Author Topic: smooth running (Read 6697 times)

martin_14 · « **on:** June 21, 2011, 01:12:36 AM »

I basically use the bike as my primary transportation, which means I do some 20 miles a day on it, and then have a couple trips a year of 2000 miles each. Basically I drive at low revs whenever I can (2 to 3 thousand RPMs). Since I haven't hit triple digits for a while, yesterday I stretched her muscles a bit and went at 140 mph for a few miles (40 perhaps) and went back to the city, parked and had a coffee (very HD...)

Anyway, when I left the place I noticed that now the bike runs soooo much smoother. Is this normal? I mean, the things is very smooth usually, even after test driving a K1600 GT I still find the C14 a wonderfully smooth bike, but after the high speed run it's like it has cleared its throat.
Or maybe I'm just dreaming?

One more question, since I am not a native English speaker: what does it mean "lugging the engine"? Am I doing that by driving at low RPMs?

DaveO · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2011, 02:56:13 AM »

yep ,very smooth and strong motor ..Hard to belive some guys think it needs modification to run better.

VirginiaJim · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2011, 03:59:57 AM »

'Lugging' the engine would be like having it in 6th and running below 50/45mph. In other words, having it in too low an rpm range for the selected gear.

martin_14 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2011, 08:25:28 AM »

Quote from: VirginiaJim on June 21, 2011, 03:59:57 AM

'Lugging' the engine would be like having it in 6th and running below 50/45mph. In other words, having it in too low an rpm range for the selected gear.

I knew it...

gflint · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2011, 09:14:51 AM »

20 miles a day at lower rpm is not the greatest thing for a motorcycle engine. Vary the rpm into the 5000 every now and then to get the head temp up. Lower rpm for those short rides can lead to carbon build-up. It is not so bad on a fuel injected engine but it is still an issue.

Barry · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2011, 09:35:24 AM »

Quote from: martin_14 on June 21, 2011, 01:12:36 AM

...went at 140 mph for a few miles (40 perhaps) and went back to the city, parked and had a coffee (very HD...)

You held 140mph for 40 miles

?

Son of Pappy · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2011, 09:41:06 AM »

Quote from: Barry on June 21, 2011, 09:35:24 AM

You held 140mph for 40 miles ?

Autobahn

I am jealous, only time I had a bike when I was in Europe was an older DS, top speed of 130kph. If only I had my Connie back then

Mister Tee · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2011, 10:00:00 AM »

I've actually noticed the same thing myself - on other bikes. Both my RT and my gsxr seem to run smoother after a full speed run at WOT. I think it's clearing crap and carbon buildup out or something.

Barry · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2011, 10:04:12 AM »

Quote from: Son of Pappy on June 21, 2011, 09:41:06 AM

Autobahn I am jealous, only time I had a bike when I was in Europe was an older DS, top speed of 130kph. If only I had my Connie back then

Even there, 140mph for 40 miles is doing something. Even if it was like 12 minutes or whatever the math works out to. HAHAHA....

Cold Streak · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2011, 10:07:12 AM »

I rented a Honda ST12 for a weekend when I was in Germany. I did take it on the autobahn for a run up to 135/140 for awhile. Gets boring fast. I spent most of the time on the back roads, which are wonderfully twisty.

lt1 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2011, 10:58:43 AM »

Quote from: VirginiaJim on June 21, 2011, 03:59:57 AM

'Lugging' the engine would be like having it in 6th and running below 50/45mph.

Not true.

Quote

In other words, having it in too low an rpm range for the selected gear.

True.

Martin,
Lugging the engine is when the engine is below its powerband to the extent that it is straining the engine. This is accompanied by, or displayed by, bucking and/or lumpy/unsmooth running. For example, running up a steep hill 2-up fully loaded in 6th gear at 45mph would "lug" and normal C14's engine. Running at steady throttle on level ground or downhill would not. Hard acceleration can lug an engine in circumstances where smoother, gentle acceleration would not.

If you have much mechanical sympathy at all, it is pretty obvious when you are lugging an engine. Many people who should know better "rev the snot" (another slang term meaning to run the engine at much higher rpm's than necessary) out of their engines, especially in motorcycles and sports/sporty cars, because the engine makes more power in the higher rpm ranges, and they seem to think that if they are below the max torque peak they are lugging the engine.

As long as you are not straining the engine by demanding that it pull a heavy load or accelerate strongly from low rpms, it is unlikely that you have either lugged or damaged the engine in any way.

However, it is possible to get some carbon buildup on the piston and head by continuous operation at lower power settings. This is observed by a sooty or smokey-looking exhaust under hard acceleration. Your 140mph/40mile run more than likely burned out much/most of the carbon build up. The small amount of weight on the pistons being removed, the engine s/b somewhat smoother as you noticed.

To summarize, you probably were not lugging the engine, and burning off the excess carbon buildup from time to time is good for the engine as well as fun. Unfortunately, in this neck of the woods (slang for "around here") it can result in hefty fines if not done discretely.

Cheers.

curly · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2011, 12:34:13 PM »

or maybe it was vibrating like crazy at 140mph and when you returned to normal speed it felt like less vibration. just a theory.

gonzosc1 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2011, 01:43:16 PM »

Quote from: lt1 on June 21, 2011, 10:58:43 AM

Not true.
True.

Martin,
Lugging the engine is when the engine is below its powerband to the extent that it is straining the engine. This is accompanied by, or displayed by, bucking and/or lumpy/unsmooth running. For example, running up a steep hill 2-up fully loaded in 6th gear at 45mph would "lug" and normal C14's engine. Running at steady throttle on level ground or downhill would not. Hard acceleration can lug an engine in circumstances where smoother, gentle acceleration would not.

If you have much mechanical sympathy at all, it is pretty obvious when you are lugging an engine. Many people who should know better "rev the snot" (another slang term meaning to run the engine at much higher rpm's than necessary) out of their engines, especially in motorcycles and sports/sporty cars, because the engine makes more power in the higher rpm ranges, and they seem to think that if they are below the max torque peak they are lugging the engine.

As long as you are not straining the engine by demanding that it pull a heavy load or accelerate strongly from low rpms, it is unlikely that you have either lugged or damaged the engine in any way.

However, it is possible to get some carbon buildup on the piston and head by continuous operation at lower power settings. This is observed by a sooty or smokey-looking exhaust under hard acceleration. Your 140mph/40mile run more than likely burned out much/most of the carbon build up. The small amount of weight on the pistons being removed, the engine s/b somewhat smoother as you noticed.

To summarize, you probably were not lugging the engine, and burning off the excess carbon buildup from time to time is good for the engine as well as fun. Unfortunately, in this neck of the woods (slang for "around here") it can result in hefty fines if not done discretely.

Cheers.

+1 nicely said and correct. so many factors come in to play on lugging. weight of load, uphill, downhill, engine condition and so on.
my guess might be on the high side but as a truck driver I feel that 75- 80% of drivers (car or bike) don't really know what lugging is.
most people don't even look at the manual for the bike. 150lb rider, shift points 6th gear 31mph. I'm 175lbs and can ride all day long in 6th at 40-45mph with minor hills.
carbon build up is a natural result of burning fuel, its gonna happen no matter what the rpm's are. the difference in carbon build up between high and low rpm's is that, at higher rpm's more carbon is being blown out of the engine. not that its making less! and this is why the OP is getting a smoother ride. he just forced more carbon out with a high speed blast.

VirginiaJim · « **Reply #13 on:** June 21, 2011, 01:43:53 PM »

While technically running at 45 in 6th on 'level' ground may or may not be lugging. It ain't good for the bike. If you need power all of a sudden you ain't gonna have it in 6th at 45. I do imagine that some lugging may occur upon the need for more power in an emergency situation on level ground.

gonzosc1 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2011, 02:05:54 PM »

Quote from: VirginiaJim on June 21, 2011, 01:43:53 PM

While technically running at 45 in 6th on 'level' ground may or may not be lugging. It ain't good for the bike. If you need power all of a sudden you ain't gonna have it in 6th at 45. I do imagine that some lugging may occur upon the need for more power in an emergency situation on level ground.

how is it not good for the bike?
for emergencies that could apply in any gear! at 65mph you don't have a sudden blast speed availible either if your next to a semi and it comes over in your lane. hit the gas in 6th and see what happens. almost nothing! you gotta drop it 2 gears and slam it or hit the brakes.

to be simple. lugging happens at the point where the engine will not make "any power", a bit of hesitation is not lugging. along as it move the bike forward steady there is no lugging. it may not be the proformance you want, but it not lugging.
lugging has nothing to do with speed! its all about power and that means a lot of different things to different people.
as said before conditions will vari to make lugging come into play. as long as it doesn't feel like your riding a 2 dollar crack whore chances are no lugging is taking place..

C1xRider · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2011, 02:16:25 PM »

Interesting discussion. I "lugged" mine this morning from 20MPH to 60MPH in 6th gear. I did it intentionally and very gradually, just to see how little throttle it would take to make it "pick up speed" (I was bored, following a group of slow cars and trucks).

On the C14, if you do "lug" the motor too much, it will shudder, which can't be good for it.

Also, high gear / low RPM sudden load can / will cause pinging / knocking, which is definitely not good for it.

Conrad · « **Reply #16 on:** June 21, 2011, 02:18:57 PM »

Quote from: gonzosc1 on June 21, 2011, 02:05:54 PM

how is it not good for the bike?
for emergencies that could apply in any gear! at 65mph you don't have a sudden blast speed availible either if your next to a semi and it comes over in your lane. hit the gas in 6th and see what happens. almost nothing! you gotta drop it 2 gears and slam it or hit the brakes.

to be simple. lugging happens at the point where the engine will not make "any power", a bit of hesitation is not lugging. along as it move the bike forward steady there is no lugging. it may not be the proformance you want, but it not lugging.
lugging has nothing to do with speed! its all about power and that means a lot of different things to different people.
as said before conditions will vari to make lugging come into play. as long as it doesn't feel like your riding a 2 dollar crack whore chances are no lugging is taking place..

I've never rode a 2 dollar crack whore before, can you explain this feeling in more detail so I'll know when/if it happens?

VirginiaJim · « **Reply #17 on:** June 21, 2011, 02:43:23 PM »

Quote from: gonzosc1 on June 21, 2011, 02:05:54 PM

how is it not good for the bike?
for emergencies that could apply in any gear! at 65mph you don't have a sudden blast speed availible either if your next to a semi and it comes over in your lane. hit the gas in 6th and see what happens. almost nothing! you gotta drop it 2 gears and slam it or hit the brakes.

to be simple. lugging happens at the point where the engine will not make "any power", a bit of hesitation is not lugging. along as it move the bike forward steady there is no lugging. it may not be the proformance you want, but it not lugging.
lugging has nothing to do with speed! its all about power and that means a lot of different things to different people.
as said before conditions will vari to make lugging come into play. as long as it doesn't feel like your riding a 2 dollar crack whore chances are no lugging is taking place..

No problem, you ride it the way you want to and I'll ride it the way I want to. I prefer to treat it like a sport tourer (that it was designed for) rather than let's say something else entirely. I want the power band to be there rather than wait that second or two to shift and get it revved up to where it should have been in the first place. That one or two seconds of time might help in getting out of a situation.

lt1 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 21, 2011, 02:59:03 PM »

Quote from: VirginiaJim on June 21, 2011, 02:43:23 PM

No problem, you ride it the way you want to and I'll ride it the way I want to. I prefer to treat it like a sport tourer (that it was designed for) rather than let's say something else entirely. I want the power band to be there rather than wait that second or two to shift and get it revved up to where it should have been in the first place. That one or two seconds of time might help in getting out of a situation.

No one was telling you how to ride, or not. Just that "lugging" is a specific, recognizable thing. It appears that the bike was designed to be ridden very aggressively, very passively and about everywhere in-between.

If you choose to run the bike a gear or two higher or lower than other owners, and explain why, that is fine also.
Personally, I typically accelerate up to the speed limit in first or second, then shift up to the highest gear I can w/o lugging. If traffic necessitates, I try to be alert and downshift prior to any need for a sudden burst of acceleration. Perhaps my riding conditions allow me to keep a larger safety bubble than yours. If I am in heavy/agressive traffic, I tend to run a gear or two lower than normal.

Perhaps some of the more colorful analogies in this thread were unnecessary.

gonzosc1 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 22, 2011, 02:16:36 PM »

oh no! wasn't trying to tell anyone how to ride, just playing mythbuster. as far as riding goes there is almost no one in the wrong here. the c14 can handle both passive and agressive styles of riding.
most bikes on the road have a ""massive"" power to weight ratio and the motorcycle lugging myth just needs to be busted.

News:

Author Topic: smooth running (Read 6697 times)

Son of Pappy