ABS or Linked

[swpearce]

Been driving a non-ABS Yamaha FJR for 7 years now. After 67k miles I've decided to upgrade. After punching the "buy it now" button on eBay I elected to purchase a low mileage, ABS equipped, 2009 Connie. The owner permitted me to take a brief test drive during which I discerned that pressing the rear brake pedal yielded absolutely NO braking, while the front brake was exceptionally good. When mentioning this the owner said that the ABS systems links the front and rear brake via the front grip and attenuates the rear when the rear pedal is pushed hard by itself as in a panic stop. Having no experience with ABS on any of the bikes I've owned over the past 30 years I was dubious enough to take a pass on the sale. Did I make a terrible mistake, or dodge a bullet for an expensive ABS repair? I'm in an abyss over the ABS and linking.  Is there a consensus on this being a feature or a flaw?

PS: the bike has had the factory recall rear brake pedal fix as well as the warped rotor issue fixed with after market rotors and pads.

Thanks

[Spackler]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but 2009 brakes are not linked.

[maxtog]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but 2009 brakes are not linked.

You are correct.  That is a gen 2 "feature" (2010+)

[stevewfl]

Been driving a non-ABS Yamaha FJR for 7 years now. After 67k miles I've decided to upgrade. After punching the "buy it now" button on eBay I elected to purchase a low mileage, ABS equipped, 2009 Connie. The owner permitted me to take a brief test drive during which I discerned that pressing the rear brake pedal yielded absolutely NO braking, while the front brake was exceptionally good. When mentioning this the owner said that the ABS systems links the front and rear brake via the front grip and attenuates the rear when the rear pedal is pushed hard by itself as in a panic stop. Having no experience with ABS on any of the bikes I've owned over the past 30 years I was dubious enough to take a pass on the sale. Did I make a terrible mistake, or dodge a bullet for an expensive ABS repair? I'm in an abyss over the ABS and linking.  Is there a consensus on this being a feature or a flaw?

PS: the bike has had the factory recall rear brake pedal fix as well as the warped rotor issue fixed with after market rotors and pads.

Thanks

you just got it broken in

[VirginiaJim]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but 2009 brakes are not linked.

Never have been, never will be...  not prudent.

If the OP has no rear brake then he has a safety issue that should be remedied immediately.  I use both brakes on my 08 ABS (paid for them, use them both) and I can tell the difference between using both and using just the front.  For some darn reason, it stops more quickly when using both.  Haven't been able to figure out why....it's a puzzler.

[Tarheelbob]

First of all, the original owner is a dunce. He didn't even knwo what his bike has. The 2009 could be had with ABS, or not. No linked brakes with the 2009's. As others said, it became a feature of the "Gen II" bikes.

The original C-14's had notorious "wooden" rear brake feel and a perceived lack of serious stopping power. You either experienced that, or the bike needed a rear brake R&R. Doesn't sound like anything to do with the ABS.

I personally belive ABS is one of the greatest safety features one can get on a bike. Basically, all it does is prevent a wheel locking up under extreme braking, allowing you a chance to stay upright and avoid a hazard. Don't shy away from a bike you like because you don't understand much about ABS. Get some facts and pull the trigger. Good luck.

[ZG]

Never have been, never will be...  not prudent.

+1... 

[Son of Pappy]

Never have been, never will be...  not prudent.

If the OP has no rear brake then he has a safety issue that should be remedied immediately.  I use both brakes on my 08 ABS (paid for them, use them both) and I can tell the difference between using both and using just the front.  For some darn reason, it stops more quickly when using both.  Haven't been able to figure out why....it's a puzzler.

Better be carefull with that front brake, I hear some Harley bikers have been thrown over the handlebars (thats why they have them really high bars) using that lever on the right

To the OP, on a serious note, there are many riders who actually subscribe to the above and rarely touch the front brake, the PO may have just used up the rear pads.  It may also just need to be bled or the pads may be old.  Having ridden an FJ I can tell you the feel is differant, but I find that on each of my four bikes, with the C14 rear brakes being the least sensitive, meaning more pressure for engagement.  And to confirm, the Gen 1 bikes (08, 09) do not have linked brakes..

To tie in Tarheelbob, the greatest safety feature on a motorcycle is the operator and the first thing that can be improved is the riders skills through proper training and application of skills.  ABS is a great addition to the above, but is NOT a replacement for rider skills.

Off my soapbox.

[tonedeaf]

...

The original C-14's had notorious "wooden" rear brake feel and a perceived lack of serious stopping power. You either experienced that, or the bike needed a rear brake R&R. Doesn't sound like anything to do with the ABS.

...

I have been riding linked brake bikes since 2001 and both of them have the wooden feeling. On the non-ABS bike I just sort of got used to it. On my 2011 C14 with ABS I felt I could safely putit to the test and really mash the pedal and see what it does. After a few tests, I am a fan, the system really lets you screw up and (probably usually) get a way with it. I have 40+ years of riding with an unknown number of miles and I still feel that in a panic situation and might not do what I know how to do. So I like the help I get in that type of situation.

[Conrad]

Never have been, never will be...  not prudent.

If the OP has no rear brake then he has a safety issue that should be remedied immediately.  I use both brakes on my 08 ABS (paid for them, use them both) and I can tell the difference between using both and using just the front.  For some darn reason, it stops more quickly when using both.  Haven't been able to figure out why....it's a puzzler.

+1 I've found that the more that I've used the rear brake the move effective that it's become. It's in my muscle memory now and has just become a habit.

[swpearce]

Thank you  all for a speedy and enlightening review of the '09 Connies brake system.
It not only educated me, but from the "Reads" on this post it seems there were others that benefited also.

Now that I know what the '09 Concours has and does not have regarding linked brakes, the question remains.... why did I experience No, zero, nada, nyet braking from application of the rear brake pedal alone.

Was the ABS restraining me by design, or was that a mechanical issue that should be addressed?
I'm not kidding nor am I intentionally exaggerating. Application of the rear brake at street legal speed in a neighborhood allowed the Connie to coast on undeterred with the power off and clutch pulled in..

The pedal felt as if I was pushing against it's stop with no feel (or pulse) whatsoever.  The bike, otherwise was pristine, with a documented service history and low miles.
If that's the same ABS feature you all experience with your steeds then I guess I screwed the pooch by not buying the bike.
If it is an unknown to all of you, then I'm guessing there was some sort of undiagnosed rear brake problem that I'm glad I didn't take on after the sale.

Having no experience at all with ABS... but desiring to acquire a bike with ABS as well as all of the new electronic do-dads was part of my mission in getting a new (used) Concours.

Regarding my riding history, I have been on bikes consistently for 45 years. I have owned seven bikes ranging in displacement from 125cc to 1600cc, in the scooter, dirt, dual sport, cruiser, sportbike, and sport touring category. My current bike is an '04 FJR that I've had for the last seven years. I've never bought a new bike. I wrench as much as possible on my bikes. I have had my motorcycle endorsement since age 14,and I have taken the MSF Advanced riding course. I have long ago overcome the conventional wisdom of the dark ages to never use the front brake because you could die.  The Connies front brakes are exceptional and I thought nothing could be better than those on the FJR.

So... what say all you gurus.....  Standard ABS response to rear brake pedal application or mechanical issue with the rear brake?

Thanks again for the many and thoughtful answers. I look forward to being a Concours owner and full time participant of this forum... real soon now.

Steve P.

[PlaynInPeoria]

A mechanical issue.  If that's all it is and the rest of the bike is fine, I'd beat him down on price and buy it and fix it, I like fixing things anyway.  If it's sold, oh well, Searchtempest.com will find you a million 08/09 C14s, they're way cheap because of the infinitely superior functionality (and looks) of 2010+

[gPink]

Steve, welcome to the forum and I don't think you'll be disappointed with a C14. I cannot comment on the abs as my 08 is standard brakes. That said, if you had no rear at all something was wrong and should be looked at. I have to exert more force on this rear than on my 84 r100rs. I have adjusted. Good luck on the bike search.

[fmwhit]

There was a couple of recalls on the rear brakes on the C14's.  Its possible that the recall was not done and there may be a small pebble lodged in the mechanism.  The brakes are not rocket science although ABS certainly adds a degree of complexity.  Look at the simple things first.  Remember the bike is heavy and most of the braking comes from the front wheel.

Good Luck,
Fred

[Rhino]

why did I experience No, zero, nada, nyet braking from application of the rear brake pedal alone.

Impossible to know for sure without looking but I would bet new pads and a good bleeding would remedy that. About $60 and 1/2 hours of time.

[MrSkydriver]

I have the same issue with the rear brake.....it pushes down about 1/4 inch and stops.  I am having a "Pump assembly oil wet type" installed tomorrow.  ABS Brake Pressure Modulator is what it is called here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/370175348872.  Kawasaki wants $1100 for it new...$49.95 on eBay.  Hope this helps.

Gregg

[ljcorby]

I have the same issue with the rear brake.....it pushes down about 1/4 inch and stops.  I am having a "Pump assembly oil wet type" installed tomorrow.  ABS Brake Pressure Modulator is what it is called here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/370175348872.  Kawasaki wants $1100 for it new...$49.95 on eBay.  Hope this helps.

Gregg

Please let us know how it goes.  Thanks.

[lather]

.. why did I experience No, zero, nada, nyet braking from application of the rear brake pedal alone.
...The pedal felt as if I was pushing against it's stop with no feel (or pulse) whatsoever.

I had this experience once on my non-abs 08 AFTER the first rear brake recall had been done. I dismounted and checked the rear brake and indeed a pebble fell out of the linkage. I would think this would be a fairly rare occurrence for most but my driveway is pea gravel.

[swpearce]

Wow, thanks for all of the input. This forum is outstanding.
The issue with the '09 Connies rear brake... for me... is now moot.
I took a pass on the bike, and by now I'm sure some better informed buyer has scooped it up.
What I will take from here is that the Gen I Connies did in fact have wooden rear brakes, whether they be ABS or not.
The Gen II bikes did have ABS as an option and they were linked... and from the forum discussions were better than the Gen I brakes.
No insult to Gen I bikes is implied or intended. I just didn't "cotton" to the feel of that models rear brake.
So the take home advice for me (I think) is to start looking for a low mileage Gen II bike.

As a side note to Gregg Hackett... you threw a wrinkle into my updated plan by mentioning the rear brake pressure modulator. If that is indeed the case with the '09 bike I rode I'm glad I took a pass. I hope the new modulator does the trick for you and thanks for posting your experience. One thing I don't want to do after buying a new (used) bike is make a major repair to a critical system. I'm pretty handy with a wrench, but I'm no certified technician.

Again, thank you all collectively and individually for educating me. I look forward to owning a Concours real soon now, and being a legitimate member of this forum.

Steve P.

[maxtog]

Wow, thanks for all of the input. This forum is outstanding.

It was this forum that spurred me to get a Concours.