Author Topic: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help  (Read 17728 times)

Offline JhVenezuela

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I have an issue with my motorcycle , perhaps some of you can help me out:
The bike starts find but fails to maintain idle RPMs. One of the cylinders apparentely does not work. The exhaust on that side does not even get warm.
Spark plugs, coils and injectors appeared in good working condition as well as the gas pump.
I can roll on it back home but tends to stall.
 I was wondering whether  any of you has had similar problem and what should I do next.

Thanks in advance.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2015, 12:11:16 PM »
'exhaust on that side'.... do you mean just one header pipe? And the other three get hot?

Not sure if you have dual exhausts on your bike and are talking about a pair of cylinders. At any rate, it would be extremely unlikely that a pair of cylinders would fail at the same time for any reason, at least while the other two work correctly.

Brian

I have an issue with my motorcycle , perhaps some of you can help me out:
The bike starts find but fails to maintain idle RPMs. One of the cylinders apparentely does not work. The exhaust on that side does not even get warm.
Spark plugs, coils and injectors appeared in good working condition as well as the gas pump.
I can roll on it back home but tends to stall.
 I was wondering whether  any of you has had similar problem and what should I do next.

Thanks in advance.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2015, 12:19:58 PM »
How do you know the coils are good?
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Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2015, 12:28:01 PM »
How do you know the coils are good?

I changed the sparkplug. Then i swap the coils (not the cable) 1 to 2,  2 to 1.
and the problem persist in the same cylinder.


Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2015, 12:33:48 PM »
'exhaust on that side'.... do you mean just one header pipe? And the other three get hot?

Not sure if you have dual exhausts on your bike and are talking about a pair of cylinders. At any rate, it would be extremely unlikely that a pair of cylinders would fail at the same time for any reason, at least while the other two work correctly.

Brian

Not the pipe, i mean the exhaust, engine exit.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2015, 01:03:29 PM »
Oh, the exhaust header is cold and only one. So one cylinder is not 'running'. And you swapped the coil and spark plug between cylinders 1 & 2. Great so far: that basically leaves the fuel injector; I would suggest swapping injector 1 & 2 as well and see if the problem changes cylinders.

If bychance you do find a bad injector, may I suggest sending the entire batch out for replaceemnt of the bad one(s) as well as a clean and balance for the rest? I have seen some amazingly clogged and low delivery injectors from vehicles that seemed to run quite well.

Brian

Not the pipe, i mean the exhaust, engine exit.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2015, 01:21:23 PM »
Oh, the exhaust header is cold and only one. So one cylinder is not 'running'. And you swapped the coil and spark plug between cylinders 1 & 2. Great so far: that basically leaves the fuel injector; I would suggest swapping injector 1 & 2 as well and see if the problem changes cylinders.

If bychance you do find a bad injector, may I suggest sending the entire batch out for replaceemnt of the bad one(s) as well as a clean and balance for the rest? I have seen some amazingly clogged and low delivery injectors from vehicles that seemed to run quite well.

Brian




 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

I have the KDS. And the  inyectors test were fine !!!!!
Do not show any problem.
I read in other forum something about the Crankshaft sensor, but i'm not sure
because the problem only affect one cylinder.



Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2015, 01:38:22 PM »
Given that only one cylinder is involved, it is extremely unlikely (odds like getting hit by a comet while you sleep tonight :-)  ) that is is anything generic such as the crankshaft sensor. Whatever the problem is, it must be limited to one cylinder. So that basically eliminates any global systems such as crankshaft sensor, camshaft sensor (there are two), variable valve timing, etc., etc.  What we are left with is things unique to one cylinder which are the valves of course (unlikely IMO), or the ignition system or the induction system. If you have swapped the ignition coil (stick coil) and spark plug, and the problem stayed with the original cylinder, it is HIGHLY unlikely that the problem is with the ignition system (assuming of course that you also swapped the coil to harness connections. That leaves induction: air is supplied through the throttle body via a universal throttle rod and individual throttle bodies. So unless that rod suddenly broke, air should not be the problem. That leaves, by default, the injector, which is unique to each cylinder. Fuel injector failures are not uncommon adn that could very well be the cause of the problem.

The diagnostic test only confirms that there is a fuel injection coil connected to the ECU, not that the valve actually opened and is shipping fuel. Again, fuel injection clogging / failure is a known failure method although not common, it does happen. And it would perfectly explain what is happening with your C-14.

Unfortunately, the easiest tests are not all that easy due to fuel injector access. No. 1 is no problem but No. 2 (Easy Boys) is quite a bit more difficult. Still, I think this is the likely cause of your cylinder failure given your posts and the data I have to work with. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....

Brian




 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

I have the KDS. And the  inyectors test were fine !!!!!
Do not show any problem.
I read in other forum something about the Crankshaft sensor, but i'm not sure
because the problem only affect one cylinder.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2015, 01:50:18 PM »
Thaks for your help.
As soon as i solve the problem, I let you know.
 :'(

Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2015, 02:02:29 PM »
Another Clue !!!!

Before the fail appeared i was running over 240-250 Kms, at least for one hour.
Because of that, i friend said me, that can be a Valve problem  :'( :'( :'( :'(

Could be ?

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2015, 03:20:54 PM »
Let's do the simple stuff first...and stay out of the engine for now.
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Offline jwh20

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2015, 03:24:37 PM »
As always you need to remember what it takes for a cylinder to fire:

1) Air
2) Fuel
3) Compression
4) Spark

If any of the above are missing, you get nothing!

1) Air: some blockage in the intake or a messed up intake valve.  Could a butterfly have come loose?  A chunk of your air filter sucked into the intake?  (Just speculating)

2) Fuel: Fuel injector or FI ECU not sending the fuel.  Note that the KDS3 does exercise these but there is no way for it to detect that fuel was actually dispensed.  You have to check that yourself.

3) Compression: An intake or exhaust valve problem.  Try COMPRESSION test.  Burned piston, also a compression test here.

4) Spark: I know you swapped the coils and the plugs but did you verify that you are actually getting a spark? The ECU sends a "fire" signal, if this is missing the coil and plug could be good but no spark is produced.  Try pulling the coil and inserting a screwdriver into it and holding it close to the engine or frame.  You should be able to see/hear the spark.

Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2015, 04:10:29 PM »
Thanks for your help.
I'll check all those things during the weekend.


Here in my town, a motorcycle shop (mechanics workshop) is a risk that i don't want to take.
Not for now.
 

Offline JerBear

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2015, 05:54:47 PM »
Could it be a wire that attaches to the stick coil that is shorting due to rodent chewing on wires? That would be easy enough to check if you were able to get to the spark plugs.
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AlbertaDoug

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2015, 09:54:45 PM »
Had the same issue with my Bandit, it was a broken wire on the Power Comander #1 injector plug.

Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2015, 05:46:30 AM »
Had the same issue with my Bandit, it was a broken wire on the Power Comander #1 injector plug.

I thing so and desconnected the power commander.
The problem persist.

Offline SilverConnieRider

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2015, 10:34:37 AM »
Another Clue !!!!

Before the fail appeared i was running over 240-250 Kms, at least for one hour.
Because of that, i friend said me, that can be a Valve problem  :'( :'( :'( :'(

Could be ?

Over 150 - 156 mph for at least one hour?  Seems unrealistic as MCN reported the top speed to be 153 mph.

You never said how many miles or Kms you have on the bike.
Did this problem start out of the blue and all of a sudden or did it start to run badly and get worse and worse?

Is the bike totally stock except for the Power Commander?

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2015, 11:11:03 AM »
We never get obsessed over the facts here....
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2015, 01:27:08 PM »
We never get obsessed over the facts here....

Unless we're talking tires, oil or KIPASS!

Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Electrical problem, Igintion problem or Engine issue ??? Need Help
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2015, 06:15:43 PM »
Over 150 - 156 mph for at least one hour?  Seems unrealistic as MCN reported the top speed to be 153 mph.

You never said how many miles or Kms you have on the bike.
Did this problem start out of the blue and all of a sudden or did it start to run badly and get worse and worse?

Is the bike totally stock except for the Power Commander?

The bike has 70000 kms.
I felt the problem suddendly, nothing happened before
About the spped, I put that beast at 270-275 km several times.