Testing the Rostra cruise control

[sailor_chic]

Rostra! Totally electronic and no vacuum canister. Easy to connect to the speed sensor.

So easy, even I could do it!

[Deziner]

Don't discount yourself, Nicole. Your work and skills appear to be well above typical...

[just gone]

There seems to be several incidents of having trouble getting into Diagnostic mode with Rostras that then seem to work fine afterwards during the road test.
I always wonder if everybody with this problem is remembering to disconnect the NSS (clutch) wire (just for the Diagnostic test) as per Brian's instructions?

Don't discount yourself, Nicole. Your work and skills appear to be well above typical...

Seconded!.....er..maybe,...typical...what exactly Deziner? (yes I'm  ) 
Probably should have stopped with only one period after typical.
Anywaaaayyyyy, that was what I was seconding, "typical." with one period.

[Deziner]

Seconded!.....er..maybe,...typical...what exactly Deziner? (yes I'm  ) 
Probably should have stopped with only one period after typical.
Anywaaaayyyyy, that was what I was seconding, "typical." with one period.

For someone that does not accessorize vehicles for a living, Nicole does a bang up job when she mods her motorcycle. Very clean indeed. Saw some other installs that, well let's just say that "clean" would not be at the top of my list of adjectives to describe the installation. As a matter of fact, I would have to say that MOST folks take the "Good enough. Nobody can see what's under the Tupperware." approach. I'm dealing with that on my bike.   

[B.D.F.]

Yeah, the Rostras have proven pesky to get into diagnostic mode. Part of the problem is that getting into diagnostic mode depends on which switch is being used and the rest of the problem is that they are just finicky.

Nicole went through a solid, manual testing though, circuit- by- circuit and I was pretty sure it would work.

Brian

There seems to be several incidents of having trouble getting into Diagnostic mode with Rostras that then seem to work fine afterwards during the road test.
I always wonder if everybody with this problem is remembering to disconnect the NSS (clutch) wire (just for the Diagnostic test) as per Brian's instructions?

Seconded!.....er..maybe,...typical...what exactly Deziner? (yes I'm  ) 
Probably should have stopped with only one period after typical.
Anywaaaayyyyy, that was what I was seconding, "typical." with one period.

[B.D.F.]

Yeah well, I have seen a lot of professional installations that do not reach anywhere near that level either. I think that is the cleanest, nicest installation I have seen so far, and I have seen more than a few Rostras installed....

Nicole is to Rostra as Walter White is to crystal meth. Mark my words, that is going to show up on fifth grade I.Q. tests before too long.... 

Brian

For someone that does not accessorize vehicles for a living, Nicole does a bang up job when she mods her motorcycle. Very clean indeed. Saw some other installs that, well let's just say that "clean" would not be at the top of my list of adjectives to describe the installation. As a matter of fact, I would have to say that MOST folks take the "Good enough. Nobody can see what's under the Tupperware." approach. I'm dealing with that on my bike. 

[sailor_chic]

Wow gentlemen. I am very appreciative of the kind words spoken about my installation skills . When doing a project, such as a Rostra, I really do try to make thing look as professional as I possibly can.

As Brian spoke about my diagnostic testing, I wasnt able to get the unit itself to go into diagnostic mode. Yes I did have the NSS wire disconnected. Brain  walked me through the connections that I made and the necessary voltage required for it. The only adjustment that he did have me make was one of the dip switches.
I made the bike "rideable" and physically tested the Rostra and it worked perfectly!

And since I do live under a rock, I had to Google Walter White, so I could be as smart as a fifth grader.

[JS_racer]

question, but wasnt sure where to ask it

anyways, how tight to the set speed does the rostra hold, say with semi flat roads, no huge hills or anything, just normal midwest roads.
thanks much
(find myself using the cruise in the car every day, to maintain my above the limit speed to an acceptable level)

[sailor_chic]

In the scenario that you described,  it works great!

[VirginiaJim]

And since I do live under a rock, I had to Google Walter White, so I could be as smart as a fifth grader.

Excellent!  We need more 5th graders here!

[B.D.F.]

On a flat road, it will not vary 1 MPH at highway speeds (65 MPH and up). Hills, both going up and going down (Don't make me say it!), the vehicle speed may vary by 2 or 3 MPH, usually a little less at highway speeds. The Rostra really does work best at high loads: either highway speeds, or at very low engine speeds when going slower. For example, the Rostra will work reasonably well at 30 MPH but the engine has to be in 5th or even better, 6th gear. Yes that does result in rather low engine speeds but that is what is required to tame the Rostra. At that same 30 MPH in 2nd or 3rd gear, the CC will oscillate, sometimes kind of annoyingly so.

Brian

question, but wasnt sure where to ask it

anyways, how tight to the set speed does the rostra hold, say with semi flat roads, no huge hills or anything, just normal midwest roads.
thanks much
(find myself using the cruise in the car every day, to maintain my above the limit speed to an acceptable level)

[maxtog]

For example, the Rostra will work reasonably well at 30 MPH but the engine has to be in 5th or even better, 6th gear. Yes that does result in rather low engine speeds but that is what is required to tame the Rostra. At that same 30 MPH in 2nd or 3rd gear, the CC will oscillate, sometimes kind of annoyingly so.

30MPH in 6th?  I would never do that.... even 5th is lugging!

[just gone]

30MPH in 6th?  I would never do that.... even 5th is lugging!

I registered here only one day after max' did, and I still can't tell when he's joking. 

Hey mod, go start your lugging thread somewheres else. This here's Rostra testing country. 

[VirginiaJim]

Mod's do what a mod's gotta do and whether he's serious or not is not up for debate..lugging or not.

[maxtog]

I registered here only one day after max' did, and I still can't tell when he's joking. 

I am not joking... I would typically use 4th tops at 30MPH cruising.  Sounds strained at 5th, I can't imagine 6th!  I would be disappointed if I had to lug the engine just to use cruise at 30MPH.... fortunately, there aren't a lot of places I would want to use cruise on a bike at 30 (I don't HAVE cruise on the bike... although I do on the car and use it a LOT at 30-35MPH around town, to avoid tickets and such).

Hey mod, go start your lugging thread somewheres else. This here's Rostra testing country. 

Where did that come from?  Now it is me that can't tell who is joking!  This is the first I have heard of the Rostra being (IMO) somewhat ineffective at what I would think is a normal RPM/load.  Nobody was stirring any pot until...

[just gone]

Where did that come from?  Now it is me that can't tell who is joking! 

 

Yeah, well now you know, I was joking about the pot stirring on your part max' (sorry that wasn't made clear), and I understand that mods gotta do what mods gotta etc. etc. Not wanting a mod war here, had enough of that elsewhere. I like it here.   

However, I want it clear that it was not I that started this off topic discussion (not that I haven't done that several time before    ) from Rostra testing to lugging. Lugging an engine is not something so simple that one can tell simply from gearing and speed that it is happening. I'm sure there are many here that will disagree and say so with lots of exclamation points and talk about all their track experience. Some will go on to say that they never shift up out of 4th unless they are going at least 70 mph (60mph? 82mph? whatever, pick a number). and the rest of us that don't follow their guidelines are doomed to knocking big end rod bearings etc etc.
Lugging has at least two additional factors besides gearing and speed. Throttle opening and resistance to forward motion. On level ground with calm to low headwinds, properly maintained bike including properly inflated tires, GVWR compliance, and perhaps some other factors that I can't think of right now, a C14 in 5th gear with only enough throttle opening to maintain 30 mph is not lugging the engine. Kawasaki agrees with me.

Now returning to topic, if testing a Rostra in 5th at 30mph and it starts opening and closing the throttle in large movements in it's attempt to maintain speed, then there is most likely some lugging going on during the wider throttle openings. If that happens discontinue the test and check to make sure that there isn't too much actuator cable slack at closed throttle, or simply test at a higher speed. I agree with Brian (at least I think that is his position on it), I would not test a new Rostra install in any gear below 5th until I was sure it was performing properly in the higher gears. Such a test would, I think, be for grins and giggles as I don't know why anyone would care how it performs in the lower gears, unless of course they never shift up out of 4th below 70 for fear of lugging the engine () while riding in a 60mph speed zone.

[B.D.F.]

The Rostra is not optimized for motorcycle use, especially the more powerful motorcycles. Keeping the engine speed low by using higher number gears is the only way to 'tame' the Rostra at low loads; at higher loads such as on the highway when wind resistance provides all the engine loading needed, it works very well. So the low engine speeds are a work- around.

BMW K1300GTs' cruise control works very well in all gears, and at all speeds at which it will engage. This is because of course the CC is optimized for both a motorcycle and that motorcycle in particular.

So the Rostra work- around is a real world situation, not ideal but sufficient that one can use the CC down to very low vehicle speeds if one chooses: I often use mine below 30 MPH riding on coastal roads in the summer 'cause the 'street revenuers' are out in a big way.

As far as lugging the engine, I guess I am just not interested enough in that topic to [discuss, argue, defend or even address] it. Whatever the individual believes works for me- in fact, I think I remember reading about one famous gentleman who said something like 'I would rather die 1,000 deaths than lug the engine in a C-14'. Oh, wait, that was R.E. Lee going to surrender to H.U. Grant.... but I betcha' he would have said it about his C-14 had he been asked.  I did lug the engine in a Gravely T-8 once, and it was pretty awful: in fact, that tractor only ran another 20, 25 years before its owner died and I lost track of it.... pretty horrible stuff, huh? Too bad too 'cause I really kind of had a soft spot for that thing: it was ancient but really performed well and had more attachments than you could count. One of them was this unguarded snow blower, commonly known as 'the dog catcher' (for obvious reasons) that was an absolute brute to run. Good old fashioned American craftsmanship with lots of cast iron, thick steel and bearings throughout (no bushings, no sheet metal). I think you could grind rocks under the mower deck without denting it! And it had this really cool, optional sulky seat arrangement so you could ride behind it although it did make backing up interesting (an articulated seat arrangement). Ah, fond memories. But I digress- where were we? Oh yeah, BMW's suck.

Brian

Yeah, well now you know, I was joking about the pot stirring on your part max' (sorry that wasn't made clear), and I understand that mods gotta do what mods gotta etc. etc. Not wanting a mod war here, had enough of that elsewhere. I like it here.   

However, I want it clear that it was not I that started this off topic discussion (not that I haven't done that several time before    ) from Rostra testing to lugging. Lugging an engine is not something so simple that one can tell simply from gearing and speed that it is happening. I'm sure there are many here that will disagree and say so with lots of exclamation points and talk about all their track experience. Some will go on to say that they never shift up out of 4th unless they are going at least 70 mph (60mph? 82mph? whatever, pick a number). and the rest of us that don't follow their guidelines are doomed to knocking big end rod bearings etc etc.
Lugging has at least two additional factors besides gearing and speed. Throttle opening and resistance to forward motion. On level ground with calm to low headwinds, properly maintained bike including properly inflated tires, GVWR compliance, and perhaps some other factors that I can't think of right now, a C14 in 5th gear with only enough throttle opening to maintain 30 mph is not lugging the engine. Kawasaki agrees with me.

Now returning to topic, if testing a Rostra in 5th at 30mph and it starts opening and closing the throttle in large movements in it's attempt to maintain speed, then there is most likely some lugging going on during the wider throttle openings. If that happens discontinue the test and check to make sure that there isn't too much actuator cable slack at closed throttle, or simply test at a higher speed. I agree with Brian (at least I think that is his position on it), I would not test a new Rostra install in any gear below 5th until I was sure it was performing properly in the higher gears. Such a test would, I think, be for grins and giggles as I don't know why anyone would care how it performs in the lower gears, unless of course they never shift up out of 4th below 70 for fear of lugging the engine () while riding in a 60mph speed zone.

[Deziner]

.................. Ah, fond memories. But I digress- where were we? Oh yeah, BMW's suck.

Brian

 

[maxtog]

Yeah, well now you know, I was joking about the pot stirring on your part max' (sorry that wasn't made clear), and I understand that mods gotta do what mods gotta etc. etc. Not wanting a mod war here, had enough of that elsewhere. I like it here.   

I am glad you like it here, I do too.  And since you have been around long enough, you know that no such "war" would ever occur here.... certainly not with me involved, anyway.

Lugging an engine is not something so simple that one can tell simply from gearing and speed that it is happening.

Quit trying to be rational and such    In any case, I do not disagree with most of what you are saying... although I do heartily disagree with the owner's manual's shifting chart.   And it wouldn't be the only thing in the manual I disagree with either.  Of course, each to his own.  My C14 shutters and sounds like it wants to throw up in crazy high gears at slow speed and of course has zero response, all combining to make a pretty miserable experience.  I hate the way it feels and sounds, and that is enough evidence for me to call it "lugging"... as to whether it is actually lugging or not or doing any damage or not, I don't know; it was just a label I threw at it.   Brian seems to think not, and that is probably good enough for me... but not good enough to keep me from avoiding the situation

Still, I doubt I am alone in imagining some type of pain the machine might be feeling in such situations (anthropomorphizing aside).  It is a shame the Rostra can't deal with the lower loads/speeds more elegantly; it still sounds like a good system, even if it means just not using it at low speeds/loads if the user is so inclined.

[C14lvr]

There have been several times I've set my Rostra at 25-30 mph.

I have usually had it in 5th gear at the time.

Mine works pretty well w/o surging at those speeds.

Now, I originally set my dip switches up exactly as Brian suggested in his tutorial.
After about a year of use, it began to annoy me concerning how long it seemed to take to engage at a set speed. I have a friend that I installed one on his GS. He told me one day he had observed the same thing with his, which bugged him as well. He read up as to what each dip switch setting did, and had changed his #2 switch from off to on. This made it engage a lot sooner. Big improvement.

So, I changed mine, and had the same result...with one exception; Mine now takes spells surging.
It seems to be controllable, though. I have to watch about not engaging it if I'm going down a steep grade, or climbing a hill, etc. Otherwise, it has been an improvement.