Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: lather on May 24, 2012, 04:06:07 PM
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I have been using Shell Rotella Synthetic 5W40 in all my bikes for the last 12 yearss or more.. Great results in my 99 VFR which now has 128,000 miles and runs as great as when new and which uses no measureable oil between 6000 mile changes. Recently there was a post here reporting oil analysis results of the same oil on a C14 posted on another forum that were not so good and someone made the conclusion that Rotella was not adequate for the C14. Concerned, I decided to get my oil analyzed. I submitted a sample to Blackstone Labs from my 08 C14 at 72551 miles after 5803 miles normal but varied riding.
The report comments:
ROBERT: This first sample from your Concours is looking really good. Universal averages show typical
wear levels for this type of engine after about 3,000 miles on the oil. That fact that wear metals are looking
this good after almost twice as long on the oil as average shows an engine that is wearing very well. A little
fuel dilution was present, but that's not unusual in bikes, and 0.5% isn't cautionary. The viscosity was in the
5W/30 range. Fuel may have thinned it out a little. The TBN was strong at 6.2 showing lots of active additive
remaining. Try 8,000 miles on the next oil.
I have not yet read their detailed numbers explanation but needless to say I am very pleased with the results and plan to resume use of Rotella.
The oil currently in the crankcase is Motul "real" esther synthetic 300V 15W50 at slightly more than twice the cost of the Rotella. I have asked for a sample bottle and will have this oil analyzed at a similar interval and report back.
BTW, I have not noticed any difference in performamce (or notchyness).
Let me see if I can attach the report
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Great finding. I always feel good using Rotella.
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after about 3,000 miles on the oil. That fact that wear metals are looking
this good after almost twice as long on the oil as average shows an engine that is wearing very well. A little
fuel dilution was present, but that's not unusual in bikes, and 0.5% isn't cautionary. The viscosity was in the
5W/30 range.
So, after 3k miles, it sheered down to a 5-30w? Mama Kawa specs at least 40w on the upper end of viscosity. In summer riding here where it gets pretty hot, I'll stick with something that actually holds up. Whenever I am riding in Las Vegas, there is lots of traffic and even though it might only be 113 degrees, in traffic with all the cars putting out heat, it is hotter and I think this bike needs higher than 5-30 oil.
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So, after 3k miles, it sheered down to a 5-30w? Mama Kawa specs at least 40w on the upper end of viscosity. In summer riding here where it gets pretty hot, I'll stick with something that actually holds up. Whenever I am riding in Las Vegas, there is lots of traffic and even though it might only be 113 degrees, in traffic with all the cars putting out heat, it is hotter and I think this bike needs higher than 5-30 oil.
All oils will thin out as they are used. The engineers who write the specs for an engine know this and allow for it, which is why they call for a certain oil. It isn't something you have to think about.
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The oil sheared to 5w30 after 5803 miles. I would be willing to bet that 10w40 of another brand would have sheared down as well at that mileage.
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The 3000 figure is apparently the averaghe of samples received by Blackstone for this type engine, mine went a bit over 5800 and performed better than the 3000 mile average. Blackstone suggests I go 8000 miles. In other words, the $22.00 per gallon Rotella "HELD UP" pretty well. Can't wait to see how the $55.00 per gallon Motul does.
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Betcha the Rotella will have the better results than the Motul. Since the Rotella was designed for diesel engines (read severe service and shear), I would think the surviving a motorcycle engine/transmission would be a cake walk.
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Thanks for sharing! I have been using Rotela in my bikes and ATV's for years also and have wondered if I am being penny wise and pound foolish. I will be very interested in seeing the report on Motul.
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here is my 5k mile mobil 1 4t 10/40 for comparison. not sure what any of this means, not sure if it helps. ???
Joel
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Good feedback! Thanks!
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Betcha the Rotella will have the better results than the Motul. S
Betcha it won't. Rotella is dino oil, group III HC dino oil, which breaks down. Real synthetics (like Motul which has ester and pao oil) don't.
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THANKS for sharing these fine results.
Oil thread with conclusive data.... now this is SERIOUS (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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Betcha it won't. Rotella is dino oil, group III HC dino oil, which breaks down. Real synthetics (like Motul which has ester and pao oil) don't.
I'm a fan of MOTUL too, but hey I throw Rotella Synth in the Connie at a fraction of the cost and change it long before break down. 52,000 and going strong...whats it matter (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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Betcha it won't. Rotella is dino oil, group III HC dino oil, which breaks down. Real synthetics (like Motul which has ester and pao oil) don't.
Proof to back that up, and that the difference is substantial?
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I'm a fan of MOTUL too, but hey I throw Rotella Synth in the Connie at a fraction of the cost and change it long before break down. 52,000 and going strong...whats it matter (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
So glad we have choices... I've run Motul and many other M/C specific synthetics in all of my bikes for the past 10+ years. But I always find that they like the Rotella better. The only downside I find with the old Rotella T (now I think it's the T5) is that is stank just a wee bit more than other oils when hot. My bikes seem (to me) run better on the Rotella, nothing (engine/transmission wise) has exploded or locked up, it costs less and is readily available. That makes it a winner in my book.
Again, glad we have choices...
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Betcha it won't. Rotella is dino oil, group III HC dino oil, which breaks down. Real synthetics (like Motul which has ester and pao oil) don't.
Well, I do expect the Motul to perform better but time will tell. The Mobil 1 Racing 4T report posted by Joel provides some interesting comparison. Some Rotella numbers are better and some Mobil 1 numbers are better with the Mobil slightly better at retaining viscosity. I expect the Motul to be better than both. But the main point to me is that at less than half the price, my results indicate the Rotella is more than adequate for 6000 miles.
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Katata, So far we have had 2 oil sample reports on two different bikes running Rotella. Care to send an oil sample of your bike oil into Blackstone when it gets to 3 or 6k miles?
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Katata, So far we have had 2 oil sample reports on two different bikes running Rotella. Care to send an oil sample of your bike oil into Blackstone when it gets to 3 or 6k miles?
Sure, but you'll have to wait awhile as I just changed it last month, switched out the Maxima Ultra with Redline 5-40 bike oil. I plan on having 3000 miles on it by Mid Oct as I will be taking on a few long trips between now and then.
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For all the
arguing discussion about oil on the 'Net, there is really precious little information (data) available. The only research specifically about motor oil performance in reciprocating auto engines that I am aware of was a report done by Consumer Reports some years ago. IIRC it was a 60K mile test starting with either new or rebuild engines, measured before assembly, and then installed in NYC taxis and used with various oil types and brands. The results were inconclusive: all oils seemed to perform the same.
Even if we had enough documentation on used oil analysis we still would not know how the oil was performing as a lubricant, at least beyond the obvious failure which I do not think any of us really expect. I am a fan of things like these oil reports and appreciate those who take the time to post them but no one can really judge the performance of a motor oil based on those reports.
I think what is going on is that all oil is so very good that the differences don't really show up. If someone was to use oil that was from, say, 70 years ago (before modern detergents and multi- weight technology) then I would expect to see a difference in engine lifespan and performance deterioration. Otherwise I believe we can use any / all oil available to use with confidence.
One thing I am surprised at is those of you who find the shifting of your C-14's to be good using the new Rotella synthetic 5W-40. Mine shifted like it had sand in the gearbox when Shell reformulated that stuff and I ended up going to the mineral Rotella, 15W-40 weight.
But all of this does make for an interesting thread.
Brian
Well, I do expect the Motul to perform better but time will tell. The Mobil 1 Racing 4T report posted by Joel provides some interesting comparison. Some Rotella numbers are better and some Mobil 1 numbers are better with the Mobil . I expect the Motul to be better than both. But the main point to me is that at less than half the price, my results indicate the Rotella is more than adequate for 6000 miles.
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Mine does shift better with the regular good ole Rotella, and it is cheaper too. :)
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I have used the Rotella T6 5W40 since new and it shifts great. I only have 2500 miles on it and have nothing to compare it to. But it has shifted smooth with no problems. Maybe I need to try something else for comparison?
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I have used the Rotella T6 5W40 since new and it shifts great. I only have 2500 miles on it and have nothing to compare it to. But it has shifted smooth with no problems. Maybe I need to try something else for comparison?
Why would you change, just keep doing what your doing IMHO. ;)
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I know the Rotella T6 is a group III oil and was thinking maybe a true group IV synthetic would be better like the Mobil 1 4T 10w40. I was told the Mobil 1 turbo diesel truck oil would be better than the Rotella T6. Anyone try it?
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Mine does shift better with the regular good ole Rotella, and it is cheaper too. :)
+1 on the plain ole' Rotella dino.
I still haven't sent my bottle from Blackstone in, I guess I am just not worried enough about the condition of my motor. Performs great, gets good fuel mileage when I can restrain my right wrist, and never fails to start. I couldn't ask for anything more.
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I know the Rotella T6 is a group III oil and was thinking maybe a true group IV synthetic would be better like the Mobil 1 4T 10w40. I was told the Mobil 1 turbo diesel truck oil would be better than the Rotella T6. Anyone try it?
Not sure that it is actually a group IV.
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Exactly- once the lawsuit was over, and the court system in the US had decided that group III oils could be called synthetic, Mobil began using group III as synthetic themselves. And it was Mobil on the other side of that legal argument saying that synthetic oils were only those which were man made (the actual definition of 'synthetic'). Mobil introduced synthetic oil to the public, fought against [I think it was Castrol] for calling mineral oil that met sufficient specifications being called synthetic, lost and then began selling mineral oil as synthetic oil based on the very lawsuit that they lost. That story has irony all over it....
So now it is far more difficult to choose true synthetic oil from the myriad of oils that say 'synthetic' on the container. Sheesh.
By the way, Rotella is not man made either but mineral oil…. even the stuff labeled ‘synthetic’.
Brian
Not sure that it is actually a group IV.
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Sure, but you'll have to wait awhile as I just changed it last month, switched out the Maxima Ultra with Redline 5-40 bike oil. I plan on having 3000 miles on it by Mid Oct as I will be taking on a few long trips between now and then.
3,000 miles in six months, including "a few long trips", sure doesn't sound like you're riding it much. Just sayin'. ;)
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This is a good read, although a little old:
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html (http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html)
I have only used Chevron "Diesel" oil for about the last 8 years and been pretty happy with it. Never tried Rotella, although I might next time.
Been riding for 40 years and the one thing I noticed with certainty is the trannie on a bike is hard on oil. Change the oil, shifting is like butter for 500-1,000 miles then it slowly loses the smoothness. Unfortunately there are very few people who keep a bike long enough to lay claim to any valid wear issues with the oil they are using.
There is a lady on the FZ forum who has 200,000 miles on her FZ and on original rings. Now thats a testament to the brand of oil she uses.
Oil is cheap, change it often, and forget about it. Your motor will outlast your love of whatever you are riding at the present.
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For all the arguing discussion about oil on the 'Net, there is really precious little information (data) available. The only research specifically about motor oil performance in reciprocating auto engines that I am aware of was a report done by Consumer Reports some years ago. IIRC it was a 60K mile test starting with either new or rebuild engines, measured before assembly, and then installed in NYC taxis and used with various oil types and brands. The results were inconclusive: all oils seemed to perform the same.
That was a lame test for the following reasons:
1) The cars were taxis run around the clock- they didn't have cold starts where most wear occurs
2) The cars were Chevy Caprices with stock gearing- peak power with stock gears doesn't occur unless you are doing over 45 in first, something that is very difficult to do in NY traffic. The driving conditions were pretty tame for these cars (I have an Impala SS).
3) Funny how they want to make things relevent to their readers, yet chose a car that is most unlike what readers have- a perimeter frame car with a tq rich ohv V8
that loafs through the city.
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3,000 miles in six months, including "a few long trips", sure doesn't sound like you're riding it much. Just sayin'. ;)
A long trip is > 3000 miles IMNSHO
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Yep, most people who choose synthetic oil do find that test 'incorrect'. :-) It may not have been what you would have chosen for testing parameters but they explained it very well by saying they needed a lot of identical vehicles, driven under the same conditions, and the vehicles had to rack up a lot of mileage quickly. NYC taxis fit that bill nicely. No one said it was an ideal test, just that it is about the only data available; all the other data is either one- off and can't be compared to anything else or is anecdotal- 'I've been using Brand X oil for XXX years and never had any oil related trouble', which does not mean anything at all because again it cannot be compared to anything else.
I think one interesting thing to note about the C.R. test is that all the engines were in just about perfect condition at 60K miles, as we would expect. Perhaps a better test would be to use trucks (tractor- trailers), some running mineral oil and some running synthetic, and rack up a million miles on the engine and then tear them down? Again, not the same type of usage as most people driving their cars to work but it would be possible to get that kind of information fairly quickly.
Brian
That was a lame test for the following reasons:
1) The cars were taxis run around the clock- they didn't have cold starts where most wear occurs
2) The cars were Chevy Caprices with stock gearing- peak power with stock gears doesn't occur unless you are doing over 45 in first, something that is very difficult to do in NY traffic. The driving conditions were pretty tame for these cars (I have an Impala SS).
3) Funny how they want to make things relevent to their readers, yet chose a car that is most unlike what readers have- a perimeter frame car with a tq rich ohv V8
that loafs through the city.
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3,000 miles in six months, including "a few long trips", sure doesn't sound like you're riding it much. Just sayin'. ;)
I also have a kat 1100 which I ride more than you'd think. Besides, my summer is already taken with other things.
In two weeks, I load up the family in the jetta tdi, drive to Vegas to spend five days there, then drive to LA, go Raging Waters for a few days then see a Dodger game. Immediately after that, we fly out to Kona, spend 9 days there, come back, drive to Pismo, spend two days there, then come home. Five days later, wife and I drive up to Seattle, catch a 7 day Alaska cruise.
I'll be putting on 2000 miles on the C14 when I go to the International Beer Festival in Denver in Oct.
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As my father told me: The type or brand of oil is not important, just make sure it has oil in it!!
He gave me this advice right after I burned up the push mower ???
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As my father told me: The type or brand of oil is not important, just make sure it has oil in it!!
He gave me this advice right after I burned up the push mower ???
:rotflmao: