Starting without transponder?

[Conrad]

I'm MGvalerio not talking about the 15 second interval after switch off.  I'm talking about anytime. 

Will the bike be damaged by this process? I'd love to know how this works but I certainly do not want to see it in a public forum.

[MGvalerio]

Io informo  ;)non divulgo ci mancherebbe.


Potete pure cancellare il tutto.

MGvalerio.

[Son of Pappy]

I too would like to know, but more along the lines of what I would need to do to prevent this.  Eventually this will find its way to the net, I agree with Jim, I wouldnt want this info on this forum.  I would like someone such as Brian (BDF) to have the info so maybe he can upgrade his KIPASS Bypass switch to also become a disable switch.  If Fred has some insight I would hope he is working on a fix, along with mama Kaw as well.....  Maybe a keyed  battery disconnect and associated bypasses to keep the clock and associated items powered.

[B.D.F.]

This whole thread is kinda' funny. Really funny in fact. If we only had photos of a dancing bear with music playing, it would be perfect. 

All C-14's have always had this feature (or crutch) as a function of KiPass. It is even published somewhere, either in the service manual or one of Kawasaki's bulletins (I cannot remember). It is in place so if you lose a fob while riding, and shut the bike off, you have a very short time (I thought it was 10 seconds but either way) to re-start the bike without the fob. It is a safety / convenience feature and probably meant so that the bike can be restarted should it stall, not after you shut it down. It is really a very minor thing and certainly nothing to worry about IMO.

Brian

+1.  I don't know why you would want to restart it that quickly during normal operations.  I guess if you are riding naked (well you have the transponder taped or inserted somewhere) and sprint to the nearest clothing store, I imagine any crook looking for an easy steal would take that opportunity (after reading the manual of course to know that this happens) steal our beloved bike and motor off into the sunset.

Seriously, though, what occasion would cause someone to need to do that?  My thoughts are that when it's turned off, it should be off.

[B.D.F.]

Chet, it is simply not a problem. It is a feature but really it is something that does not impact any C-14 owner.

First of all, you have to have a bike that was started with a fob (the normal way) and lose it while riding. The bike has to detect the fact that the fob has fallen out of range. Then when you shut the bike down, there is a 10 (I believe) second window in which the bike can be restarted, still without a valid fob in range. So let's think about how someone would steal the bike: you would have to lose the fob while riding, then park the bike, shut it off and get far enough away that a person lurking could reach the bike and start it in that 10 second time frame. Further, that person would have to either ride off extremely quickly or disable the owner- after all, how far away could you be in 10 seconds? Hell, most of us C-14 owners are so old that we can no longer run except on great occasion and even then only to get to a bathroom.

C'mon folks, this is simply not a real issue. The darn bike is so robust and reliable that we have to look for things to worry about.

As far as that Fred thing of long ago, that was about removing the ignition switch housing and turning the ignition switch without the key. STILL the bike would not start but it would crank. Big deal- so if a thief brings tools and works on my bike's ignition for a while, he or she can then crank the starter but NOT START the bike. You can do that with any vehicle on the planet with nothing but a pair of wire cutters (engage the starter). Sounds like a lot of work for no return unless someone really gets his / her jollies from cranking other people's vehicles and then leaving them where they are.... ?

Brian

Brian

I too would like to know, but more along the lines of what I would need to do to prevent this.  Eventually this will find its way to the net, I agree with Jim, I wouldnt want this info on this forum.  I would like someone such as Brian (BDF) to have the info so maybe he can upgrade his KIPASS Bypass switch to also become a disable switch.  If Fred has some insight I would hope he is working on a fix, along with mama Kaw as well.....  Maybe a keyed  battery disconnect and associated bypasses to keep the clock and associated items powered.

[Conrad]

Brian,

We're past the 10/15 second window where the bike can be started, under the right conditions, without the fob/transponder.  As far fetched as it sounds, MGvalerio claims that he can start the bike anytime without a fob. See post 18.

This Polar Bear sure can Dance

[MGvalerio]

Brian,

We're past the 10/15 second window where the bike can be started, under the right conditions, without the fob/transponder.  As far fetched as it sounds, MGvalerio claims that he can start the bike anytime without a fob. See post 18.

This Polar Bear sure can Dance

OKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOK OKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOK  Finalmente qualcuno a capito di cosa parlo.

MGvalerio.

[B.D.F.]

Chet, it is simply not a problem. It is a feature but really it is something that does not impact any C-14 owner.

First of all, you have to have a bike that was started with a fob (the normal way) and lose it while riding. The bike has to detect the fact that the fob has fallen out of range. Then when you shut the bike down, there is a 10 (I believe) second window in which the bike can be restarted, still without a valid fob in range. So let's think about how someone would steal the bike: you would have to lose the fob while riding, then park the bike, shut it off and get far enough away that a person lurking could reach the bike and start it in that 10 second time frame. Further, that person would have to either ride off extremely quickly or disable the owner- after all, how far away could you be in 10 seconds? Hell, most of us C-14 owners are so old that we can no longer run except on great occasion and even then only to get to a bathroom.

C'mon folks, this is simply not a real issue. The darn bike is so robust and reliable that we have to look for things to worry about.

As far as that Fred thing of long ago, that was about removing the ignition switch housing and turning the ignition switch without the key. STILL the bike would not start but it would crank. Big deal- so if a thief brings tools and works on my bike's ignition for a while, he or she can then crank the starter but NOT START the bike. You can do that with any vehicle on the planet with nothing but a pair of wire cutters (engage the starter). Sounds like a lot of work for no return unless someone really gets his / her jollies from cranking other people's vehicles and then leaving them where they are.... ?

Brian

[B.D.F.]

Well, as a wise man once said.....

I find this VERY hard to believe.

 

Brian

Brian,

We're past the 10/15 second window where the bike can be started, under the right conditions, without the fob/transponder.  As far fetched as it sounds, MGvalerio claims that he can start the bike anytime without a fob. See post 18.

[Conrad]

You didn't like my dancing bear?

[Son of Pappy]

I kinda figured that Brian, but, I was dreading an FJR

[B.D.F.]

I love the dancing bear. Now get him (is it a 'him'? I don't see a fob....)

Now if you could just get him to start a C-14.... without a fob, I think I can speak for the entire forum when I say we would be truly impressed.

Brian

You didn't like my dancing bear?

[So Cal Joe]

 The early 750 Honda's  was very easy to steal, (not that I ever did it), the key was located below the gas tank, so if you carried your own ignition switch you just unplugged the one on the bike and plugged yours in and ride off.
I think that IF it is possible to start the bike without the FOB it might be a good thing to know for those of us that own one. But not a good thing for us if those wanting to own one without paying for it!!

[C1xRider]

OKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOK OKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOK  Finalmente qualcuno a capito di cosa parlo.

MGvalerio.

MGvalerio, if your bike can be started without your FOB in your hand, your pocket, or near the bike, then either your C14 is defective, or there is another FOB hidden somewhere on the bike.

Did you buy this bike new or used?  What year GTR is it?  The pre-2010 US models came with 2 active FOBs, and it was not uncommon for someone to put one somewhere on the bike, resulting in this scenario.

[B.D.F.]

<amused smile> There was someone who did a bunch of really elaborate testing and documenting about how far away he could have the fob from the bike and yet the bike still started up just fine. If I remember correctly, his fob would actually work from six stories up in a hotel (the bike was on the ground at the time). Then some weeks later he found the other fob that the previous owner had left in the saddlebag. At least he was honest enough to 'fess up and let us all know what was really going on after he found the other fob....

KiPass uses Mitsubishi's MISTY encryption system. The bike needs to have a fob w/in range (less than 6 feet (2 meters) on my bike) to unlock the ignition and be started. Even if you take the ignition apart and jumper the electrical side to power the bike up and then engage the starter it will not start because until KiPass has authenticated a fob, the ECU will not provide any power to the ignition coils. The system is based on positive additives rather than negative blocking- it is not possible for a defect or missing component(s) to allow the bike to be unlocked / started without a valid fob; there will simply be no spark when the engine cranks unless there is a fob present and KiPass is functioning correctly.

Unless of course we are speaking about evoking the secret KiPass incantation- then all bets are off.

Brian

MGvalerio, if your bike can be started without your FOB in your hand, your pocket, or near the bike, then either your C14 is defective, or there is another FOB hidden somewhere on the bike.

Did you buy this bike new or used?  What year GTR is it?  The pre-2010 US models came with 2 active FOBs, and it was not uncommon for someone to put one somewhere on the bike, resulting in this scenario.