Installing throttle bodies

[Goat]

Has anyone swapped out a set of throttle bodies?  If so is it really difficult?

[maxtog]

Has anyone swapped out a set of throttle bodies?  If so is it really difficult?

Swap it to what?  I have never heard of the stock ones breaking before, do you think yours is defective?  Are you planning to swap in the larger diameter ones from the ZX14?  If you do that, you will need to also install a power commander that will redo your fuel injection mapping (you won't find an ECU flash for that).  What is your objective?

I have not done a replace (either with another stock or ZX14) but I imagine it is a pretty big job, either way.  Searching I find nothing about the procedure... just some chatter about moving to the ZX14 throttle bodies as part of a major upgrade (which includes the whole exhaust system, dual, and PC).  And that is a LOT of work and expense.  Assuming that is the route you are taking, I would strongly recommend you start with just reflashing the ECU and see if that gets you where want to be- more power, much more responsive, better mileage, all stock equipment, no impact on warranty, and smoother...  and it is relatively cheap and very easy.

[Freddy]

Alternatively, maybe he's had the ECU flashed and found that the secondary throttle plates have been removed but broken screws remain in the shaft.   

I haven't done it but I think the rubber intake boots can fairly easily be removed vertically from the airbox thru the cover plates, giving good  access to the throttle body assembly.

[maxtog]

Alternatively, maybe he's had the ECU flashed and found that the secondary throttle plates have been removed but broken screws remain in the shaft.   

Ah, OK, forgot about that thread:  http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22567

Probably would have made more sense to post there.  Sorry "Goat", didn't remember your name and associate it with that; should have, but my memory isn't what it used to be.

I imagine trying to remove screw lowers stuck in there won't be easy/possible with the throttle bodies still installed   Probably a challenge even with them removed (I assume the old "drill them out" kinda thing).

[B.D.F.]

Nah, not so bad. You have to remove the fuel tank and the side covers but after that, it is pretty straightforward.

The usual swap on a C-14 is going from 40mm C-14 throttle bodies to 44mm ZX 14 throttle bodies, and that is an easy and straightforward swap. Use the injectors from the ZX T.B.s and forge ahead. There is a noticeable improvement in performance, especially on the high end of the RPM band and when flogging the bike a bit.

Best of luck.

Brian

Has anyone swapped out a set of throttle bodies?  If so is it really difficult?

[maxtog]

Nah, not so bad. You have to remove the fuel tank and the side covers but after that, it is pretty straightforward.

For ME that would be a difficult task   Everything is relative.

The usual swap on a C-14 is going from 40mm C-14 throttle bodies to 44mm ZX 14 throttle bodies, and that is an easy and straightforward swap. Use the injectors from the ZX T.B.s and forge ahead.

I believe you would still have to adjust the fuel mapping, unless also swapping to the other injectors somehow just magically takes care of it?

[B.D.F.]

Fuel mapping: you are assuming the fuel mapping is 'correct' from the factory, which is not the case. C-14's run rich, very rich, to feed the catalytic converter and keep it 'lit' with hydrocarbons (gasoline). Leaning them is a wonderful thing for performance, mileage and general ride-ability. My own experience with 44mm T.B.'s on a C-14 with stock mapping is that the bike runs better, is 'crisper' regarding throttle response without being harsh, performs better on the top end of the engines' speed range (top RPM) and is an overall improvement without any other changes.

And, of course, before installation, toss the secondaries ('the 'flies' ') before installing the T.B. if they are still there when the bank is procured- most are already gone anyway.

There is no magic. There IS an EPA, and that agency trumps all, including but not limited to: performance, correct running, throttle response, fuel economy and anything / everything else regarding running of all and any vehicles made, imported or used in any way in the United States. I believe you are mistaking 'correct mixture' for 'factory supplied mixture'; they are entirely different things in the US of A.

My personal opinion and experience, YMMV.

Brian

For ME that would be a difficult task   Everything is relative.

I believe you would still have to adjust the fuel mapping, unless also swapping to the other injectors somehow just magically takes care of it?

[maxtog]

Oh, I know it runs rich stock, but I didn't think it was so much that it could just eat the changes in the TB!  Wow, learn something new every day.  Good case for theory being right but in practice being something different.

[B.D.F.]

I do not know for a fact, and have no sensor data, that swapping out the T.B.s IS safe but from seeing a pair of them, one having a LOT of miles on it that way, and riding them, I do not believe they are in any way, at any point, lean, never mind too lean. In fact, I suspect they are still a tad rich.

If I were to do this, I would punch an O2 sensor in the exhaust and use a data recorder to develop some plots over time and usage.

Brian

Oh, I know it runs rich stock, but I didn't think it was so much that it could just eat the changes in the TB!  Wow, learn something new every day.  Good case for theory being right but in practice being something different.

[Goat]

Yeah maxtog I should've been little more clear, it is indeed the screws for the secondaries that are broken off.  B.D.F. I will take a look at what you mentioned, maybe I can do it after all.  Thanks y'all 

[Goat]

B.D.F., You mentioned swapping the TBs was straightforward once the tank and side panels are removed, would you mind explaining a bit more?  Do the round parts (technical terminology I know with the secondaries come apart from the plate assembly where the main butterflies are?   Are those what you install?

Tried to send a PM but couldn't

[maxtog]

B.D.F., You mentioned swapping the TBs was straightforward once the tank and side panels are removed, would you mind explaining a bit more?  Do the round parts (technical terminology I know with the secondaries come apart from the plate assembly where the main butterflies are?   Are those what you install?

Still curious- are you going to attempt to repair yours by removing the screw remnants or plan to swap in something else?

Tried to send a PM but couldn't

He has PM turned off for everyone for ages, for some reason, so it is nothing personal.  He prefers Email for private contact.  At the same time, your additional queries into the procedure/repair isn't necessarily something that needs to be private- you never know who else might want to do this now or in the future.  Or who else might be able to add additional information.  By posting in the thread, it can help (or at least entertain) others!

[Goat]

I have another set that I was going to use the secondaries from, if it's not too difficult to swap that's what I'll do.  Maybe try to drill out the old ones once off.

You're right, posting procedure could help others, didn't think of it in that light this time.  Good call!   

[B.D.F.]

You can e-mail me privately if you wish, my e-mail is on the top / left of this screen, right under my avatar. Private messaging is turned off on my account because people were ordering my products through the forum via PM and I could not keep track of that. But I am easy to contact (Easy Boys! I meant electronic contact) via e-mail and not trying to duck any personal communication.

Well, two things:

1) Straightforward: what I meant was it is not as intense as, say, a valve lash check on a C-14. It IS a whole lot more involved than changing the oil. It is hard to put a number on the level of difficulty or the level of skill needed.

This is a link to removing the throttle bodies from a ZX 14, which while different, is not terribly different because the two sets of throttle bodies are interchangeable. Take a look and see what you think:

http://www.zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=62F83816-D56B-84E2-14E2834C9FFA4D60

2) The throttle bodies are all attached to each other, there is no 'main' or 'secondaries' part to them as far as removal and insall goes and none of this comes apart. They all go in as one assembly and come out the same way. This is what they look like:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-2010-KAWASAKI-CONCOURS-14-ZG1400A-ABS-MAIN-FUEL-INJECTORS-THROTTLE-BODIES-/282354779085?fits=Model%3AConcours+14&epid=1466744449&hash=item41bda803cd:g:qsMAAOSw4DJYm6Zx&vxp=mtr

Brian

B.D.F., You mentioned swapping the TBs was straightforward once the tank and side panels are removed, would you mind explaining a bit more?  Do the round parts (technical terminology I know with the secondaries come apart from the plate assembly where the main butterflies are?   Are those what you install?

Tried to send a PM but couldn't

[Goat]

Awesome Brian, thanks!