Linked Brake Fix? Follow up

[Conrad]

What I don't understand is why they backed off their original engineering design on the linked brake concept.....

http://www.kawasaki.com/Content/pdfs/products/concours_QandA.pdf

Page 5

Maybe they decided the 10+ bikes weren't as exciting as the 08/09 versions.....

Yep, the first gen bikes are more exciting and so are the riders.   

[ZG]

Yep, the first gen bikes are more exciting and so are the riders.   

 

[stevewfl]

Believe all that, too

[VirginiaJim]

Of course we believe it.  We heard it on the Internet.  It has to be true.

[Conrad]

Yep, the first gen bikes are more exciting and so are the riders.   

 

Believe all that, too

What?  You don't believe me?    Well then go ahead and ask any of us first gen riders, we'll set you straight!

[Boomer]

The ONLY argument I have ever heard for Linked Brakes is that it is safer for inexperienced riders.
Why would an inexperienced rider ride a 1400cc tourer? The first mistake they make (and we all make mistakes) and it's time to replace $1000s of plastic.
Personally I have tried the BMW, Honda and Kawasaki variants and the BMW is the least intrusive (rear brake pedal only activates the rear brake) but by far I prefer independent brakes. Having ridden both I would rather buy a used 2008/2009 than a new 2010- and almost all of that is because of the linked brakes.
I am sure they are safe but they don't mesh with how I want to ride. Yes I could learn a new way of riding but I also ride a 1989 C10 and learning linked brakes will one day result in me binning the C10. I've already had to upgrade the C10 brakes as compared to the C14 they were F****** SCARY, even though I'd quite happily ridden with them for well over 14 years  . ABS I can understand and all of the rest of the upgrades since 1985 when the C10 was designed make sense from one viewpoint or another, but linked brakes just seem to be there for the hell of it, or maybe so they could justify the price hike vs the 2009 model.

[stevewfl]

MY ZX14 brakes weren't linked

[jjsC6]

I had my Concours for 37,000 miles and it definitely had this problem to the point where I largely quit using the rear brakes - which I agree I did not like doing so.  This problem has been reported by many owners, and several magazine tests have commented on it.  Like others, I have owned several other bikes with linked brakes that have performed flawlessly.

Kawasaki is full of **** to say they are not aware of the problem.  You either spoke with the wrong person or they were lying.

[ssbraun]

Yep, the first gen bikes are more exciting and so are the riders.   

I would just like to point out that this was likely just an April Fool's Day joke.

 

[PlaynInPeoria]

And another thing.  I have multiple bikes and have to ride 2 of them one way and this one a totally different way.  So every time I hot foot into a corner, I gotta ask myself, "Wait a minute, which bike am I riding?"

[RandyN]

And another thing.  I have multiple bikes and have to ride 2 of them one way and this one a totally different way.  So every time I hot foot into a corner, I gotta ask myself, "Wait a minute, which bike am I riding?"

Exactly my problem also. I have a Gold wing with linked brakes, NO problem, I have a 2006 FJR with linked brakes, NO problem. Also have an SV650 but that is a whole different bike and takes a few minutes to get back the feel for it anyways. The brakes on the Concours should be transparent like other models from the competition. I don't want to modify the brakes to fix it but it looks like I may have to. YES, I wont have ABS in the rear if I do it, but I believe it will be much more enjoyable to me. I was hoping I would get lucky and someone with some experience with this problem had found a cure, but it hasn't come up yet.  Guess I may be the guinea pig to test it out. I do appreciate the suggestion from one person on how he believed the brake hoses were routed.

I have been in touch with Kawi USA. The person I've dealt with seemed to be very helpful and has followed up with me by calling the dealer and getting them to try to diagnose it to see if there is a real problem. It does seem to me that some Concours have it and others don't, so maybe it can be fixed by the dealer. I doubt it though. My thinking is that the bike is under warranty so why not give it a shot. It might help if more people were to contact Kawasaki if they feel they have this issue also. Maybe it will get them motivated to fix this. It seems to me that it should be a simple software update, but it might not be that simple.

I will post what happens with it.

[maxtog]

I have been in touch with Kawi USA. The person I've dealt with seemed to be very helpful and has followed up with me by calling the dealer and getting them to try to diagnose it to see if there is a real problem. It does seem to me that some Concours have it and others don't, so maybe it can be fixed by the dealer. I doubt it though. My thinking is that the bike is under warranty so why not give it a shot. It might help if more people were to contact Kawasaki if they feel they have this issue also. Maybe it will get them motivated to fix this. It seems to me that it should be a simple software update, but it might not be that simple.

I will post what happens with it.

I believe the linking of the brakes is 100% mechanical through hydraulics.   There is no fix that is not also mechanical- such as changing a valve.  But do let us know what happens.

[RandyN]

I believe the linking of the brakes is 100% mechanical through hydraulics.   There is no fix that is not also mechanical- such as changing a valve.  But do let us know what happens.

I don't think it is mechanical. As an experiment I pulled the the fuse to the ABS motor and the brakes worked as if they were normal. As in no link, and of course no ABS. So, I think that the link is somehow controlled by electronics. To what extent I don't know, but maybe the software in the ECU has something to say about the amount of hydraulic force allowed through the valve.

After thinking about it it must be that the software controls it. There are two modes of braking balance to select from. 

[The Pope]

I think that it's both (Software & Mechanical).

I "believe" that the software controls an electronic needle valve in the ABS unit. This valve will open up or close down (but wheather it can or can't fully close will need to be determined) the amount of brake fluid is shaired between the front and rear breaks. "IF" this is the case, then the software could be updated to possibly have the brakes unlinked "IF" the currently installed needle valve can be fully closed. But there may still be the need of replacing the needle valve in the ABS unit as it "may" be made so that it can't totally stop the flow between the front and rear.

Just food for thought as I'm just speculating here and I don't know if there is a electronic needle valve or not.

[maxtog]

I don't think it is mechanical. As an experiment I pulled the the fuse to the ABS motor and the brakes worked as if they were normal. As in no link, and of course no ABS. So, I think that the link is somehow controlled by electronics. To what extent I don't know, but maybe the software in the ECU has something to say about the amount of hydraulic force allowed through the valve.

After thinking about it it must be that the software controls it. There are two modes of braking balance to select from.

Interesting!  Maybe it COULD be controlled by a software change, then. 

[jonathan]

Kawasaki is full of **** to say they are not aware of the problem.  You either spoke with the wrong person or they were lying.

If they admit that they are aware of the problem then they would have a responsibility to fix it.

[AZBob]

I think that it's both (Software & Mechanical).

I "believe" that the software controls an electronic needle valve in the ABS unit. This valve will open up or close down (but wheather it can or can't fully close will need to be determined) the amount of brake fluid is shaired between the front and rear breaks. "IF" this is the case, then the software could be updated to possibly have the brakes unlinked "IF" the currently installed needle valve can be fully closed. But there may still be the need of replacing the needle valve in the ABS unit as it "may" be made so that it can't totally stop the flow between the front and rear.

Just food for thought as I'm just speculating here and I don't know if there is a electronic needle valve or not.

Doesn't anyone have a service manual so they can look to see? Or perhaps the parts fiche?

[The Pope]

It doesn't show the internals of the ABS Modual. 

[stevewfl]

Doesn't anyone have a service manual so they can look to see? Or perhaps the parts fiche?

available to all here:

http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/3/Make/Kawasaki/YearID/52/Year/2011/ModelID/9426/Model/Concours_14_ABS_%28ZG1400-CBF%29

[PlaynInPeoria]

It's this and it's over $1000