No turning back now!

[JerBear]

I have it torn apart now and the valve lash check is done.  Crazy how involved this is, no wonder no one trusts a dealership to do it right, I don't want to try and figure all this stuff out and it's MY bike.  I haven't taken the cams out yet but got clearance measurements going from cylinder 1 to 4;

Exh. .007-.008-.007-.008-.0075-.008-.008-.007
Int.  .004-.004-.004-.0045-.005-.005.004-.0045

How close should I try to get the center of .0085 for exhaust and .0057 Intake.  My feeler gauges check to .0005 if I stack them but would .006 on intake .009 on Exhaust make more sense.  This is the bike's first valve check and I'm at 27000 so it was really past due but I really wasn't looking forward to all this fun.

[Deziner]

Adjust the valves to maximum clearance. They will get tighter over time, not looser.

[jwh20]

Adjust the valves to maximum clearance. They will get tighter over time, not looser.

These bikes tend to get tighter over time but that is not guaranteed.  They can and do go either way.  I prefer to go closer to the middle of the range especially if I can avoid buying new shims and get what I need by just swapping the existing shims around.  But over time you will find the clearances changing less and less.

But clearance at minimum spec is usually where you minimize the valve noise although on the well covered C14 engine you rarely hear that anyway.

[B.D.F.]

Well, the shims come in 0.001" (one thousandth of an inch) sizes, and you have 0.002" clearance range. Add to that the very finest you can measure is 0.0005" (one- half thousandth of an inch) and there just is not all that much room to choose the lash you would like. Look at your own numbers and see how many you can get 'in the middle'; for example, you can make the first ext. into an 0.008" lash or a 0.009" lash but you cannot hit 0.0075" no matter what you do.

My own opinion and experience has always been that 0.001" change in valve lash is not only unimportant but undetectable in any running quality of the bike. It just does not really matter....  Besides, not worrying about this leaves more time to worry about motor oil and whether nitrogen in tires is better, and by how much. 

And yep, that is one serious PIA job. Be careful when replacing the cams as they will hang up on at least one valve and you have to use the cam bearing caps to drive them down; it is very easy to break a runner between a set of cam bearing caps. The best method is to turn all the cam bearing cap screws just a little to drive the caps down evenly. Another way, a better way I think, is to jack the cams down into the bearings fully and hold them there and then install all the cap bolts.

Brian

I have it torn apart now and the valve lash check is done.  Crazy how involved this is, no wonder no one trusts a dealership to do it right, I don't want to try and figure all this stuff out and it's MY bike.  I haven't taken the cams out yet but got clearance measurements going from cylinder 1 to 4;

Exh. .007-.008-.007-.008-.0075-.008-.008-.007
Int.  .004-.004-.004-.0045-.005-.005.004-.0045

How close should I try to get the center of .0085 for exhaust and .0057 Intake.  My feeler gauges check to .0005 if I stack them but would .006 on intake .009 on Exhaust make more sense.  This is the bike's first valve check and I'm at 27000 so it was really past due but I really wasn't looking forward to all this fun.

[sailor_chic]

Brian, for us dummies, can you please explain how you would jack the cams down.

[B.D.F.]

"For us dummies" says the monarch of Rostra installs..... 

I would push against the bottom of the bike's frame. The two ways that come to mind would be a "TEE" shaped tool, which could be made of scrap wood, that was wedged between the cam top and the frame bottom. If the short section of the TEE were just a littler longer than the distance between cam and frame, then the tool could be levered and would jam in place to hold the cam until the caps were tight.

The other way would be to use bolts and long nuts in the exact same way; screw them together until they are shorter than the distance between cam and frame, then unscrew them until each end bears against a surface. Gently opening them with a pair of wrenches would easily jack the cam down. The advantage to this is that there would be no lever in the way to install and torque the cam bearing caps.

If this is not clear, I can do a couple of quick drawings to show the idea better. For a similar product, check out the Carr Lane screw jack shown here: https://www.carrlane.com/catalog/index.cfm/27825071F0B221118070C1C513E111D081B0006280B1713050245221E0107070F1A3C3B2853574A5B

That would work once the bottom threads were cut off but is rather expensive for what we are talking about. Plain ole' coupling nuts would work great in this application and they are cheap and fairly easy to find: http://www.zoro.com/value-brand-rod-coupling-nut-grd-2-14-20-pk10-1ja53/i/G0293002/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&gclid=Cj0KEQjw18-rBRDogrTg4Lusuu0BEiQACs8YQgB4ciHMjqNrpDdQjL-roJZ0ZQ7N78T1iWCfWi1xvGsaAnU-8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

Brian

Brian, for us dummies, can you please explain how you would jack the cams down.

[elp_jc]

How close should I try to get the center of .0085 for exhaust and .0057 Intake.

Bottom line is shoot between half and max cleareances. As B.D.F. explained, you just can't be too precise. The good news is you'll have just ONE shim size to choose from on the majority of the valves between mid and max clearances. And remember to recheck everything right before closing the valve cover, with everything fully torqued to spec. As a side comment, if you want to be a hair more precise, go by the OEM millimeter specs, and buy a metric set of feeler gauges. But as Brian also mentioned, no need to worry about small differences. However, I must say, based on my own observations, it's not wise to wait that long to check valve clearances IMO, even when other markets have that high of a check interval. Of the several people that waited that long, many valves were out of spec at 26K+ miles. One has to remember if a clearance falls within range, even if they're at minimum spec, factory leaves it alone. At least that seems to be the case on US bikes. Having said that, once they're adjusted from mid to high spec, it's very likely they'll still be in spec after 26K additional miles IMO... but I'd still check them at the factory suggested interval . Good luck.

[MAN OF BLUES]

 

there ya have it Brian.... the seal of approval....

[jimmymac]

When you have more posts than miles, you gotta talk about something...

[Deziner]

Should I mention that accuracy of feeler gages can vary by manufacturer? Has anyone actually used a recently calibrated micrometer to check the thickness of their feeler gages? 

[sailor_chic]

When you have more posts than miles, you gotta talk about something...

there ya have it Brian.... the seal of approval....

Lmao!!

[sailor_chic]

"For us dummies" says the monarch of Rostra installs..... 

I would push against the bottom of the bike's frame. The two ways that come to mind would be a "TEE" shaped tool, which could be made of scrap wood, that was wedged between the cam top and the frame bottom. If the short section of the TEE were just a littler longer than the distance between cam and frame, then the tool could be levered and would jam in place to hold the cam until the caps were tight.

The other way would be to use bolts and long nuts in the exact same way; screw them together until they are shorter than the distance between cam and frame, then unscrew them until each end bears against a surface. Gently opening them with a pair of wrenches would easily jack the cam down. The advantage to this is that there would be no lever in the way to install and torque the cam bearing caps.

If this is not clear, I can do a couple of quick drawings to show the idea better. For a similar product, check out the Carr Lane screw jack shown here: https://www.carrlane.com/catalog/index.cfm/27825071F0B221118070C1C513E111D081B0006280B1713050245221E0107070F1A3C3B2853574A5B

That would work once the bottom threads were cut off but is rather expensive for what we are talking about. Plain ole' coupling nuts would work great in this application and they are cheap and fairly easy to find: http://www.zoro.com/value-brand-rod-coupling-nut-grd-2-14-20-pk10-1ja53/i/G0293002/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&gclid=Cj0KEQjw18-rBRDogrTg4Lusuu0BEiQACs8YQgB4ciHMjqNrpDdQjL-roJZ0ZQ7N78T1iWCfWi1xvGsaAnU-8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

Brian

Monarch, hardly! I simply got lucky.

I believe that I can picture what your saying for jacking the cams.   This will give my brain something to process.

[dolomoto]

..... However, I must say, based on my own observations, it's not wise to wait that long to check valve clearances IMO, even when other markets have that high of a check interval. Of the several people that waited that long, many valves were out of spec at 26K+ miles. ..but I'd still check them at the factory suggested interval . Good luck.

I'm hosed. First (and only) valve inspection was around 36,000 miles. About to roll over 88,000. I reckon I'll do a valve inspection this fall in celebration of 100,000 miles.

 

[Jimmy Lucas]

When you have more posts than miles, you gotta talk about something...

LOL... i just peed my pants, so true with that guy, what a idiot!!! 

[MAN OF BLUES]

Should I mention that accuracy of feeler gages can vary by manufacturer? Has anyone actually used a recently calibrated micrometer to check the thickness of their feeler gages? 

yep...
my mics get calibrated at least yearly, thru work...
and all my feeler stock is spot on.... including my .0005" and .0015" & .0025"
I buy 12" long Starrett loose feelers only, from McMaster Carr
which I use in combos to get the desired measurments I am inspecting to.

I'll also toss out once again, that common metric sets and stock come .05mm min, and the sets go in .05mm increments...

so you ain't getting measurments more finite than that using them.... .05mm is .00196"
so basically you are dancing with increments of .002" all the time.

[Deziner]

I'm thinking not many of us use Starrett feelers. Or know the difference between a mic and a dial caliper....

[martin_14]

I'm thinking not many of us use Starrett feelers. Or know the difference between a mic and a dial caliper....

uh?! what's a feeler? 
just kidding. I have a PhD in mechanical engineering so of course I know.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to google something...

[MAN OF BLUES]

I'm thinking not many of us use Starrett feelers. Or know the difference between a mic and a dial caliper....

I had to go back and correct my spelling error....heheheh

the guys I used to work with called me the human micrometer... I can pretty much pinch a piece of metal and come within  a  couple thou on its thickness, but after 45+ years of measuring stuff, its an aquired tactile response....
I stopped letting the guys I worked with use my personal mics and calipers, because they would crank on them soo hard... you can tell people that have a clue, from those that don't, simply by watching them pick up and hold the device, funniest ones were the mega degree holding hotshot engineers right out of school that all had to buy digital equipment, because they couldn't figure out how to read the measurments on a manual mic.

[JerBear]

After measuring each shim thirty times just to be sure I think I can guess from across the street by now

[Daytona_Mike]

When you have more posts than miles, you gotta talk about something...

HAHA!!  that was funny right there.