Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Son of Pappy on January 07, 2012, 05:59:51 PM
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I dont see my self doing a dyno run, I'm really only interested in my impressions. There, got that out of the way.
Why? Because I want to do it, if it adds more top end great, if it doesnt and things suffer I can always reverse what I have done.
Heres my setup, '08 non ABS, AreaP full system, PCV and auto tune. I will share my MAP for anyone interested once I have everything dialed in.
A step by step has been done and from what I can tell the manual does a really nice job of how to. I'll share my impressions from a recovering back surgery, fair mechanicaly inclined rider.
So far I have the left side plastics off, tank off, left side TB grommets loose, and left side subframe bracket. So far nothing major. I should have the TBs off by this evening. Wish me luck.
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:popcorn:
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YOU'LL SHOOT YOUR EYE OUT!!!!!!!!
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O.K. whats a TB?
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O.K. whats a TB?
throttle body
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/ksjdiwue8w.jpg)
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:D
I'm sorry, what were we talking about :P
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throttle body
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/ksjdiwue8w.jpg)
Where are my glasses???
So, out with the old, in with the new. So far no SNAFUs that I can tell. I swapped the C14 injectors into the ZX TBs, added some plumbing to make sync easier, used small zip ties to keep track of which tube was one and which was 4. I finessed the TBs back in place, still need to seat them, which will come after I get that (&&(%$@^^_(& plug re hooked to that itty bitty tab (if I had re read the manual I would have known to use a flat tip to release the tab). Getting the fuel line reattached should be easier then it was to remove. I think if all goes as good as the removal I may fire her up tonight. I will also be re routing my Gerbings plugs, may as well while everything is apart.
ZG, have you seen my glasses? I think I'm going blind ;)
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ZG, have you seen my glasses? I think I'm going blind ;)
Sorry bro, I asked my wife to hold it in a way that the kitchen light wouldn't glare on it, my bad... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_dunno.gif)
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Sorry bro, I asked my wife to hold it in a way that the kitchen light wouldn't glare on it, my bad... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_dunno.gif)
They sure are polished nicely ;D
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Sounds like an interesting install. Can't wait to hear the results.
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So, just for humor, why is it some of the biggest troubles involve ****? No, not those ZG, the ones on the TB boot clamps :yikes:
So, I aint done yet, the back is about done. So far the biggest issue has been me, such as forgetting to lube up the lower boots BEFORE I get the TBs slid in, do it the first time, use a light coat of grease, CLP didnt work any better then dry. Make sure you hook up the fuel line BEFORE you wrestle the TBs on. Ensure all clamps are at thier max looseness, BEFORE you slide in the TBs. By far the most difficult portion was getting the TBs installed into the lower boots, even properly lubed up they were not easy. So, I am to the point of battery, tank, plastics, and a helmet. I wont be able to get to the remainder until tomorow eve, I have a bunch of fruit trees to prune for my father and I need to take advantage of the brief dry spell we are experiencing. This really isnt as hard as I am making it, I would rate it somewhere around a 6 or 7. I also learned I really need to up my lighting on the garage side of the shop.
Stay tuned for more, I've waited close to a year to do this, I'm going to double check everything before the plastic goes on. Time for a Crown and Coke :)
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throttle body
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/ksjdiwue8w.jpg)
Nice throttle body!
:chugbeer:
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Those throttle bodies need to be tweaked......just sayin.
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Those throttle bodies need to be tweaked......just sayin.
Who cares......? The throttle bodies still look usable to me.
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Who cares......? The throttle bodies still look usable to me.
I care......because they are begging to be tweaked!!!!!!
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I thought usable and tweaked were the same thing..... :stirpot:
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Hope your throttle body change works as good as my Darkside/Cartire is working for me :chugbeer:
Keep us informed on your progress.
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Will do Roland, thanks for the beer :chugbeer:
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Very curious to hear the results on this. Thanks for keeping us updated.
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I was just poking a little fun :) But really I hope your changeover goes well and Keep us informed.
Al
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I was just poking a little fun :) But really I hope your changeover goes well and Keep us informed.
Al
Al, I can take the good natured ribbing maybe as well as you do, would you believe that Christopher Columbus was ridiculed?
Things didnt go as planned today, she sits naked and untouched today. Between fruit trees yesterday and physical therapy I am as sore as I can ever remember, but it's a good sore ;D
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Leaving her sitting naked and untouched is just Sooooooo Wrong!!!!! ;)
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Al, I can take the good natured ribbing maybe as well as you do, would you believe that Christopher Columbus was ridiculed?
Things didnt go as planned today, she sits naked and untouched today. Between fruit trees yesterday and physical therapy I am as sore as I can ever remember, but it's a good sore ;D
I pruned a pear tree that hadn't been touched in 10 years about a month ago. Bought an electric chain saw just for the occasion. So I was up a tree with a chain saw pruning 8 inch diameter suckers... I got it done without cutting any of the important bits off, but it took me all day. I was sore as well.
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quit guzzling your crown and cokes and get back to work! ya got peeps out here anxiously waitin!
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Finished! She fired up no problem, she was a little rich but once I have the trims all done I am sure that will be gone. I suited up, rode to the gas station, filled up, and did a really short run. I don't have any earth shattering impression yet but she was as smooth as silk when I did a short WFO on the onramp. They are calling for snow the next coupla days so I dont think I will get all the trims accepted. I'm just happy I didn't have one of them epic Haroldo type threads.
So, by far the most trouble was getting the TBs into the lower grommets, I would rate this as a 5 overall for level of difficulty and I am at a 5 for satisfaction, time and miles will determine the overall size of my smile. Once I have the trims all settled down I will send the MAP to anyone who is interested. As it sits right now I would do it again, if for nothing else the experience.
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I really wanna see the stripped tweaked throttlebodies.........
:popcorn:
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I am also really interested in your results; I too have had the ZX TB’s on my bench for close to a year and I’ll definitely take you up of your offer to share the map once done.
I understand that this mod will increase the mid to top end but what about say under 5000 rpm where I do 95% of my riding, does it pull harder here? Some have said that we may even loose some of the bottom end torque with the larger TB’s. The flyotamy, full area P, and PCV did wonders to the bottom end just curious what effect the ZX TB’s have on it.
I’m also curious about fuel mileage. I still go on a number of trips and have enjoyed the increase in range I have got with the two previous mods.
Keep us posted.
Thanks,
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:popcorn:, I also awaiting your findings as this is a mod on my list to do...
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maybe someone will actually do a before and after dyno.......I also dont want to sacrifice anything below 5 grand just to pick up a few HP above that and like coomers, i like the MPG benefits of the full system/intake etc.....would hate to see that diminished for a marginal increase in the upper ranges......its hard to have it all......
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Once the weather warms up and the snow/ice clears I will be doing the infamous volume test. Some may remember the method used way back in '08, it involved tape and a 55 gallon trash bag. The imperical data is gone, I am hoping that Brian (BDF) kept the results from the various testers. The original test was about flies in and out at idle. What I would like to do is add the overall increase of a flyless, full AreaP, BMC, ZX14 TB vs the stock exhaust flyless bike. If Brian doesn't have the original results we will need a volunteer to record their results. This is best done on a cold exhaust, if I remember correctly Bob (aka Cap'n Bob) argued that a hot bike would result in a more accurate reading. In doing his testing he somehow ended up with a bit of melted bag around the stove knob. This test isn't for the faint hearted, Bob ended up buying an FJR, so use extreme caution, we don't need anymore riders going backwards on technology ;D Heck, it was so bad he started his own snuggy forum :-X
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I don't have the test results but I do have the test excuse list.... "The bike isn't running right and Kawasaki wants a stool sample" and so forth.
I think I can speak for everyone, even Mrs. Cap'n Bob, when I say that we are all extremely happy that 'what happens in a snuggy stays in the snuggy'. I have a mental image and it ain't pretty....
Brian
Once the weather warms up and the snow/ice clears I will be doing the infamous volume test. Some may remember the method used way back in '08, it involved tape and a 55 gallon trash bag. The imperical data is gone, I am hoping that Brian (BDF) kept the results from the various testers. The original test was about flies in and out at idle. What I would like to do is add the overall increase of a flyless, full AreaP, BMC, ZX14 TB vs the stock exhaust flyless bike. If Brian doesn't have the original results we will need a volunteer to record their results. This is best done on a cold exhaust, if I remember correctly Bob (aka Cap'n Bob) argued that a hot bike would result in a more accurate reading. In doing his testing he somehow ended up with a bit of melted bag around the stove knob. This test isn't for the faint hearted, Bob ended up buying an FJR, so use extreme caution, we don't need anymore riders going backwards on technology ;D Heck, it was so bad he started his own snuggy forum :-X
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Hope your throttle body change works as good as my Darkside/Cartire is working for me :chugbeer:
Keep us informed on your progress.
Im sorry but........... :doublepuke:
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Just ordered the ZX 14 TB's - Son of Pappy it is all your fault! :)
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Just ordered the ZX 14 TB's - Son of Pappy it is all your fault! :)
Dont forget to do the volume test before the swap ;)
Shoot me a PM when you get ready to do the actual swap, hopefully you get to them alot sooner then I did, I'll be on standby when you're ready. It really isn't as difficult as I made it, slow and steady, plenty of lube, and totaly loose clamps-before the TBs are back in the frame.
I can't wait to do a WFO run at the track 8)
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What is the volume test and how do I do that? I installed my area P and am hoping I can pull this off too. It makes sense that it will help with top end, I hope to see improvement in mid range and possibly low also - one can hope. Did you have to remove the bumps for the clamps someone else mentioned they removed before they could get the velocity stacks to slide back on? Just curious. I am hoping to do it in February, not much riding then anyway.
Thanks, David
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BDF has a list of materials and instructions for the Barnum and Bailey volume test ;) I didnt need to remove the little bumps, but only because I opened the clamps fully, I cant stress the BEFORE TB insertion, especially the lower clamps. It is more intimadating to look at then it is to do it. Don't forget to add some vacume lines to help with syning the TBs down the road. I will check my down the road, if for nothing else just to add something else to my own knowledge.
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I appreciate the input. I will definately pm you before I start the tear down. Just what I need, another farkle ::)
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maybe someone will actually do a before and after dyno.......I also dont want to sacrifice anything below 5 grand just to pick up a few HP above that and like coomers, i like the MPG benefits of the full system/intake etc.....would hate to see that diminished for a marginal increase in the upper ranges......its hard to have it all......
nsrrider: Do you really mean you don't want to sacrifice anything below 5 grand just to pick up a few HP? Does that mean you wouldn't mind if it cost you over 5 grand to pick up a few HP? Lew :o
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nsrrider: Do you really mean you don't want to sacrifice anything below 5 grand just to pick up a few HP? Does that mean you wouldn't mind if it cost you over 5 grand to pick up a few HP? Lew :o
He meant he didn't want to sacrifice any power below 5,000 rpm to gain top end hp. ::)
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He meant he didn't want to sacrifice any power below 5,000 rpm to gain top end hp. ::)
yes, what he said.....
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It has been mid 50s the last three days, weather I consider as optimal for riding and yet here I sit wondering, no, lusting for a nice ride. Trust me, once I get a good ride in I'll share. I wont be able to do any high speed stuff, but I can wring out first and second without feeling too much like a squid and I can certainly do some slow speed work to see how responsive things feel. I'll accept trims after a coupla rides and probably stop at that. Next to family and health this is at the top of my priority list...I have an Advanced Street Skills in July, I wring every bit out of her I can, at lunch time the coaches getta play on a clear track, which means WFO ;D One of my fellow coaches rides his close to stock R1, last time we hit it together his gain was small, as was a well setup Triumph Trip. I'm hoping that I see a modest gain on them and expecting to at least hang with them. I may head to E WA where there are some lightly traveled roads where I may do some trip. trips, just depends on traffic, if there is any, I dont do anything stupid, but the trip is long so I bet I get at least one good run in through at least 3rd gear.
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So, finally, a real ride!!!!!!! Outside temps mid 40s, 200 feet above sea level. I accepted the trims as I was very happy with the feel, no noticeable down low torque loss and an apprecciable gain at upper Rs. I had a good float from second to third pre ZX TBs, but I have full lift off now, enough that I did a slight roll off and back on. I won't have a full impression until I either get out in the sticks or the track, but as things stand now I am happy with my early impressions. If anyone wants a copy of the Autotune generated MAP send me a PM with your email and I'll have it on it's way.
First real ride since surgery and I am so, so pumped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Great news and I'm glad that you're feeling better!
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Glad to hear you are starting to feel better! Thanks for the impression and I will be sending you a pm for some install pointers and possibly the fuel map. I am thinking I will get the auto tune, but if not, your map will be much appreciated. If things work out, I may be able to get a dyno run before and after the TB install. I am curious about the losses/gains at different revs. Thanks for your info so far!
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You got it Spanky, ask away :)
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Glad to hear you're getting back on your
feet seat bro! :)
:grouphug:
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So, finally, a real ride!!!!!!! Outside temps mid 40s, 200 feet above sea level. I accepted the trims as I was very happy with the feel, no noticeable down low torque loss and an apprecciable gain at upper Rs. I had a good float from second to third pre ZX TBs, but I have full lift off now, enough that I did a slight roll off and back on. I won't have a full impression until I either get out in the sticks or the track, but as things stand now I am happy with my early impressions. If anyone wants a copy of the Autotune generated MAP send me a PM with your email and I'll have it on it's way.
First real ride since surgery and I am so, so pumped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So I read this about 3 times and I still have to ask... A good float meaning front wheel slightly off the ground from 2nd to 3rd gear and now front end comes up even more?
Inquiring minds need to know because I have full Muzzy, BMC, Power Commander and Autotune and no way is my first end coming off the ground unless Im in first gear. I would love to get a little air in 2nd but that is just a dream with a bike this heavy...
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Before ZX TBs I could get a good float, just off the ground, now it's a coupla inches. Clutchless shift, slight preload, blip throttle, no problems. I wasn't interested in seeing how much higher she would go, at least not now, remember, this is my first real ride since Oct when I had my back surgery, and that saga isn't over yet. The doc said it was OK to ride, "Just be carefull" ;) I'm thinking a quickshifter may be on the horizon ;D
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So I read this about 3 times and I still have to ask... A good float meaning front wheel slightly off the ground from 2nd to 3rd gear and now front end comes up even more?
Inquiring minds need to know because I have full Muzzy, BMC, Power Commander and Autotune and no way is my first end coming off the ground unless Im in first gear. I would love to get a little air in 2nd but that is just a dream with a bike this heavy...
I can get the front end in the air in second gear........... Is something wrong with my bike? :-[
;D ;D ;D ;D
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I can get the front end in the air in second gear........... Is something wrong with my bike? :(
;D ;D ;D ;D
I assume you meant "can't" not can...
Yes our bikes must have a defect...Should be covered under warranty, just show the dealer Son o Pappy's post for prove.... Probably a defective kipass flux capacitor... :rotflmao:
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Mine must be really defective! It won't get the front off without some clutch abuse even in 1st gear. I'm hoping full exhaust and PVC will correct that flaw.
Matt
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I assume you meant "can't" not can...
Yes our bikes must have a defect...Should be covered under warranty, just show the dealer Son o Pappy's post for prove.... Probably a defective kipass flux capacitor... :rotflmao:
My bike is most definitely defective since whacking the throttle open (not the usual roll-on) in second gear above 6,000 rpm will induce pucker factor five. I have unintentionally passed two or three cars with the front wheel one or two feet off the terra firma.
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My bike is most definitely defective since whacking the throttle open (not the usual roll-on) in second gear above 6,000 rpm will induce pucker factor five. I have unintentionally passed two or three cars with the front wheel one or two feet off the terra firma.
Without a turbo I find this very hard to believe... :loco: On second thought you are probably correct... as mine does the same thing as long as I have the big ass Corbin trunk hanging off the back... lol
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Without a turbo I find this very hard to believe... :loco: On second thought you are probably correct... as mine does the same thing as long as I have the big ass Corbin trunk hanging off the back... lol
What color is your bike? If it isn't silverdammit then you have found your problem.
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What color is your bike? If it isn't silverdammit then you have found your problem.
It is the fastest color known...silver 08... But it is dirty so perhaps it is starting to act like those slow black ones.... I will wash it and see if that helps... Lol
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Without a turbo I find this very hard to believe... :loco: On second thought you are probably correct... as mine does the same thing as long as I have the big ass Corbin trunk hanging off the back... lol
;D ;D ;D
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/Conniewheelie2.jpg)
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;D ;D ;D
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/Conniewheelie2.jpg)
And he even had his windshield up! ;D
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And he even had his windshield up! ;D
Maybe it's like flaps up or down on a plane... ;)
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Nice photo shop on the color ;D I bet a 10 and up wont do that ;D
;D ;D ;D
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/Conniewheelie2.jpg)
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I bet a 10 and up wont do that ;D
Ktrack won't let it will it?? ??? :-\
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Ktrack won't let it will it?? ??? :-\
Nope, I can see it now, dump clutch, rapid rise and sudden slam :o Or a first gear porpoise effect ;)
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;D ;D ;D
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/Conniewheelie2.jpg)
Obvious Photoshop; everyone knows shafties can't wheelie.
Actually, chop throttle and crank it in 2nd gear above 4500 rpm will loft my front tire just like that.
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It is not the takeoff that worries me it is always the landing... Takes some practice to come down at a nice controlled pace to avoid slamming the 600 plus pound beast into the ground.... Power wise I am still in tuning mode as I just installed the full muzzy last week with the autotune... I did have a nice 300 spirited ride with a few sport bikes the other day and even without 100% tune completed I was giving the poor guy on the well tuned (aftermarket Exhaust/Powercommander, etc) CBR1000RR a run for his money, from 45 to 140 he had barely a half a bike on me. Next project is the zx14 throttle body as they are lying on the work bench just begging to be installed :)
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KTRC off = no more porpoising.
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To all the people that have done the ZX14 TB's mod, along with your riding impressions (power and where is it) have you noticed any difference in fuel consumption?
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Son of Pappy,
Have you had more seat time? Any more impressions you may have to share?
When you get a chance and if you feel your bike is dialed in I would like a copy of your PCV map.
Thanks,
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Son of Pappy,
Have you had more seat time? Any more impressions you may have to share?
When you get a chance and if you feel your bike is dialed in I would like a copy of your PCV map.
Thanks,
Long story short, not yet, I just had bi lateral RF on 3 levels (nerve burns, L3, 4, 5) yesterday, still trying to get my back dialed in. Starting to look like Frankenstein back there 8) I'm hoping soon, as I haven't done much in the way of street riding the last 6 months I'm avoiding the wet weather commute till I've done some dry riding, I'm not really confident my "Rider radar" is %100. I'll bookmark the thread so I can have an easy way to locate it and as soon as I get some miles on I'll post up.
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Nice little 80 mile ride today. Words will do little to convey how it feels, but I'll try. I had no idea redline was so close to idle ;D Found the limiter 1st through 3rd, pulls really good. I want to take it to a dyno to get the AFRs optimized and then let the AT take it from there. I dont feel any appreciable loss down low, but a nice gain 6k and up. WFO fuel is like beer in a college kids beer bong, cruising and I see no differance. I am glad I waited till a nice day, twice I felt a nice rear slide, once under throttle and once during rapid decel. I can't wait to get to the track. I think I'll give her a treat and wash her, followed with a little Ice :)
If anyone is on the fence all I can say is to me it is a nice mod, not earth shattering, but certainly worth the effort. How much of a gain? We'll never know for sure, but enough for me. Once I do get it to the dyno I'll post up the results.
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ALL sounds good, I do my best to keep the windshield down , I never had one before , so I have a PROBLEM with it, I guess I like wind noise and AIR FLOW , of course I live in HELL so air flow is NICE, when will the need for speed end?????
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I was inspired by Pappy's post to get off my ass and get mine installed so I took a half day off from work and started at about 1pm and was finished by 5pm... (I work slow and take allot of breaks)
Anyways if you follow the service manual then it is not to bad... I did have some fun getting them to go down on the boots even though I put a little grease on first. Just difficult to get all four of them to seat down proper at the same time but a little patience and my daughters help they eventually went down where they are suppose to.
So I ran it a bit tonight to let the autotune do it's thing and accepted the trims a few times and all I can say is this thing was fast before but it is a beast now! Like someone else posted if you stay in the throttle the front end is coming up in first (not blipping but just rolling into it)... I'm not a little guy (about 240 or so) and the temps in AZ are not ideal for good HP but this thing is making more then before. I had dyno last week with my current mods - Full Muzzy exhaust, Power Commander, Autotune, BMC, and it was 148hp so I am anxious to re-dyno and see what she is making with the throttle bodies... I would guess im at about 155hp :) Nothing left now but the turbo or nitrious... I better be happy for a little awhile cause things are going to get real expensive it I want to go any farther...
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You can install nitrous for around $400.............. ;D
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Rode to work yesterday, as docile as can be, but, I think economy is going to take a hit. I'll fill up this Morning so I can get a better estimate, AVG MPG shows the same, but the fuel bars seem to drop quicker. For some reason every time I see a sport bike I feel like racing ;D wild, aint it great?
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It seems that since I installed the Muzzy that every sport bike (or POS car with a fart can muffler) wants to see what my bike can do. I usually don't pay them any attention but it is fun to show them what my "grandpa" bike can do if the mood strikes me.
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You can install nitrous for around $400.............. ;D
What did you say? I can blow it up for about $400? lol I'll pass and keep the extended warranty. :)
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What did you say? I can blow it up for about $400? lol I'll pass and keep the extended warranty. :)
But it would be fun for that 10 second pass down the 1/4.
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Quick note, commuting has always resulted in 75ish miles before first bar went away, I hit 82 miles before the bar left the scene, and not too bad as I had 2 on ramps that are ripe for sudden excelleration and I used them. I think my lower numbers were me playing in lower gears playing with the better powerband. This tank I rode like most commutes, so eco should be OK afterall, I just need to brace my right wrist ;D
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What did you say? I can blow it up for about $400? lol I'll pass and keep the extended warranty. :)
Nahhh... A mild shot of nitrous won't cause any harm. :) By mild I mean 10hp or less per cylinder. You could run a .032 or .035 Jet on a dry system... adjust the map via the PCV/PC3 and only run it wide open above 7K rpm and you'd be just fine. Did it for a while on my ZX10... it just got old refilling the small (hidden) bottle, and having to deal with bottle temp/psi all the time. But man, you could run a giant bottle (or two!) in the saddlebags AND use a bottle warmer........... tempting. ;D
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Quick note, commuting has always resulted in 75ish miles before first bar went away, I hit 82 miles before the bar left the scene, and not too bad as I had 2 on ramps that are ripe for sudden excelleration and I used them. I think my lower numbers were me playing in lower gears playing with the better powerband. This tank I rode like most commutes, so eco should be OK afterall, I just need to brace my right wrist ;D
How is your map coming along, is the AutoTune still making changes? Any rough spots? By the way did you use the ZX14 injectors or the C14 injectors? A ZX14 guru I know recommended I use the ZX14 injectors as long as they are the ones with the green base – some are green and some have a blue base, not sure of the difference.
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I've accepted 2 changes, although nothing bad, it seems every time I do the instant snap isn't quite as instant at lower RPMs, upper RPMs she just rocks the house. So far the MAP from Fuel Moto seems to be the best for low to mid RPMs. I'll let a dyno guy set me a good baseline and see what he suggests as some good settings for the AT.
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Nahhh... A mild shot of nitrous won't cause any harm. :) By mild I mean 10hp or less per cylinder. You could run a .032 or .035 Jet on a dry system... adjust the map via the PCV/PC3 and only run it wide open above 7K rpm and you'd be just fine. Did it for a while on my ZX10... it just got old refilling the small (hidden) bottle, and having to deal with bottle temp/psi all the time. But man, you could run a giant bottle (or two!) in the saddlebags AND use a bottle warmer........... tempting. ;D
Ok Spaz I'm on my way down from Phx to meetup with you... We can install the Nitrous on my ride and check out the Turbo on yours :) Did you get it back together with those new Forged Pistons?
I would think a base map on the Power Commander then a Nitrous map would be sufficient as long I as didn't forget to switch maps before I hit the Nitrous....
I would love a little boost down the quarter mile... I am scheduling a little meetup at Firebird Raceway in about a month or so to run the Connie. A few friends with Hysbusa's and ZX10's, etc will be also coming out along with the normal run what you brung crowd.
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I've accepted 2 changes, although nothing bad, it seems every time I do the instant snap isn't quite as instant at lower RPMs, upper RPMs she just rocks the house. So far the MAP from Fuel Moto seems to be the best for low to mid RPMs. I'll let a dyno guy set me a good baseline and see what he suggests as some good settings for the AT.
What AFR are you running? I had the standard 13.2 then in the upper it would do 12.9 but I was going through gas faster then a Dodge V10 Dually truck with two plugged catalytic converters :(
I adjusted the mid range cruising to 13.4, 13.6 and 13.8 and I saw a huge jump in fuel economy (45-50 mpg average on freeway doing 75 mph and 38 - 42 combined city/highway) while performance still seems really really good. I would really like to know though what the optimal AFR is for fuel economy and if one can use one map with those values for cruising rpm's/throttle openings, and then aggressive AFR's for the higher RPM's/throttle openings to obtain the ultimate performance and economy map all in one instead of switching between two different maps.
This is what my mechanic suggested but he could not tell me the best safe AFR's for fuel economy...
-Kirk
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That is how the Fuel Moto maps are, economy with less than 20% throttle and power map after 20% throttle. My Roadliner is also set up the same way, works great.
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Nitrous is a pain in the ass on a bike. It would be much easier on the C14 than most bikes, but it's hardly worth the trouble once the initial grin factor wears off. The grin factor from the turbo never goes away. Plus nirtous won't lower your ET at the strip unless you get it on out of the hole. If you wait 'till second gear to spray you'll see almost no drop in ET; you'll just see a boost in MPH. It's really frustrating to run nitrous on a stock wheelbase/stock suspension bike. You'd need more than stock pistons could handle to be faster than a liter bike anyway....... not much call for it unless you just like the way it looks. But I'll install a set-up for anyone if they want to try it. :)
...and I had some pretty shitty luck after my piston swap. I'm not going to call out anybody yet, but I had a partial fuel pump/injector failure that caused some damage while I was out picking on Zx-10Rs. In the middle of fixing that I got laid off, so I just put it all back to stock so I would have something to ride around 'till I get a job again (can't pay rent AND do R&D with no job). In hindsight, stock injectors on a turbo C14 are questionable at best, and you need a -good- fuel pump to support high flow at high pressures...... I won't be trusting anyone's work but my own from now on when it comes to fuel systems. [/rant] Expensive lesson to learn (cost was 2 very nice new forged pistons), but at least I still had good stock ones and an extra header to put it back together.
Back on topic: cruising AFR's can be in the 14's with no issue. Mid to low14's will yield good mileage and usually leave you with enough room to keep it smooth. Anything higher than 14's and you get into diminishing returns with economy... and the driveability starts getting ugly. WOT AFR's for N/A should be in the 12.9-13.2 range for starters. I don't believe in a "economy map" AND a "performance map": If you spend the time tuning you can have both. It only needs to be richer than normal at 75% or so more throttle for performance, and it can be much leaner elsewhere so long as your driveability is acceptable (no lean stumbles or backfires, good on/off throttle transitions). You don't gain a lot making it fat at partial throttles, and most importantly, you're not trying to go fast using partial throttle, right? :) For reference, I ran my zx10 with a good base map at WOT (the stock PC3 map was really close), and tuned just the 100% throttle column to 13.0. Worked well. Then for the nitrous we tuned just the 100% column above 9K rpm (my spray point... it would be lower on a C14 obviously) for 12.5 , and spraying it went back up to a flat 13.0 all the way across. Made +38hp on a .032 dry system jet (and about 5-7 more MPH at the strip back-to-back). The really interesting part? The bike ran better consistently OFF the bottle on the rich nitrous map than it did on the flat 13.0 map (about .7-1.5 mph). Food for thought. :)
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Great explanation Spaz, makes sense to me.
So, fuel economy wise, I have absolutley no loss in economy cruising or commuting, last fill up was at 220 miles and that just .5 miles after the low warning light came on. Half was 2up through the Hood Canal route, other half was commute. Gotta love rolling parking lots >:( I am going to up the accellerator pump, after the last trim acceptance I have an ever so slight stumble off throttle if I am getting on it. Not there if I am smooth, but rapid twist brings it on.
For the record, those who can't afford the turbo upgrade I see no reason why they wouldn't do this relatively frugal upgrade, it is almost as nice of an upgrade as pulling the flies and a PCIII was. TBs can be had fairly cheap and since most who have pulled the flies have the PCV, all you need is time and the AT or a dyno tune and you too can be ripping on slow black bikes ;D
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Thanks Spaz that s exactly the kind of info I was looking for... What is this accelerator pump feature I'm hearing about? Is this only on PC3 or on PCV as well?
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The Accelerator Pump feature (AP for short) attempts to emulate the function of an accelerator pump on a carburetor. Being that carbs require airflow to meter fuel, they can become momentarily lean when you make big throttle openings. The accelerator pump is a mechanical device that meters fuel directly when the the throttle is opening without regard to airflow through the carb. The AP function on the PC3/PCV (I don't even remember if the PCV has it, actually) allows you to deliver fuel based solely rapid TPS changes for a certain amount of engine cycles. The idea is that you can try to "smooth" out off/on throttle lean spots (snatch or hesitation) by adjusting it. I've never had a lot of luck with it myself, and it usually impacts fuel economy noticeably when in use.