Author Topic: 2012 C14 (Read 25863 times)

C1xRider · « **Reply #20 on:** August 16, 2011, 04:43:17 PM »

Quote from: wally_games on August 16, 2011, 11:43:46 AM

Then I wonder why it's not available on my 2011?

Because we got the "upgraded" version (linked brakes).

maxtog · « **Reply #21 on:** August 16, 2011, 04:57:57 PM »

Quote from: wally_games on August 16, 2011, 11:43:46 AM

Then I wonder why it's not available on my 2011?

Because they know what is best for us <sarcasm>

VirginiaJim · « **Reply #22 on:** August 16, 2011, 05:10:12 PM »

Quote from: wally_games on August 16, 2011, 11:43:46 AM

Then I wonder why it's not available on my 2011?

It's actually quite interesting about that. Kwak engineering went out of their way to not link the brakes saying it was for 'performance'. Seems they went 'backwards' on the 10/11 bikes. Glad I bought early in the program, although I think I would have liked traction control.

Kiwi Graham · « **Reply #23 on:** August 16, 2011, 05:47:04 PM »

I agree a third option of no linked brakes would be nice, It is a little disconcerting when cranked over and trail braking to get the front to dive on you. Is there something that can be overided in the electrikery of the system to stop the linking?

VirginiaJim · « **Reply #24 on:** August 16, 2011, 07:37:59 PM »

Not that we're aware of....

stlheadake · « **Reply #25 on:** August 17, 2011, 02:31:55 AM »

Quote from: Kiwi Graham on August 16, 2011, 05:47:04 PM

I agree a third option of no linked brakes would be nice, It is a little disconcerting when cranked over and trail braking to get the front to dive on you. Is there something that can be overided in the electrikery of the system to stop the linking?

I don't think you will find that option EVAH! The linked brakes are tied into the ABS. Start playing with the linked part and you invariably start playing with the ABS part....

Like 'em or not, I think linked brakes are here to stay. Big Brother says they're safer...... <SARCASM>

Scaffolder · « **Reply #26 on:** August 17, 2011, 05:30:41 PM »

The linked brakes on my 2010 abs suck badly. I hate the diving front sensation you get in traffic using foot and hand brakes together. I have been relearning the whole braking control by using just the rear pedal in traffic. It tends to dip a lot less. You almost don't need the front lever there anymore. The problem will be when I get on a bike, like my old 2008, and just use the rear brake pedal and die. I remember how little they could do to stop you.

lt1 · « **Reply #27 on:** August 17, 2011, 05:49:17 PM »

Quote from: stlheadake on August 17, 2011, 02:31:55 AM

I don't think you will find that option EVAH! The linked brakes are tied into the ABS. Start playing with the linked part and you invariably start playing with the ABS part....

Like 'em or not, I think linked brakes are here to stay. Big Brother says they're safer...... <SARCASM>

You seem to be forgetting that the 08/09 C14's ABS was/is not linked. The only thing keeping Kawi from unlinking future ABS brakes is a management/sales decision, not an engineering restriction.

B.D.F. · « **Reply #28 on:** August 17, 2011, 06:04:37 PM »

That is usually true but I do not think that is the case on a C-14- the linked aspect of the brakes are done in software and not a hard- wired part of the ABS system. I remember something about Kawasaki advertising that very thing. Also, they are supposed to be unlinked below 12 MPH as I remember; that pretty clearly shows that the link function of the brakes can be turned on or off at will without defeating the ABS aspect of the brakes.

I still have an '08 though and working on memory here- are your brakes not linked at low speed? I would think you would have to activate them at low speeds to have them <not be> linked because just decelerating through 12 MPH and having either brake disengage 'automatically' would be a nasty surprise.

Brian

Quote from: stlheadake on August 17, 2011, 02:31:55 AM

I don't think you will find that option EVAH! The linked brakes are tied into the ABS. Start playing with the linked part and you invariably start playing with the ABS part....

Like 'em or not, I think linked brakes are here to stay. Big Brother says they're safer...... <SARCASM>

maxtog · « **Reply #29 on:** August 17, 2011, 06:46:02 PM »

Quote from: B.D.F. on August 17, 2011, 06:04:37 PM

I still have an '08 though and working on memory here- are your brakes not linked at low speed? I would think you would have to activate them at low speeds to have them <not be> linked because just decelerating through 12 MPH and having either brake disengage 'automatically' would be a nasty surprise.

Good thought process. I would speculate that they are always linked, or that it would unlink them gradually. I have not seen or read anything that would indicate they are unlinked at any speed, however. You would think such important information would be at least in the damn user's manual! Braking behavior is critical to safety, and linked brakes can be dramatically different than unlinked.

B.D.F. · « **Reply #30 on:** August 17, 2011, 07:00:39 PM »

Well, as far as the brake 'unlinking' (is that a word?) I am going strictly by memory. I remember reading that the brakes were not linked below a certain (low) speed so that the rear brake could be used alone. I just took a look at the Kawasaki web site and did not see anything about this so maybe they do NOT have that feature? Perhaps it was speculation or an early 'hoped for' feature on the second generation C-14's that did not actually materialize?

I was speculating about how they would have to unlink though; it almost certainly not occur after the brakes were engaged because of the surprise factor of either the front or rear brake suddenly going inactive. So if they were in fact not linked at low speed, I would think that would only be the case if the brake (either front or rear) was engaged below the 'unlink' speed in the first place.

It is also possible that I heard it from Kirby and so is totally incorrect because he lies.

But seriously, I do remember reading / hearing about this new 'feature' a long time ago. ??

Brian

Quote from: maxtog on August 17, 2011, 06:46:02 PM

Good thought process. I would speculate that they are always linked, or that it would unlink them gradually. I have not seen or read anything that would indicate they are unlinked at any speed, however. You would think such important information would be at least in the damn user's manual! Braking behavior is critical to safety, and linked brakes can be dramatically different than unlinked.

lt1 · « **Reply #31 on:** August 17, 2011, 10:56:40 PM »

Quote from: B.D.F. on August 17, 2011, 07:00:39 PM

Well, as far as the brake 'unlinking' (is that a word?) I am going strictly by memory. I remember reading that the brakes were not linked below a certain (low) speed so that the rear brake could be used alone. I just took a look at the Kawasaki web site and did not see anything about this so maybe they do NOT have that feature? Perhaps it was speculation or an early 'hoped for' feature on the second generation C-14's that did not actually materialize?

I was speculating about how they would have to unlink though; it almost certainly not occur after the brakes were engaged because of the surprise factor of either the front or rear brake suddenly going inactive. So if they were in fact not linked at low speed, I would think that would only be the case if the brake (either front or rear) was engaged below the 'unlink' speed in the first place.

It is also possible that I heard it from Kirby and so is totally incorrect because he lies. But seriously, I do remember reading / hearing about this new 'feature' a long time ago. ??

Brian

I have read the same thing. It's late and I'm tired, so this is from memory and not research.
Possibilities:
Brakes unlink dropping below 12mph
Brakes unlink if stopping begins below 12mph
ABS disengages dropping below 12mph
ABS does not engage below 12mph
Function is on C14 KTRAC/ABS
Function is on Vulcan Voyager KTRAC/ABS

Something tells me it was on the Voyager. IIRC, linking/abs did not engage below 12mph.

stevewfl · « **Reply #32 on:** August 18, 2011, 12:38:36 AM »

I can feel my brakes unlink at 12 MPH as they're supposed to.

stevewfl · « **Reply #33 on:** August 18, 2011, 12:44:59 AM »

One thing for sure, this internet "herd mentality" about the brakes sucking is incredible. There is not a think wrong with the linked brakes on the '10, '11 models. Sounds like a bunch of old wiminz in here griping

You guys scared me so bad I took the HONDA out tonight, plus I needed to test an old camera I picked up for pennies anyway!

martin_14 · « **Reply #34 on:** August 18, 2011, 02:11:05 AM »

Quote from: B.D.F. on August 17, 2011, 06:04:37 PM

That is usually true but I do not think that is the case on a C-14- the linked aspect of the brakes are done in software and not a hard- wired part of the ABS system. I remember something about Kawasaki advertising that very thing. Also, they are supposed to be unlinked below 12 MPH as I remember; that pretty clearly shows that the link function of the brakes can be turned on or off at will without defeating the ABS aspect of the brakes.

I still have an '08 though and working on memory here- are your brakes not linked at low speed? I would think you would have to activate them at low speeds to have them <not be> linked because just decelerating through 12 MPH and having either brake disengage 'automatically' would be a nasty surprise.

Brian

There are basically two ways to link the front and rear brakes: hardware and software.
Hardware: a plunger takes the hydraulic pressure from the (in this case) brake pedal and distributes it to front and rear. By different arrangements you can get totally integral brakes system (regardless of pedal or lever, front and rear brakes are actuated) or parcial, like in the C14 or some BMWs (but in both cases it is not achieved this way). An interesting vehicle regarding this topic is the Piaggio MP3, which has front brakes actuated by the right lever, rear brakes actuated by the left lever, and both circuits actuated by the pedal. The latter is required by law in Europe so you can drive it with a car driving license.
Software: you extend the functions of the ABS pump to provide the pressure needed in front and rear circuit, and choose the input pressure from lever or pedal, or both. This is of course the most preferred arrangement because it provides flexibility at the time of choosing how to stop the vehicle. For example, it allows to deactivate the link under certain speed.
In the C14, the partial integral system is software implemented, and just like the ECU was craked and tweaked, so it can be the part of the software controlling the brakes. The ABS does work under and beyond 12 mph, regardless of which wheel is braking. The ABS simply compares speeds, not hydraulic pressures, and modulates with a delta-pressure until speeds match (approx.). If somebody messes with the brake distribution, it won't affect the ABS capabilities.
.
.
.
Hopefully...

Boomer · « **Reply #35 on:** August 18, 2011, 03:47:40 AM »

Linked Brakes, Anti-Lock Brakes, Traction Control Systems, Engine Management with Secondary Butterflies,......
Who is riding this bike, me, or the f***ing computers?

Bloody nanny state!

xjrguy · « **Reply #36 on:** August 18, 2011, 02:13:19 PM »

Back to 2012........any new updates on the new model year, or is wait for September the consensus?

DonB · « **Reply #37 on:** August 18, 2011, 02:41:11 PM »

Dealer here says wait till Sept
also he is offering a pretty good deal on a 2011 on the floor. I am having trouble deciding. pull the trigger or wait.

Kiwi Graham · « **Reply #38 on:** August 18, 2011, 03:17:06 PM »

Quote from: stevewfl on August 18, 2011, 12:44:59 AM

One thing for sure, this internet "herd mentality" about the brakes sucking is incredible. There is not a think wrong with the linked brakes on the '10, '11 models. Sounds like a bunch of old wiminz in here griping

You guys scared me so bad I took the HONDA out tonight, plus I needed to test an old camera I picked up for pennies anyway!

Havent heard anyone say the brakes suck bro! The front brake on mine is brilliant.

For me its about feel, I use the rear brake to tighten lines, manage rear grip on the gas and balance the bike during hard braking (the linking doesnt really effect this) doing the former two with linked brakes is not recommended because it unbalances the bike (the opposite of what I'm trying to do) thats why I'd like a 'disable' option on the brakes)

I may be 'old school' or spent too many years racing (with 'normal' brakes) to adapt to this new fangled gizmology but if they can make it adjustable I'd advocate for it to be opt outable.

The Pope · « **Reply #39 on:** August 19, 2011, 03:42:30 AM »

Quote from: Kiwi Graham on August 18, 2011, 03:17:06 PM

For me its about feel, I use the rear brake to tighten lines, manage rear grip on the gas and balance the bike during hard braking (the linking doesnt really effect this) doing the former two with linked brakes is not recommended because it unbalances the bike (the opposite of what I'm trying to do) thats why I'd like a 'disable' option on the brakes.

+1

News:

Author Topic: 2012 C14 (Read 25863 times)