Decided to get a new battery

[rcannon409]

My shorai has been awesome. From what it sounds like, they dont like to be discharged completly, and I've been lucky not to do that.

I accidentally left my bike in the "park" position for 10 hours. Bright light so I did not notice the taillight was on. The bike fired right up.

The battery is strange under 40 degrees.  You have to try and crank the bike 3-4 times to heat up the battery. I dont think we'll see them oem until this issue is solved.  Its not big deal, but in the cold you'd swear the battery is dead right at first.

[maxtog]

Theres more than just size and weight to batteries tho... Whats the amp rating?  I know most of us have a lot of extra stuff hooked up, and especially heated gear, and lights can draw a bit. I understand most of this is powered by the alternater, but the battery is just as important.

Actually, excess battery is not that important in such cases.  The key to number of accessories is that your overall power use (watt-hours) generally needs to be below what the alternator provides.  Otherwise, it will have to pull from the battery (and so it is not charging).  If that happens, the battery will slowly discharge without recovery until there is not enough left to start the bike the next time.  You might also run into issues with the voltage regulation system not being able to keep the voltage stable when you get near alternator capacity. 

Excess capacity (over stock) CAN be useful if you are TEMPORARILY pulling more than the alternator can provide.  But it is also very useful to help make up for wear in the battery over time or lower capacity due to low temperatures and finally to compensate for sitting long periods and self-discharging (or dealing with slow vampire draw, like the computer).

An even more important example for excess being starting the bike, which will pull a LOT of power.  If you were making lots of short trips (and perhaps also using over a certain amount in accessories), the excess can help make sure you can start the bike again, since it didn't have time to charge back up from the alternator while riding.

[maxtog]

My shorai has been awesome. From what it sounds like, they dont like to be discharged completly, and I've been lucky not to do that.

Lithium batters are just like those used in your cell phone or laptop or other portable electronics.  Running them down to a very low state will greatly shorten their life.  Of course, that is also true for lead-acid batteries.  They also charge strangely- it is quick to charge them to about 80%, and the rest of the charge is much slower.  Plus lithium batteries will wear better when kept between 20% to 80% or so, but that is usually not practical (on the higher end).  Those percents might not be exactly correct, I am working on memory right now, and mine is never all that great

The battery is strange under 40 degrees.  You have to try and crank the bike 3-4 times to heat up the battery. I dont think we'll see them oem until this issue is solved.  Its not big deal, but in the cold you'd swear the battery is dead right at first.

Lithium batteries fare much worse in cold temps than lead-acid.  And they also have wear issues when kept hot or charged hot.  Lithium is amazing in many ways, but also has a lot of complex "issues".  Some of those issues are mitigated by complex electronic charging and monitoring circuitry, but they can only do so much.

[Jim H]

  Then last battery I bought was for my 94 Vmax.  It was my 2nd Odyssey and it lasted 8 years!  I sold the bike with the 2 year old one in this spring.  It was the PC-680 series by the way.  Was not cheap but you could literally put it sideways or however you needed to in the bike and it would be fine.  AGM is pretty cool.  I will have to also check out this LI battery you guys have been talking about for the future. 

Jim

[MAN OF BLUES]

No, that is not what I said. And it is not correct- flooded cell, gel cell, AGM and 'fakey' AGM batteries all use the same chemistry, lead- acid.

What I said was that any "AGM" battery that comes with separate acid that the user installs is not the same technology as a true AGM battery. It is nothing but a flooded cell battery with glass mat between the plates. AGM batteries behave the way they do not because of the mat, but because the mat allows the use of so little acid.

By the way, one of the big benifits to AGM batteries is that they do not self- discharge nearly as fast as flooded cell batteries and have extremely long shelf- lives. And again, because of the construction mechanism, not the chemistry type.

Again, I am merely pointing out the difference so that anyone can see what is going on here. By all means, purchase and use whichever one(s) you want. My only goal was to shine a little illumination onto what the differences in the battery types (again, not the chemistry but rather the construction and resulting behavior).

Brian

Mehhhhh,
You are splitting hairs with the "flakey fake AGM" line....
It is truly an AGM battery just the same as a factory activated and sealed batt... only difference is that it can sit unactivated indefinatly within reason, on a shelf... period. The internal construction is no different  than a presealed unit. I have cut one (sealed AGM Batt) open to verify this before, and the guts are the same.
I just purchased and activated an Exide AGM yesterday, and I could clearly see the guts thru the filler holes. After the fill, and bench sit time, there was no liquids visible whatsoever, even tilting and shaking the batt, prior to installing the permenant caps before doing the charge cycle....
Well report on longevity when it wears out....I'll say the Scorpion sealed AGM unit I just replaced lasted only 2years, and my fault for not keeping the tender on it last arctic winter.....

[B.D.F.]

Well then we will just have to disagree. AGM batteries get their unique performance machanism from the fact that there is so little electrolyte in the mats. The only way that amount of saturation can be acheived is by squeezing the mats out under great pressure, after they are saturated, and before the battery is assembled. That small amount of electrolyte cannot be added to the mats in the first place because it will not travel through the mats and leave an even amount of electrolyte.

Steel with enough carbon can be heat treated and then tempered to have unique properties. A bar of iron and a package of fire in the same box does not make tempered, alloy steel no matter how much the supplier says that it does.

Brian

Mehhhhh,
You are splitting hairs with the "flakey fake AGM" line....
It is truly an AGM battery just the same as a factory activated and sealed batt... only difference is that it can sit unactivated indefinatly within reason, on a shelf... period.

<snip>

[MAN OF BLUES]

Well then we will just have to disagree. AGM batteries get their unique performance machanism from the fact that there is so little electrolyte in the mats. The only way that amount of saturation can be acheived is by squeezing the mats out under great pressure, after they are saturated, and before the battery is assembled. That small amount of electrolyte cannot be added to the mats in the first place because it will not travel through the mats and leave an even amount of electrolyte. Steel with enough carbon can be heat treated and then tempered to have unique properties. A bar of iron and a package of fire in the same box does not make tempered, alloy steel no matter how much the supplier says that it does.

Brian

Well, if you say so...
 I guess this video of one of what we all consider the Top of the Line AGM on the market is full of it also...

sorry man. I don't get the squeezing out thing you are soo insistant about, it isn't feasable to compress the mats more than %5 if they were pressed wet... but then again, these guys fill the battery with electrolyte right before they seal and charge them... just like the battery I juiced up yesterday.

http://youtu.be/3P-wqckJ2nM

[amphibsailor]

'... Battery Tender also sells a lithium iron battery(similiar technology to the Shorai and it weighs about 1/2 the weight of the Shorai. Has anyone else tried the Shorai and has anyone tried the battery tender battery. Curious minds want to know.
....'

I've been using the battery tender lithium iron battery (Amazon ~$112) for several weeks now with no issues.  It weighs less than 2 lbs.  Includes foam strips to use as spacers since it is so small.  Has 2 + terminals and 2 - terminals which makes it easier to add accessories if you don't want to add a fuse block.

My only concerns was the reserve capacity....but from the posts above, the accessories will run off the alternator unless I do something silly like leave them on (this is negated since I've used a relay on everything so far...).  The Battery Tender battery is sold as a starter battery.
So far...no issues.
 

[h2smokin]

I was looking at that battery tender battery myself. What size did you use amphibsailor? I'm seeing some for $90 shipped on Amazon. I like the idea of an extra set of terminals to put my accessories on and a little more room in the box for the wiring that is now crammed in there

[maxtog]

I like the idea of an extra set of terminals to put my accessories on and a little more room in the box for the wiring that is now crammed in there

It really is a snug fit.  Plus, I am one of those guilty of having NOT installed a proper terminal block/power distribution system.  So I have about 4 cables going to the positive terminal and to the frame ground.  Certainly makes getting the connections good and wire routing proper a bit frustrating.  I figure if I add anything else of importance to the bike, I might give in and do it "right".... some day.... maybe....

[amphibsailor]

I was looking at that battery tender battery myself. What size did you use amphibsailor? I'm seeing some for $90 shipped on Amazon. I like the idea of an extra set of terminals to put my accessories on and a little more room in the box for the wiring that is now crammed in there

I bought the BTL14A240C.  Its about $97 on Amazon, now.  Lots of extra room in the battery box, when using that battery.

[amphibsailor]

...I figure if I add anything else of importance to the bike, I might give in and do it "right".... some day.... maybe....

I'm working on my own version of a fuse block.  Nothing fancy, but it will have primary power delivered thru a relay.  Intend on  turning the relay on/off with the switched accessory leads located in the fairing. Using a terminal block with six fused outputs.  The terminal block will be placed in a plastic project box to help weatherize it.  Leads going into/out of the box will be through snug grommets.  I don't intend on spending too much money for the project. 

[h2smokin]

Thanks for the info on batt. You ordered. I could use the room in there. With aux lights , fuse block on the terminals it's definitely tight. Extra room and dedicated terminals for the accessories would be a welcome addition. My batt. 3 years now and going fine but I usually replace before they show signs of going south on me