Author Topic: Do slip on cans really give more power?  (Read 20134 times)

Offline stevewfl

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2013, 09:03:01 PM »
Oil did someone mention oil?  Dino will result in no gain, synthetic blend is good for a %10 gain, and full synthtetic is good for %25.  If you are feeling lucky try Scamsoil, it's been advertised to boost performance by %56.9 and never needs changed :o

Those reported gains are nil compared to employing Rotella T6
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Offline Pokey

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2013, 10:23:22 PM »
I would love to see a C14 dyno run of stock muffler vs. *ANY* aftermarket muffler with NO other changes.  I have been waiting a long time for it and probably will be waiting even longer.  (Of course, it would probably also necessitate a complex statistical relevance analysis too.... and I am not fond of those; has been many years since my dozen credit-hours of university statistics courses).


Dale Walker of Holeshot Performance is a "very reputable" builder, fabricator and motorcycle drag racer, if he claims the increases that he does, than I am betting it is reliable. Area P is also known for their excellent reputation, so I have little doubt that I am making less than a 5 hp increase over stock. The C14 is not lean from the factory to begin with, so with just a slip on MUFFLER you should not be leaned out much if any. Like I said either way, the C14 is just made even better with a good system replacing the howitzer. Kawasaki must be on meth when designing exhausts for their motorcycles, they lead the pack for the biggest and ugliest out there on average.
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Offline Glennn

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2013, 03:35:06 AM »
An area I can see slip-ons giving a squeak more power is the "scavenging" ability of getting spent exhaust gas out of the pipe.

As we (mostly) know, the stock muffler is a series of switchbacks to dampen the noise of the engine, in turn impeding the flow rate out of the exhaust.  This would potentially result in not all spent exhaust gas leaving the pipe and in fact a small amount would be sucked back up into the engine on the return stroke in that moment before the exhaust valves close*.

Slip-ons are typically straight through mufflers surrounded by baffling material, so I would theorise the exit velocity of the exhaust gas would not be as impeded by a slip-on compared to the stock muffler, in turn resulting in slightly less spent exhaust gas being recycled back into the engine, in turn giving a little more power.

This is assuming the diameter of the muffler is not so large that it has a detrimental effect on the velocity flow of the exhaust gas (imagine a water hose that is too big or small and what happens to water that either squirts or dribbles out the end).

So on that basis I personally believe claims of small HP increases with slip-ons alone - however - it is difficult to quantify at the wrist due to 5hp /155hp = 3.2% gain in power. So it could be hard to detect (I believe) whether you have more power, or are just revelling in the joy of snapping open the throttle to hear the big girl roar.

I'm far from an exhaust expert, but used to sell cruiser exhausts and got a base level understanding of scavenging, reversion, velocity, sound/pressure waves, etc.

* note: as far as I am aware no consumer grade engine is capable of completely eliminating all spent exhaust gas before sucking in fresh gas for the compression stroke, so it is a matter of how much extra spent exhaust gas is scavenged over stock.

Happy to be contradicted on any of the above, more my musings on the topic really.
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2013, 04:40:38 AM »

Lets do a dyno and compare Robin.  ;)

Anytime, anytime.  I'm coming back your way this summer.  We'll do it then.

Sparky does have a slip on Area P though...
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2013, 04:44:16 AM »
The monster OEM is back on the bike.  I was getting increased vibrations from the AP.  I have to figure out what's going on and it appears to be only on the right side of the bike.  I can still feel it with the OEM but not as bad as the AP.  Too cold here to do much T/S with it now.
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2013, 04:53:56 AM »
The monster OEM is back on the bike.  I was getting increased vibrations from the AP.  I have to figure out what's going on and it appears to be only on the right side of the bike.  I can still feel it with the OEM but not as bad as the AP.  Too cold here to do much T/S with it now.

I did not know that.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2013, 06:27:02 AM »
Enlightening, isn't it?
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Offline stevewfl

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2013, 07:17:01 AM »
The monster OEM is back on the bike.  I was getting increased vibrations from the AP.  I have to figure out what's going on and it appears to be only on the right side of the bike.  I can still feel it with the OEM but not as bad as the AP.  Too cold here to do much T/S with it now.

'cuz the OEM is WEIGHTING the bike down so much.  Its like weighted bar ends.....but for the BACK of the bike
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2013, 07:35:22 AM »
You may have a point, believe it or not, cause it is quite the dead weight...
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2013, 08:06:11 AM »
An area I can see slip-ons giving a squeak more power is the "scavenging" ability of getting spent exhaust gas out of the pipe.

As we (mostly) know, the stock muffler is a series of switchbacks to dampen the noise of the engine, in turn impeding the flow rate out of the exhaust.  This would potentially result in not all spent exhaust gas leaving the pipe and in fact a small amount would be sucked back up into the engine on the return stroke in that moment before the exhaust valves close*.

Slip-ons are typically straight through mufflers surrounded by baffling material, so I would theorise the exit velocity of the exhaust gas would not be as impeded by a slip-on compared to the stock muffler, in turn resulting in slightly less spent exhaust gas being recycled back into the engine, in turn giving a little more power.

This is assuming the diameter of the muffler is not so large that it has a detrimental effect on the velocity flow of the exhaust gas (imagine a water hose that is too big or small and what happens to water that either squirts or dribbles out the end).

So on that basis I personally believe claims of small HP increases with slip-ons alone - however - it is difficult to quantify at the wrist due to 5hp /155hp = 3.2% gain in power. So it could be hard to detect (I believe) whether you have more power, or are just revelling in the joy of snapping open the throttle to hear the big girl roar.
I'm far from an exhaust expert, but used to sell cruiser exhausts and got a base level understanding of scavenging, reversion, velocity, sound/pressure waves, etc.

* note: as far as I am aware no consumer grade engine is capable of completely eliminating all spent exhaust gas before sucking in fresh gas for the compression stroke, so it is a matter of how much extra spent exhaust gas is scavenged over stock.

Happy to be contradicted on any of the above, more my musings on the topic really.

I suspect you are correct.

I was told on my Valkyrie the reason the factory 6 into 2 was better then the Cobra 6 into 6 was scavenging between cylinders. A slip on for this bike would not effect any scavenging between cylinders since the exhaust still meets at the same place. 

Offline Pokey

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2013, 09:12:37 AM »
I did not know that.


I knew about it.  ;)
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2013, 09:43:52 AM »

I knew about it.  ;)

What else do you know?
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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2013, 10:34:33 AM »
It's time for a flow test.

The test is time proven, as I recall back in the Winter of '08 a test was conducted to determine if flow was increased or remained the same.  To remain consistant we will need 4 bikes (more if we want results from each manufacture).  We need a stock bike, no mods to the flies or exhaust, a stock exhaust with the flies pulled, a bike with flies and an aftermarket can, and a flyless bike with the tater launcher in place.
Once I have the voluteers in place I will outline the test.  I'd do it (again) but as I have a full system, PCV, Autotune, ZX14 TBs I am not eligable for the test.  I am however fully quallified to proctor via electrons, the "Test".
Video evidence is encouraged, but not required.  The word of the testee is sufficient.

Lets put this to rest, once and forall time.  Serious buisness here guys/gals, the motorcycle world needs to know and who better than us??

Offline Cuda

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2013, 11:33:22 AM »

 
Test On 16 Slip-On Exhaust Systems - Pipes Installed And Rated - Pipe Dreams
Super Streetbike Tests 16 Slip-On Exhaust Systems To Help You In Your Quest For More Speed, Style And Sound.
From the February, 2008 issue of Super Streetbike
   The OE manufacturers have to find creative ways to meet the ever-changing emissions standards that, much like gas prices, are getting tougher to stomach. Over the years we've seen numerous designs: long, short, under the seat, under the bike, dual sided, single-sided, and constructed from just about every material in the search to produce the most power while keeping the weight to a minimum and the emissions in check. As a result of all the research and development, the stock header pipes on many sportbikes have become very efficient, and adding a slip-on exhaust system has become a simple way to add mild power while shedding loads of weight and improving the appearance. Slip-on systems are also available in a wide variety of colors, shapes, materials and designs to meet just about anyone's taste.

Our test bikes included horsepower's heavy hitters-a 2007 Suzuki GSX-R1000, 2007 Kawasaki ZX-14 and a 2008 Suzuki Hayabusa.

All of the systems were installed in less than 45 minutes using basic hand tools, and run on a Super Flow Cycle Dyno calibrated to Dynojet specs.
 


Read more: http://www.superstreetbike.com/tested/0802_sbkp_slip_on_exhausts/viewall.html#ixzz2KEumQg4Y
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Offline Pokey

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2013, 12:14:15 PM »
What else do you know?


I would have to tell you in person over a few drinks.  8)
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Son of Pappy

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2013, 12:15:26 PM »

I would have to tell you in person over a few drinks.  8)
Awesome, perfect time to do the prescribed flow test ;D

Offline Conrad

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2013, 12:46:43 PM »

I would have to tell you in person over a few drinks.  8)

Sounds good to me.     :chugbeer:
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2013, 01:06:35 PM »
I'd like to know as well and I like to drink so I'll join all of you...
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Offline ZG

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2013, 01:08:00 PM »
Well if it involves drinking then me and Gumby are in too.  :) :chugbeer:

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Do slip on cans really give more power?
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2013, 01:12:27 PM »
Sounds like the beginnings of a national rally...
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