong with it. It is recognizing the FOBS and allowing everything else to function normally.

If I talk to him today Im going to ask him to attempt to register the replacement ECU and see what happens. (Not sure why he didnt do that when he had it in).

It is clear to me that these techs do not know much if anything about the KDS or diagnosing these bikes but at least this service manager seems to be attempting where the standard techs made no progress.

I even made the suggestion to him to go ahead and check for spark since they have wired spark testers.

Any ideas appreciated.

The saga continues!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Freddy]

I do not know or understand how he is getting a 4 digit fault code with KDS.  As said previously, KDS does not identify faults in that manner - as Kawasaki Tech said.  So I don't know what he's using/doing to see 1526.

But at least it seems to be progress - well, I hope it is. 

[dl1911]

Freddy,
Yes it seemed to confuse him as well. When he called Kawasaki Tech line they don't have any idea what is causing it either.

I was thinking I wish I could find someone to either build or rebuild the ecu and eliminate all the BS systems Kawasaki put on these bikes.

Build an ECU that Controls the engine to make it run and put a regular key on it instead of all the KPASS BS.

Frustration level +10 but not loosing hope. I want my bike back!

[Freddy]

There's a guy south of Akron OH who has KDS.  He may be able to help.  I'll see if I can link him up with you

[Bagger John]

There's a guy south of Akron OH who has KDS.  He may be able to help.  I'll see if I can link him up with you

I am he (as you are me...).

Let me peruse this entire thread. I hit the first and last pages, wanted to see if a resolution was found and saw the peculiar error. Have a suspicion or two but I want to read through and confirm a couple things.

OP, feel free to PM me.

[Bagger John]

OK - all caught up.

Here's my SWAG:

Since the existing FI ECU and the replacement part are showing the same fault code, I suspect that neither is registered at this point. Put slightly differently, the original unit somehow became unregistered.

(Embedded Systems Security Engineer Hat ON)
In a previous life I worked with early gen Trusted Platform Module (TPM) based embedded systems - this for the financial self service market. These devices are a very close analog of a C14 - that is, a central brain (PC, embedded controller) and peripherals (card readers, printers, KIPASS, FI module). One hopes they see where I'm going with the architecture comparisons.

In those embedded systems, all peripherals had to be registered with the host CPU via the TPM in order for them to work, and they communicated via encrypted channels. This was due to the fact that some were physically located in a higher trust zone than others. If you unplugged or attempted to sub another unit a certain number of times the host would de-register the device and make the service tech re-register them with special service routines.

I'm leaning towards that being the case here, as engineering principles and practices are often re-used - especially where system security is the focus. Kawasaki - like my prior employer - won't divulge many of its operational housekeeping codes, though getting at the routines in compiled code on a PC-based construct is a bit easier than its embedded CAN equivalent. Either mama Kawi isn't divulging that info or the service techs aren't as they're bound by NDA - but I have no way to prove it.
(Embedded Systems Security Engineer Hat OFF)

If I had my way I'd launch every mouse in existence into the deepest, darkest black hole I could reach and sleep like a baby for it...but someone's snakes would go hungry. What I suspect (and would be very difficult to reproduce, a magic bullet of sorts) is that a combination of mouse foolery, corroded wires and fluctuating voltage levels put just the wrong set of data on the bike's CANBUS line at precisly the most inopportune time and made the FI ECU become de-registered.

Dave, I am waiting on a couple cables (inbound this week) and will verify I can connect everything to my '08. Then if you want, we can try to register the original FI unit...then your replacement.