Strange noise from my C14

[C1xRider]

Heard something very odd from my C14 when I started it this morning.  Normally I have a routine that goes like this :  I gear up w/ earplugs in and helmet on, get on the bike and put the kick stand up, turn on the ignition,  put it in neutral, start it and roll it out of the garage to the end of the 20' pad, then close the garage door and put the bike into gear and go.

Today I deviated from that routine a little.  I wore a different coat, and grabbed my other garage door opener.  When I got to the part where I close the door, it didn't work  (that opener has a very short range), so I put the bike into gear and pulled back up to the garage door.

After I closed the door, I started to roll back down to my turn around point, and heard a really loud high pitch whine coming from the engine.  It sounded much like the whine the bike always makes when riding (same pitch / frequency), but this would vary from none at all to really, really loud, just by moving the rear wheel a few inches with it in 1st gear, and holding the clutch in.

It took me a few feet of rolling before I realized it was completely dependant on the position of the rear wheel.  I stopped at a point where there was no noise, then pushed the bike forward a couple inches, and there it was, as loud as ever.  Rolled it back a couple inches, and completely gone.

Since I had just put in a brand new pair of foam ear plugs (nice ones, AO Safety brand 29dB NRR rated, looks like these http://www.aearo.com/diy/hear_detail.cfm?con_prod_num=92050,%2090594,%2090583&con_family_id=104&con_platform_id=14), I was surprised at how loud the whine was.  Compared to how I could barely hear the exhaust, it was loud.  The temperature was around 50F, and it seemed to go away once the bike warmed up (at least I didn't hear it later).

So has anyone else heard this type of noise before, that would be output shaft position dependant?  I'm thinking it would have to be in the clutch pack or clutch body since that's where the rotating parts were disconnected from the transmission.  I will definitely repeat the process the next time I start it too.  I'm not too worried about it just yet, more curious than anything.

[lather]

I believe I may have  that noise, although I have not noticed that it is rear wheel dependent.
Does the noise have a  whirring or fluttering nature to it, like a fan blade? I have noticed such a noise that seems to come from the clutch, at low speed and when cold. I have considered that it may be related to the slipper clutch design.  I also get some clutch chatter when I make the first right turn of the day - turning out of my driveway.

[VirginiaJim]

    This one is going to be interesting.  First time we've heard of that.  Can't wait to find out more.

[B.D.F.]

    That is the primary gear whine and it is perfectly normal. It does get quieter when the bike warms up but it never entirely goes away. And as you noticed, it depends on where the rear wheel is positioned; it will cycle (louder / quieter) depending on the position of the drive line so when the bike is rolled the noise oscillates.

    It is a Japanese bike thing primarily. I personally love that sound but some do not care for it. Even the Brits are getting in on it as the new generation Triumphs are at least as loud as most Japanese bikes.

Brian

Heard something very odd from my C14 when I started it this morning.  Normally I have a routine that goes like this :  I gear up w/ earplugs in and helmet on, get on the bike and put the kick stand up, turn on the ignition,  put it in neutral, start it and roll it out of the garage to the end of the 20' pad, then close the garage door and put the bike into gear and go.

Today I deviated from that routine a little.  I wore a different coat, and grabbed my other garage door opener.  When I got to the part where I close the door, it didn't work  (that opener has a very short range), so I put the bike into gear and pulled back up to the garage door.

After I closed the door, I started to roll back down to my turn around point, and heard a really loud high pitch whine coming from the engine.  It sounded much like the whine the bike always makes when riding (same pitch / frequency), but this would vary from none at all to really, really loud, just by moving the rear wheel a few inches with it in 1st gear, and holding the clutch in.

It took me a few feet of rolling before I realized it was completely dependant on the position of the rear wheel.  I stopped at a point where there was no noise, then pushed the bike forward a couple inches, and there it was, as loud as ever.  Rolled it back a couple inches, and completely gone.

Since I had just put in a brand new pair of foam ear plugs (nice ones, AO Safety brand 29dB NRR rated, looks like these http://www.aearo.com/diy/hear_detail.cfm?con_prod_num=92050,%2090594,%2090583&con_family_id=104&con_platform_id=14), I was surprised at how loud the whine was.  Compared to how I could barely hear the exhaust, it was loud.  The temperature was around 50F, and it seemed to go away once the bike warmed up (at least I didn't hear it later).

So has anyone else heard this type of noise before, that would be output shaft position dependant?  I'm thinking it would have to be in the clutch pack or clutch body since that's where the rotating parts were disconnected from the transmission.  I will definitely repeat the process the next time I start it too.  I'm not too worried about it just yet, more curious than anything.

[VirginiaJim]

    That is the primary gear whine and it is perfectly normal. It does get quieter when the bike warms up but it never entirely goes away. And as you noticed, it depends on where the rear wheel is positioned; it will cycle (louder / quieter) depending on the position of the drive line so when the bike is rolled the noise oscillates.

    It is a Japanese bike thing primarily. I personally love that sound but some do not care for it. Even the Brits are getting in on it as the new generation Triumphs are at least as loud as most Japanese bikes.

Brian

Could be a different oil might help.  I don't hear it on mine.  I'll give it a whirl today and see if I can make it happen.

C1X, what oil are you using?

[Pokey]

Uh oh, oil question. 

[C1xRider]

I believe I may have  that noise, although I have not noticed that it is rear wheel dependent.
Does the noise have a  whirring or fluttering nature to it, like a fan blade? I have noticed such a noise that seems to come from the clutch, at low speed and when cold. I have considered that it may be related to the slipper clutch design.  I also get some clutch chatter when I make the first right turn of the day - turning out of my driveway.

Yep, it did have a fluttering affect to it.  I remember because my first thought was the electric fans, but then realized they would not be on yet (not warm enough).

[C1xRider]

    That is the primary gear whine and it is perfectly normal. It does get quieter when the bike warms up but it never entirely goes away. And as you noticed, it depends on where the rear wheel is positioned; it will cycle (louder / quieter) depending on the position of the drive line so when the bike is rolled the noise oscillates.

    It is a Japanese bike thing primarily. I personally love that sound but some do not care for it. Even the Brits are getting in on it as the new generation Triumphs are at least as loud as most Japanese bikes.

Brian

I've always heard some amount of whine from the engine, just never this loud, and this is the first time I've found it to be affected by the rear wheel position (although maybe this is the first time it became this obvious).  I suppose the next question would be why it's gotten louder, or loud enough to get my attention.

Still, it sounds like a perfectly plausible and acceptable explanation, thanks Brian. 

[C1xRider]

Could be a different oil might help.  I don't hear it on mine.  I'll give it a whirl today and see if I can make it happen.

C1X, what oil are you using?

I'm running the same oil I've always run, at least since you and Pokey said not to - Amsoil!    

[Son of Pappy]

I'm running the same oil I've always run, at least since you and Pokey said not to - Amsoil!    

Maybe they were right?

[B.D.F.]

Well I think the noise was always there but you changed your routine so you either heard it or more likely, it sounded much louder.

C-14's really do make a LOT of intake noise when the secondary 'flies are removed but I only notice it on those very rare and short trips when I do not wear a helmet. Suddenly it sounds like a can of marbles rattling inside a bag of chains but the noise is always there; earplugs and a helmet go a long way in masking noise, especially white noise.

And by the way, for those who are going to flame me for riding without all (or any) of 'the gear', let me be the first to say that that isn't even the worst thing I do. :-)  The only requirement for motorcycle riding in my state is eye protection and I even skip that now and then (about twice a year on a short local ride- it makes me feel like a 'tough guy') and figure I would argue that the tall windshield IS eye protection just as the windshield in a convertible IS eye protection. Now sharpen your sticks to poke me in the eye....

Brian

I've always heard some amount of whine from the engine, just never this loud, and this is the first time I've found it to be affected by the rear wheel position (although maybe this is the first time it became this obvious).  I suppose the next question would be why it's gotten louder, or loud enough to get my attention.

Still, it sounds like a perfectly plausible and acceptable explanation, thanks Brian. 

[Pokey]

I'm running the same oil I've always run, at least since you and Pokey said not to - Amsoil!   

Obviously that s the problem. 

[lather]

I've always heard some amount of whine from the engine, just never this loud, and this is the first time I've found it to be affected by the rear wheel position (although maybe this is the first time it became this obvious).  I suppose the next question would be why it's gotten louder, or loud enough to get my attention.

Still, it sounds like a perfectly plausible and acceptable explanation, thanks Brian. 

Maybe this will shed some light, maybe not. Some may have read my other post from today or yesterday about oil consumption. After adding the 24 ounces of oil yesterday I did not hear the sound during my ride today. Adding oil seems to have silenced it. So check your sight window and see what the oil level is.

[reesedp]

Is the battery in your fob drained?  Steve doesnt appear to be addressing this so I'll cover it...

[C1xRider]

Well I think the noise was always there but you changed your routine so you either heard it or more likely, it sounded much louder.

C-14's really do make a LOT of intake noise when the secondary 'flies are removed but I only notice it on those very rare and short trips when I do not wear a helmet. Suddenly it sounds like a can of marbles rattling inside a bag of chains but the noise is always there; earplugs and a helmet go a long way in masking noise, especially white noise.

And by the way, for those who are going to flame me for riding without all (or any) of 'the gear', let me be the first to say that that isn't even the worst thing I do. :-)  The only requirement for motorcycle riding in my state is eye protection and I even skip that now and then (about twice a year on a short local ride- it makes me feel like a 'tough guy') and figure I would argue that the tall windshield IS eye protection just as the windshield in a convertible IS eye protection. Now sharpen your sticks to poke me in the eye....

Brian

Shame on you (although I've done it too).  Luckily around here, without pics, it didn't happen.   

 Now if you post some pics of yourself riding a C14 in shorts, tank top, and flip flops (with no helmet), you'll surely be treated to some sweet lovins. 

[C1xRider]

Maybe this will shed some light, maybe not. Some may have read my other post from today or yesterday about oil consumption. After adding the 24 ounces of oil yesterday I did not hear the sound during my ride today. Adding oil seems to have silenced it. So check your sight window and see what the oil level is.

Good thought, so I just went out and checked it.  If anything, it's over full.  It's above the top of the site glass, so I would say it's definitely not low.

[VirginiaJim]

May be the fob oil needs to be changed as well.

[C1xRider]

May be the fob oil needs to be changed as well.

Hmm, that sound like a good topic for a new thread, maybe even a poll - What oil do you use with your FOB?  

Of course, we'll need to get Brian to do some FOB dunk testing for us, in different types and flavors of oil, to test for incompatibilities.   

[B.D.F.]

Now that is just foolish Jim- there is no oil in a fob. That said, I did find a reasonably good Riesling inside my fob one time....

I believe the Kirby approved list of fob immersion liquids includes but is not limited to:

Water
Soda
Beer
Wine (mixed results on this one)
Scotch

I understand that water / silicone based gels may be OK too but have not personally tested any.... yet.

Brian

May be the fob oil needs to be changed as well.

[reesedp]

May be the fob oil needs to be changed as well.

I expect full credit for the fob thing in Steve's absence...