Low bat = freak out

[PH14]

http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-0123-Junior-Charger/dp/B000CITK8S/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1348413555&sr=8-2&keywords=battery+tender

Cheap and it works.

[Pokey]

It does and the highest drain is in the first 24 hours.  After that it tapers off significantly.  I suspect that some people who have battery issues either use their high beams during the day, run lower octane gasolines, use non-mc specific oils, part their hair in the middle, secretly hate ABS brakes, hate linked brakes, have a black bike, use non-oem headlight bulbs, have or have ridden BMW bikes, worship their key fob, have dried up squirrels for friends, always take the key out of the ignition, always keep their key in the ignition, use other than the stock muffler, dislike their tire pressure sensors, live in Ohio and Illinois (and possibly Virginia), have a black bike, and get the F1 error code for no rhyme or reason.  I'm sure there are more.......

    

[C1xRider]

Was there anything else going on that morning like rain or snow or bike washed the day before? The reason I ask is because as best I can tell the signals, emergency flashers and horn have no connection to the ECU other than being powered in parallel with it. There is the Kipass ECU flash connection to the signals, but I can only see that it would malfunction by leaving all four signals in the on position, not stop them from flashing (well it would stop them from flashing since they would be on all the time.  ). I'm wondering if there was a moisture problem in the switches that dried out in the afternoon? The display problems of course are another matter.

No obvious  moisture anywhere.  It made absolutely no sense to me either.  I was expecting a very interesting conversation with the dealer, trying to explain it, and was glad when "cured itself ".

[maxtog]

http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-0123-Junior-Charger/dp/B000CITK8S/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1348413555&sr=8-2&keywords=battery+tender

Cheap and it works.

Damn, I just finished an Amazon order, too.  Thanks for the recommend, I already added it to my cart.  I would rather buy locally, and willing to even spend a bit more, but it seems a $25 charger goes for $40 locally!  So typical.

[Arata]

My ZRX would shoot flames out of the exhaust about a foot when the battery went bad!!!

[B.D.F.]

Well first of all, I would simply ignore all the indicated errors; modern electronics are complicated and often do extremely un-graceful things when losing the minimum necessary voltage to keep them 'thinking correctly'. Once the voltage drops enough, everything that follows is merely the result of the processor(s) no longer being able to process correctly.

As to the battery going dead, I would suggest a current test if you have a VOM (voltmeter). Disconnect one battery terminal, put the current meter in series between the terminal and the battery and wait a bit for the second current level to register. The C-14 is a little tricky here as the initial current drain will be fairly high- around 75 milliamps but that is only because the various systems are booting up. After a short time the current draw will drop down to the 2.5 milliamp (0.0025 amp) range- if your bike draws significantly more than this (anything over 5 milliamps) you will have to find the reason for the excess current draw and eliminate it.

My original C-14 battery lasted a few years and began to crank the bike noticeably slower. I replaced it with an AGM MotoBatt which has worked well now for a couple of years. My new battery did go flat one time last winter due to a long period of neglect- I do not remember how long it was but it was considerably longer than the usual 2 week max. periods when I cannot ride it due to snow on the ground. A short charge and it has performed fine ever since- it was not actually dead but low enough that it would not crank the bike so I do not think the battery was damaged due to excessive discharge.

Brian

I guess my battery is getting weak.  This is the second (third?) time now that I could not start the bike after a dozen+ days of it sitting.  I don't have anything added that is parasitic.   Seems way too soon to need a battery on a 2011.

Anyway, last night I hopped on to go to my friend's (25 min away) and press the starter and yikes, too slow, and I got some message that flashed and went away, and it didn't start.  Tried a second time and it seemed to have no brain left and threw up all kinds of errors - KTRIC ERROR, ABS ERROR, FI ERROR.  Geesh.

So I went and got the tool to remove the panel and hooked up my battery box, waited a few min, then started it.  "FI ERROR".  Turned it off, waited, tried again... "FI ERROR".  One more time, same thing.  So while it was running I pressed both buttons for a while.... "Error code 24".  And I could not clear it so I gave up and just left.  As soon as I was moving a bit, the error went away and stayed away.

When I got home later, I looked up error 24... "Speed sensor malfunction".     I could be wrong, but I just think the wild voltage drop up and down just scrambled the computer's functions for a split second and caused phantom errors.

I drove the bike 200+ miles today, no problem at all.

[PH14]

Damn, I just finished an Amazon order, too.  Thanks for the recommend, I already added it to my cart.  I would rather buy locally, and willing to even spend a bit more, but it seems a $25 charger goes for $40 locally!  So typical.

Yeah, I like to buy locally too, but I am smart about it.  If I look at something in a store, especially if I ask for help, I buy it there. I like to keep businesses that actually provide a service in business. Of course when there is a big price differential and I don't need service or help, I happily buy online.

[CigarSki®]

My bike lives in the parking lot, sometimes covered, mostly not. Never seen a BT. Gets rained on; no issues. Maybe it's all that time in a garage...it wants to outside. 
 

[maxtog]

OK, so I *FINALLY* got the Battery Tender Jr.  Installing was not difficult, although I had to put a spacer under the bottom of the positive poll nut (with four eyelets the bolt just won't reach anymore).  Just let the pigtail drop in front of the oil sight.

I like that the cord is long, although it wasn't quite long enough.  I also like that it has all these auto charging modes.  Another nice touch is that it blinks a light if not connected, which is a great reminder.

I also finally measured the constant idle draw on the battery, it was 0.078 amps.  That doesn't seem like much, so it might be my battery has just lost a lot of its life now.

[reesedp]

These bikes are so tied in to voltage levels that a low battery can illicit all kinds of weird problems.  Happens on cars as well.  I was having an issue with my Prius and replacing the Accessory battery (12v) seemed to resolve it.  It was 7 years old.

With that being said my original C14 battery was replaced after 5 years just because......  I've never put it on a tender and sometimes have left it for over a month without starting (winter).....no issues.  Could be due to me being an EA and FC, though.

he-he..  Jim said Prius...

[VirginiaJim]

 

[maxtog]

I also finally measured the constant idle draw on the battery, it was 0.078 amps.  That doesn't seem like much, so it might be my battery has just lost a lot of its life now.

Wait a min, that is 78mA!  That is way too high (for some reason I was thinking 7.8mA).  I waited for the initial bootup draw to finish and watched it settle on 0.078A for about 30 sec.  Was that not long enough???

[C1xRider]

78mA is way too much for everything being "off". 

I once installed a car stereo with a LED clock (long time ago), and wired the acc and hot together.  It's draw when off was about 100mA (clock display was on all the time), and it would drain the car battery to the point it would not start the car in a couple of weeks.  Probably wasn't the greatest battery, but still, without that draw, it would still start after months of sitting.  I ended up adding a micro slide switch on the front of the unit so I could turn it on to check the time without using the key.

Has anyone else measured the draw from the battery when everything is "off"?

[maxtog]

78mA is way too much for everything being "off". 
[...]
Has anyone else measured the draw from the battery when everything is "off"?

Indeed, I would be curious.  The only things I have installed on non-ignition are the Sargent heated seat/jacket controller, and that is "off", and the air horn, which is relayed from the stock horn (which means zero current flow).  I suppose it is possible that electronic controller pulls some current when "off", but it seems odd it would pull much since it is designed for bike use. 

Meanwhile, it has been 14 HOURS and the battery tender is still showing a solid red light.  According to the manual, that means it is less than 80% charged.  I used the battery to start the bike before putting it on the charger last night and it was a weak start, but started and no errors.  I estimate that means there had to be at least 20% capacity left.  The charger is 750mA, subtract 78mA drain, that is  672mA for 14 hours = 9.4 AH pushed into what I believe is a 12 AH battery, so far...

[VirginiaJim]

Was this measurement taken after 24 hours of the bike being off?  The draw decreases dramatically after 24 hours.

[gPink]

That little blinky red light goes off after 24 hours doesn't it?

[maxtog]

Was this measurement taken after 24 hours of the bike being off?  The draw decreases dramatically after 24 hours.

Quote: "I waited for the initial bootup draw to finish and watched it settle on 0.078A for about 30 sec."

I didn't think it would change after that.  Hmm.  Perhaps it is related to the KIPASS thing and it goes to sleep after a long while.  I know the blinking red light on the bike stays on for a long time before it goes off, but I don't know how long that is.

HOWEVER-  to measure after 24 hours, that would mean you would have to leave your meter inline of the battery for all 24 hours!  If you wait 24 hours without the meter connected, then break the connection to insert the meter, you just rebooted the bike again...

Has anyone really gone that far?

[Conrad]

Quote: "I waited for the initial bootup draw to finish and watched it settle on 0.078A for about 30 sec."

I didn't think it would change after that.  Hmm.  Perhaps it is related to the KIPASS thing and it goes to sleep after a long while.  I know the blinking red light on the bike stays on for a long time before it goes off, but I don't know how long that is.

HOWEVER-  to measure after 24 hours, that would mean you would have to leave your meter inline of the battery for all 24 hours!  If you wait 24 hours without the meter connected, then break the connection to insert the meter, you just rebooted the bike again...

Has anyone really gone that far?

Yes, ~24 hours.

If you really want to know what the draw is, that's the only way to do it.

[VirginiaJim]

Brian (BDF) has verified that but all are welcome to verify.  Max, you could do a search and find it.  I think Brian has talked about it before in this incarnation of the forum.

[maxtog]

Brian (BDF) has verified that but all are welcome to verify.  Max, you could do a search and find it.  I think Brian has talked about it before in this incarnation of the forum.

Thanks.  I will probably not bother with testing to THAT extreme.  I actually did search and could not find the thread you mention, I would be very curious.  Also very curious what others show as their draw after a few min.