MC Enterprises Canyon Cages

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Do you really want to know about plugs? 

Not butt plugs or wax-riddled ear plugs, Jim! We're talking plastic plugs for the Canyon Cage here! 

[VirginiaJim]

Oh,

Gilda Radner Nevermind

then..

[RcrBoy]

................. If anyone has an idea as to how to improve that piece of hardware, I'd be more than happy to hear them out.................

Ok.

I'll work on it..............

[adrexco]

Have to say that I also didn't like the long motor mount bolt either. The bore of the right side cage barely catches on the bolt hex. Only the tips of the hex actually contact the hole on the right cage. It was too little contact area for my taste. I was almost ready to send them back (had MC on the phone). As I was speaking with them I came up with a solution that I felt solved the problem. I took a flat washer that fit into the right cage bore and cut it like a lock washer. I was able to bend it open to fit around the bolt, then bend it back closed. Once inserted into the right cage bore the washer gave full support and is captivated. This was really the only weak construction point of the canyon cages. I'd recommend MC to put a washer on the bolt first, then weld the hex in place. That would solve the clearance issue. Oh, and I'd like to see the left side stand off and nut powder coated black also (I painted both before assembling). 
Other then that I really love my canyon cages, they're the best bars!!

[RBX QB]

If I were re-designing the long bolt (and I fully acknowledge that nobody asked me to), the bolt would run thru and tighten up similar to stock, with threads out beyond the tightened nuts, and then both cage attachments would be similar to the one on the right... so either cage could be removed without removing the bolt.

I have no actual idea on how this could be done (especially without the disassembled bolt in front of me).

If an idea came up that could work with the cages already provided by MCE, I'd totally buy the upgraded bolt.

[maxtog]

If I were re-designing the long bolt (and I fully acknowledge that nobody asked me to), the bolt would run thru and tighten up similar to stock, with threads out beyond the tightened nuts, and then both cage attachments would be similar to the one on the right... so either cage could be removed without removing the bolt.

I like that idea.  It does seem annoying to have to remove the long bolt when trying to take off the right side, since that bolt supports the engine to the frame and, theoretically anyway, could shift and stop aligning at any moment (at which time it would not be possible to get the bolt through again.

If an idea came up that could work with the cages already provided by MCE, I'd totally buy the upgraded bolt.

I don't see how it is possible to change the long through-bolt in such a manner without also redesigning at least one, if not both side cages.

[RcrBoy]

I don't see how it is possible to change the long through-bolt in such a manner without also redesigning at least one, if not both side cages.

Not if you machine a new part from stock material. It only needs a shoulder area for a captured washer on the right side. The left side design is ok by me....

Biggest factor is cost..

Is it worth it?

I'll know once I get hold of a machinist friend of mine to make me one....


-Mark-

[BWDenver]

Got my Cages today.  I was happy till I looked at the directions.  Bit thin.  Still looking for torque specs.

I decided that since the local bike shop indicated it would take 3 hrs to install these, I could do it myself.  $98 Ph Hr, do the math.

The directions mentioned that I might need a breaker bar for the forward bolt.  That is an understatement. 

I snapped off the nose of a Hex extension in the bolt.  Now I have to figure out how to get the piece out of the bolt head.
Started taking the faring off to get a better view of the bolt head.  This is going to be a real pain to drill and get the piece of the Hex bolt.  Can't seem to get the fwd part of the lower fairing off - just in front of the exhaust pipes.

I do note that nowhere did it mention that you are going to have to support the engine to be on the safe side.  How many folks have torn up the bolts by missing this?

Anybody got torque specs?  Ideas how to remove the FWD bolt's...

Bryan
NOVA

[VirginiaJim]

Could you let us know the year of your bike, please?

[Stephen.G.Fiddes]

I just did these yesterday.

Go spend some money on a GOOD hex socket. Snap-on.  Not craftsman, husky, etc.

Make sure it's a good solid fit, and it will still twist a tiny bit inside the bolt while removing.

Use a good cheater on your breaker bar (I used a 4' piece of square tubing) and gently apply even pressure from the mid-end of your cheater. DO NOT impact (IE: Hammer) or jolt it.  This will encourage breaking important stuff in expensive parts (IE: Bolt in motor mount).   It may let out a 'pop' as the lock-tite breaks free. After that you can just use the breaker bar by itself.  It will feel like your damaging something initially.  As you get the bolt close to out (As it gets easier; the threads still need to be catching tho. If they're not, you risk damaging expensive parts.), turn it back to the right a bit (This time with a jolt) to free the hex-head from the socket-cap bolt, then continue to remove the bolt.

[Conrad]

I just did these yesterday.

Go spend some money on a GOOD hex socket. Snap-on.  Not craftsman, husky, etc.

Make sure it's a good solid fit, and it will still twist a tiny bit inside the bolt while removing.

Use a good cheater on your breaker bar (I used a 4' piece of square tubing) and gently apply even pressure from the mid-end of your cheater. DO NOT impact (IE: Hammer) or jolt it.  This will encourage breaking important stuff in expensive parts (IE: Bolt in motor mount).   It may let out a 'pop' as the lock-tite breaks free. After that you can just use the breaker bar by itself.  It will feel like your damaging something initially.  As you get the bolt close to out (As it gets easier; the threads still need to be catching tho. If they're not, you risk damaging expensive parts.), turn it back to the right a bit (This time with a jolt) to free the hex-head from the socket-cap bolt, then continue to remove the bolt.

Heating the bolt a bit to loosen up the red locktite wouldn't hurt either.

[Stephen.G.Fiddes]

I've seen that frowned upon some places.   My biggest fear with that would be heating up stuff you don't want to be heated (AKA, electrical wires, vacuum hoses, Gas fumes, etc). 

If you want to, great, but I'm not going to say it's the greatest idea ever.   Also, if you think about it, the engine gets pretty hot, and the locktite still sticks.

To heat the bolt up enough safely, you'd have to get a sacrificial screwdriver tip red hot, and hold it on the bolt head until the bolt warms up.  Tow problems with that arise tho...

1:  Heat makes metal soft, so you risk doing more damage to your bolt head. 
2:  Heat makes metal expand, so instead of the thread locker holding it in, the bolt itself is holding it in... The heat WILL transfer from the bolt into the motor mount (especially being alumiinum) and cause that metal to expand as well.

[Conrad]

The heat will soften up the locktite well before any metal starts to soften.

"Also, if you think about it, the engine gets pretty hot, and the locktite still sticks."

Hot locktite will allow the bolt to turn easier than cold locktite will. Run the bike to operating temp before trying to remove the bolt if you're worried about messing something up on the bike with the heat from another source.

YMMV

I didn't have any issues installing the Cages on my Gen 1 C14.

[maxtog]

The directions mentioned that I might need a breaker bar for the forward bolt.  That is an understatement.  I snapped off the nose of a Hex extension in the bolt.

Yes, it is indeed an understatement.  I could not believe how tight it was, I was all set for some disaster... and not just from the getting it "loose", but the ENTIRE TIME trying to turn it out.  And when we FINALLY got it out, it was just COATED in threadlock.  In fact, there was still so much in the hole that getting the new bolts in there was way difficult too, I thought it had been cross threaded in the aluminum and backed it out again... nope, it is just that much threadlock.

I believe they probably put about 10 times more threadlock than what was necessary.

[Son of Pappy]

The directions mentioned that I might need a breaker bar for the forward bolt.  That is an understatement. 

Bryan
NOVA

Have you pulled the dealer installed oil filter yet?  Makes this seem almost child like

[julianm]

Have to say that I also didn't like the long motor mount bolt either. The bore of the right side cage barely catches on the bolt hex. Only the tips of the hex actually contact the hole on the right cage. It was too little contact area for my taste. I was almost ready to send them back (had MC on the phone). As I was speaking with them I came up with a solution that I felt solved the problem. I took a flat washer that fit into the right cage bore and cut it like a lock washer. I was able to bend it open to fit around the bolt, then bend it back closed. Once inserted into the right cage bore the washer gave full support and is captivated. This was really the only weak construction point of the canyon cages. I'd recommend MC to put a washer on the bolt first, then weld the hex in place. That would solve the clearance issue. Oh, and I'd like to see the left side stand off and nut powder coated black also (I painted both before assembling). 
Other then that I really love my canyon cages, they're the best bars!!

Agree with you on the appearance of the long bolt , wouldn't making it out of stainless be an alternative - but I have a different problem with this long bolt.

It arose when I wanted to remove the cages and then ride the bike to the shop that does my servicing.
Removed the cages and then tried to use the standard bolt but it jammed solid when trying to push it through.
Reverted to the cage bolt but felt it didn't tighten up properly . but had no choice but to use it.
On returning from the service I had a look at the mounting and found that the motor had dropped so that the standard bolt would no longer pass through. The cage bolt hex had started to gone through the hex on the motor and was starting to seat on the smooth bore and eat into the aluminium and that's what didn't feel right when tightening.

On measuring up the bolts I found the following :

Bolt  diameter;  OE 11.8 mm , MCE 10.9 mm
Hex across flats : OE 13.5 mm , MCE 12.4 mm
The narrower diameter of the MCE bolt and hex had allowed the motor to drop down a small amount and that was enough to prevent the OE from going through.

Did raise this with MCE but no response as yet.

Have now cut some slots in the fairings so I will be able to remove them without having to take the cages off

Apart from the slight dropping  the motor and the inability to use the standard bolt when riding without the cages , does anyone think that this could have any other detrimental effect or does it indicate that the lower mounting could be under tightened and this is what allowed the motor to sink the 1 mm ?

[maxtog]

Agree with you on the appearance of the long bolt , wouldn't making it out of stainless be an alternative -

Stainless steel is much, much weaker than non-stainless steel.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

I'm sorry I haven't been checking these forums as much as I normally do. I've been out of the office quite a bit lately handling other business as well as dealing with some family stuff as of late. Anyhow, I'm sorry to hear that some of you are having issues. If any of you guys have specific questions you'd like answered, the best way to get me would be a direct email, call the office via our toll free during business hours, or PM me as a last resort. I generally keep up with my emails/calls more so than PMs just because I get work emails on my phone and can answer them almost anytime/anywhere.

Got my Cages today.  I was happy till I looked at the directions.  Bit thin.  Still looking for torque specs.

I decided that since the local bike shop indicated it would take 3 hrs to install these, I could do it myself.  $98 Ph Hr, do the math.

The directions mentioned that I might need a breaker bar for the forward bolt.  That is an understatement. 

I snapped off the nose of a Hex extension in the bolt.  Now I have to figure out how to get the piece out of the bolt head.
Started taking the faring off to get a better view of the bolt head.  This is going to be a real pain to drill and get the piece of the Hex bolt.  Can't seem to get the fwd part of the lower fairing off - just in front of the exhaust pipes.

I do note that nowhere did it mention that you are going to have to support the engine to be on the safe side.  How many folks have torn up the bolts by missing this?

Anybody got torque specs?  Ideas how to remove the FWD bolt's...

Bryan
NOVA

Did you end up getting the torque specs? I can give them to you if not. You must have received a set with an older set of instructions as we added torque specs to the instructions a bit ago. Anyhow, let me know if you still need them and I can PM them to you or post them here.

Regarding the Loc-Tite: There's really not much else we can do from our end. Some bikes come with more than others. We've never had a problem on the bikes we've personally brought in but I have heard from quite a few people that their bikes came absolutely loaded with Loc-Tite. Another good tip is to be sure to use a tap once you get those bolts out to clear all residual thread sealant before installing the new hardware. That will help keep them from binding.

Also, I've never heard of anyone else having an issue with the engine dropping. So, that's news to me. Very interesting news to boot. I'll be sure to add a note to the instructions warning about this but seems that everyone that has followed the instructions step by step have never had a problem in the past. However, that doesn't necessarily mean it can't happen. I appreciate the heads up.

Did raise this with MCE but no response as yet.

We're usually very good about answering emails, calls, and PMs in a timely manner so perhaps your inquiry got lost in the shuffle. If that is the case, I sincerely apologize. How did you contact us? Please shoot me a PM, direct email, or call the office and ask for me and I'll be sure to take care of you.

[julianm]

We're usually very good about answering emails, calls, and PMs in a timely manner so perhaps your inquiry got lost in the shuffle. If that is the case, I sincerely apologize. How did you contact us? Please shoot me a PM, direct email, or call the office and ask for me and I'll be sure to take care of you.

Hi Ryan ,
Thanks for that. E-mail sent


Also, I've never heard of anyone else having an issue with the engine dropping. So, that's news to me. Very interesting news to boot. I'll be sure to add a note to the instructions warning about this but seems that everyone that has followed the instructions step by step have never had a problem in the past. However, that doesn't necessarily mean it can't happen. I appreciate the heads up.

Any other members had this problem or , if someone is busy with the removal of the cages and has the long bolt out , could you please try refitting the OE bolt and see whether is does go in , in which case mine is probably a unique problem.
Instructions were followed meticulously as per the sheet given.

[/quote]

[RcrBoy]

These things are the business.

I'm from the camp, "it's not if I fall down. It's when I fall down." 

So it happens on the way to work this morning, same route as always. Exit ramp off the freeway is a circular right hand up hill number that stops at a light with the road slope upwards on your right side. When the light is red you have to tilt the bike right or it'll fall over on the left.

Being vertically challenged for this bike in the first place, which is why I have the Sargent 1" lower seat, did not help matters when I slowed to a stop and put my right foot down....into a 7"x12" pothole...

Damn that bike is heavy.... 

Anyways the cages did their job. No damage anywhere. Two scuffs, one on the front cage and one on the bag cage. Nothing that sand paper and flat black Krylon won't fix...

Will check the integrity of the welds when it's daylight. 

-Mark-