2011 Cooling Fan trouble

[Spanky]

My buddy blew the fan fuse last weekend so we put a new one in and went on our merry way. Blew the fuse again and now the fan does not seem to come on regularly. He is making an appointment with the dealer to get it checked. They told him it may be up to 4 hours to diagnose if they have to trace a short in the wiring. Sounds like complete bunk to me, but I was hoping people on here that know electrical "stuff" could tell me if this is reasonable or at least some ideas what may cause this situation. Thanks!

[gPink]

Warranty?

[Spanky]

His warranty ran out in January. He did not get the extended. Made him a little sick to his stomach when I told him what the fans sell for on RonAyers, so hopefully it is something much less expensive. This is why I am asking about a reasonable time to trouble shoot something like this because he will have to pay for it.

[maxtog]

His warranty ran out in January. He did not get the extended.

Huge mistake.  I *hate* extended warranties.  But the Ultimate Cycles in Richmond dealer price of the 3 year extended warranty on the Concours is an insanely good deal and something EVERY owner should buy (and as many times as one can).  Just one repair over a three year period and it likely pays for itself at least once if not more times over.  Even things you KNOW are going to fail, like the battery in the TPS, are covered and that will pay for the entire warranty.

This is why I am asking about a reasonable time to trouble shoot something like this because he will have to pay for it.

Electrical problems can be notoriously difficult to find and repair.  They will have no idea how long it takes and will likely quote high so as to not get in trouble when it really does take that long.... but it might take far less.  This is assuming a good/reputable repair shop, of course.

[Rembrant]

Electrical problems can be notoriously difficult to find and repair.  They will have no idea how long it takes and will likely quote high so as to not get in trouble when it really does take that long.... but it might take far less.  This is assuming a good/reputable repair shop, of course.

Yup. If it's a chafed wire...you may find the bad spot in an hour...or 8 hours...it really depends.

I had a Buell in a couple weeks ago that was blowing fuses, and I told the owner it would take somewhere between 40 minutes and 4 hours and 40 minutes to find the bad spot.

Rem

[Shoe]

I see extended warranties as good insurance for major problems. Minor stuff like fans may be self diagnosed if you are handy with tools.
Try removing the fan and testing it.  Something could be keeping the fan from rotating. 

p.s. I use the term minor repair loosely when servicing the C14 because plastic removal can be a challenge for some.

[C14lvr]

I see extended warranties as good insurance for major problems. Minor stuff like fans may be self diagnosed if you are handy with tools.
Try removing the fan and testing it.  Something could be keeping the fan from rotating. 

p.s. I use the term minor repair loosely when servicing the C14 because plastic removal can be a challenge for some.

One thing to try, see if you can reach through the faring openings, possibly with something long...like a wooden dowel rod, long screwdriver, etc... And spin the fan...(key off, of course.)
May have seized the bearing in the fan motor. That'll blow the fuse, as soon as the stat tries to turn it on. If it won't spin...there's you're problem, and you didn't have to remove anything, either.

[Spanky]

Good info! Thank you for the replys. I feel better knowing the dealer was being honest when they said it may take alot of time to find. Didn't check to see if the fans will actually spin - will do that. I hope for Steves sake that it is not the fans - they are crazy expensive to buy new.

[gPink]

 

FAN-ASSY

item: 59502-0579

qty: 1 @ $320.33

[Rembrant]

Good info! Thank you for the replys. I feel better knowing the dealer was being honest when they said it may take alot of time to find. Didn't check to see if the fans will actually spin - will do that. I hope for Steves sake that it is not the fans - they are crazy expensive to buy new.

Yup, see if they both spin freely before checking anything else.

Expensive new, yes, but they're all over Ebay for as low as $30-$40 each. ZX14 fans should be the same.

[maxtog]

FAN-ASSY

LOL- when I first read that, I saw  "FAN-TASY"

[gPink]

zx 14 shows a single fan

Max, at that price it is. 

[VirginiaJim]

Someone sells an aftermarket fan for us where the blades are metal, I think. 

[gPink]

Muzzy sells metal blades. Don't think they sell the whole unit.

[jwh20]

I once had a still-covered-under-warranty Suzuki that had an electrical problem and the dealer flat refused to work on it.  He said Suzuki doesn't pay us as much as it costs to fix.  Needless to say, that dealer, where I bought the bike, never got another $1 of my money.

Anyway, I knew that the problem had to be in a specific circuit after looking at the wiring diagram.  So I traced it from the start and found that a factory-installed crimp under the tank had come loose and was intermittent.  Total time?  15 minutes most of which was removing the tank.

So use what you know and study the wiring diagram.  The fault is somewhere in the HOT side of the fan circuit since a fault on the LOW/GROUND side will NOT blow the fuse.  As has been mentioned, the problem might be the fan itself.  Check the fan.  Try unplugging the fan and see if the fuse still blows.  If it's in the wiring, the fuse should blow regardless of the fan.  If it only blows when the fan is connected, the issue is probably the fan itself.

If it's not the fan it's a pinched or otherwise compromised wire that is shorting to the frame or some other ground path and causing too much current to flow.  Starting at the fan, work your way back to the fuse block.  Yes, you'll probably have to remove fairings and the fuel tank but my guess is that you'll find the problem in a LOT less than 4 hours of shop time.  Chances are that the issue is not in a bundle of wires covered with a wrapper as there is unlikely to be anything in there to short against.  It will be in one of the places where that wire is exposed to damage.

Good luck, I'd much rather do this sort of work myself than let the yahoo's at the dealer mess up your bike.

[Spanky]

Thanks JWH. I will see if he wants to give that a try. I am comfortable with removing the fairing, gas tank, fans, etc. I am not much of an electronics person, but something like you are describing should be relatively easy to find. I think it is just the fans on that fuse, so their should not be too many wires involved.

[maxtog]

I once had a still-covered-under-warranty Suzuki that had an electrical problem and the dealer flat refused to work on it.  He said Suzuki doesn't pay us as much as it costs to fix.

Oooh, being that "up front" with such a statement could cost that dealer his dealership.... I don't think manufacturers take kindly to such stunts.  We all *KNOW* dealers don't like warranty work with many manufacturers, and will often put off customers or delay them or find other things magically "wrong" they can also charge for during the covered repair.  But to flatly refuse warranty work absolutely has to be against their agreement with the manufacturer and I would be on the phone with them in no time reporting it... (AND probably take my business elsewhere).

[Rembrant]

Thanks JWH. I will see if he wants to give that a try. I am comfortable with removing the fairing, gas tank, fans, etc. I am not much of an electronics person, but something like you are describing should be relatively easy to find. I think it is just the fans on that fuse, so their should not be too many wires involved.

By the way, you didn't mention...did the fuse blow when the bike was hot? Or did it just blow randomly?

The cooling fans will come on between the 4th and 5th temp blocks on the gauge. I can tell you the exact temps, but it doesn't matter for this test. So, if the fuse blows before the 4th temp block comes on, the problem is likely between the fuse box and the relay pack. If it blows a few minutes after the 4th temp block comes on, in which case the fan relay will close, the problem is between the relay and the fan, or like mentioned previously, the fan itself.

So, if the fuse is blowing randomly, even when the bike is cold, the problem is under the seat...between the fuse box, and the relay pack that is mounted on top of the FI ECU. If I recall correctly, the fan relay is the one all the way to the left of the bike. If the fuse only blows when the bike is hot and calling for the fan to come on, then the problem will be between the relay pack and the fan/radiator.

And, the Kawasaki dealer does have the ability to turn the fan on and off in the KDS diagnostics, which would help the troubleshooting...but following the wires inch by inch still takes time;).

Cheers,
Rem

[Spanky]

Thank you Rembrant. i don't know when the fuse is blowing, but I will ask. Thank you for the very good info. It would be nice if it was just a bad relay.

[mikegy]

You did not mention how many miles on the bike and more specifically if the bike had a value check and or adjustment done. I would never trust a shop to reassemble the cables, wires and fairing stays properly. It is the most time consuming and complicated part of the job.  Having gone through the process, I can tell you it is critical that the wires are routed very specifically in the correct position to avoid chafing. If I remember, the lead to the fans has to be routed over the head and through the air dam assembly in a specific way. I would pull off the right side fairing and inspect the wires from the plug to the fans. You should also be able to carefully hand spin the fans to make sure you have no seizures or obstructions. The routing diagrams are in the service manual. If the fan relay is bad you should throw a service code #56. This is from a 2008 manual.