Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: punkynlew1 on December 06, 2011, 05:26:40 PM
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Hi, everyone: Thought y'all might be interested to know Fretka's and Spaz's reports gave me the itch for some turbo boost. I just ordered a kit from Chris Jones Performance Cycles in Chiefland, FL. I did some homework/research, was impressed by Chris's championship credentials, his experience with Kawasaki's 1400cc motors and chose him for the job. He will use a Garrett GT2860 as the heart of the kit and says it is capable of producing 260-270 hp, although he said mine would probably be tuned to safely operate up to 240-250 hp at 5-7 psi boost. I told him my goal was to be stealthy and operate my bike as a standard C14 until I choose to twist the throttle for boost that would be capable of blowing off a new stock 2012 ZX14R, which is billed as the fastest production bike on the planet. Chris will install the complete kit including header, gauges, better valve/clutch springs, head gasket, Bosch fuel pump, Tial wastegate/blowoff, Velocity stacks, cam chain tensioner, dyno tune/map my PCIII usb and route the exhaust to one or maybe both of my SS shorty slash cut GP cans on the right side for about $6300 turnkey ready to ride. Who knows, maybe I'll be able to pass 200 mph too. Call it foolish or something checked off my bucket list.
I checked off riding a KLR650 solo to the ends of the world with my little buddy Punky, a Yorkie dog, 10 years ago. Met a lovely senorita in Lima, Peru and Punky, el magneto de chicas (the chick magnet), did his magic and we married. She finished the ride to Ushuaia, Tierra del Fuego and Rio de Janeiro in South America with Punky and I and we flew to Miami. At the age of 74, I reckon I feel like doing what I damn well please before it's too late....
I thought of buying a new 2012 ZX14R and decided to do this instead. I will have a highly versatile machine that is capable of shocking most Busa's and ZX-14's as well as comfortably hauling me, my luggage, a passenger and a camping trailer, when I want to. Later amigos, Lew
See Punky n Lew's Americas Motopaseo website and pix
www.angelfire.com/mo/motormark/Punky_n_Lew.html (http://www.angelfire.com/mo/motormark/Punky_n_Lew.html)
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That sounds good Lew and best of luck with the rig. Tell us that you are not going to try to set a C-14 speed record with Punky riding on the tank though.... :o
Please post a photo or two when the project is done.
Brian
Hi, everyone: Thought y'all might be interested to know Fretka's and Spaz's reports gave me the itch for some turbo boost. I just ordered a kit from Chris Jones Performance Cycles in Chiefland, FL.
<snip>
I thought of buying a new 2012 ZX14R and decided to do this instead. I will have a highly versatile machine that is capable of shocking most Busa's and ZX-14's as well as comfortably hauling me, my luggage, a passenger and a camping trailer, when I want to. Later amigos, Lew
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Punkynlew I hope I am half the man you are at your age :). Awesome setup. I was in Trujillo in June via Lima. Peruvian women are gorgeous! I am sure you are a lucky man - not just because of your monster Connie. Please keep us updated once you get the bike back. I will be very interested to hear how you like it.
You are my new idol.
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Welcome to the forum. We need more like you and Punky. Kirby, our only other mascot is a bit dry.
I'd take that Connie to the Salt Flats and see what she'll do!
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That sounds good Lew and best of luck with the rig. Tell us that you are not going to try to set a C-14 speed record with Punky riding on the tank though.... :o
Please post a photo or two when the project is done.
Brian
BDF: Punky rarely rides anymore. He is now 17 years of age. We have a 1 1/2 years Yorkie puppy, though. He's only been on the bike twice for short rides around town.
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Pics of Punky? ...what can I say, I like dogs.
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Pics of Punky? ...what can I say, I like dogs.
gpink: See our website and pix now listed at the end of my OP
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Welcome to the forum. I can't wait to hear how the bike turns out.
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I'm not worthy, well not yet anyway. Any links to this power enhancing guru?
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I'm not worthy, well not yet anyway. Any links to this power enhancing guru?
Son: Chris Jones at <www.jonesperformancecycle.com> his email: chrisjones352@bellsouth.net
shop phone: (352) 490-8068 in Chiefland, FL
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gpink: See our website and pix now listed at the end of my OP
My computer didn't like that link... ???
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I can't wait to see the progress on your build. I hope to add a turbo to my bike after the warranty is expired.
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My computer didn't like that link... ???
ZG: Sorry, I corrected the link. It needed a .html instead of a /html at the end
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Somehow I think that installing a turbocharger on your bike will void your factory warranty (if you have any left).
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My computer didn't like that link... ???
This is the only pic I could find from any of the links (but it is a great one):
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/9092801/homepage/name/homepage.jpg?type=sn (http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/9092801/homepage/name/homepage.jpg?type=sn)
I doubt I could get either of my cats to ride with me... although I did see a show on TV about a motorcycle cat. http://www.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2009/12/MotorcycleCat.JPG (http://www.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2009/12/MotorcycleCat.JPG)
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Son: Chris Jones at <www.jonesperformancecycle.com> his email: chrisjones352@bellsouth.net
shop phone: (352) 490-8068 in Chiefland, FL
Thanks Lew, I'll be following as things progress, I'll be talking to him about a DIY PnP kit, stealth mode of course.
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Thanks Lew, I'll be following as things progress, I'll be talking to him about a DIY PnP kit, stealth mode of course.
When you are back in shape Chet, you know you deserve this! You've had your nose pressed against the glass for a long time now!
Tempus fugit. ;)
Welcome to the forum Lew! In reading your parts list you will have a quality build with a little engine safety margin built-in as well. The man seems to know his stuff. The rather smallish turbo will give you boost down low in the rpm range, probably around 3500 rpm. This combo makes for a very usable (but not necessarily docile) engine.
Anything above 8 pounds boost is total overkill and can't be used on the street.
BTW... I'd suggest some velcro for your dog!
Any questions of my experience feel free to call 7*6*0 6*3*0. 0*8*9*9
Fretka
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When you are back in shape Chet, you know you deserve this! You've had your nose pressed against the glass for a long time now!
Tempus fugit. ;)
Welcome to the forum Lew! In reading your parts list you will have a quality build with a little engine safety margin built-in as well. The man seems to know his stuff. The rather smallish turbo will give you boost down low in the rpm range, probably around 3500 rpm. This combo makes for a very usable (but not necessarily docile) engine.
Anything above 8 pounds boost is total overkill and can't be used on the street.
BTW... I'd suggest some velcro for your dog!
Any questions of my experience feel free to call 7*6*0 6*3*0. 0*8*9*9
Fretka
Fretka: Chris Jones and I believe the turbo size will do what I want it to do. I don't plan on needing over 300 hp or making frequent trips to the dragstrip. It's meant to be a stage 1 boost powered streetbike and provide approximately 100 extra ponies of power. Thanks for your offer to help and putting the turbo idea in my mind in the first place. I'll keep your offer in mind. Lew
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This is the only pic I could find from any of the links (but it is a great one):
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/9092801/homepage/name/homepage.jpg?type=sn (http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/9092801/homepage/name/homepage.jpg?type=sn)
I doubt I could get either of my cats to ride with me... although I did see a show on TV about a motorcycle cat. http://www.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2009/12/MotorcycleCat.JPG (http://www.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2009/12/MotorcycleCat.JPG)
Ditto on the cat. My tabby is quite the bench racer though! He's always got to be right there sitting on the connie seat while I polish or fiddle with something on it.
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Love yer story Lew. I'll be watching for Your results of the turbo.
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Ditto on the cat. My tabby is quite the bench racer though! He's always got to be right there sitting on the connie seat while I polish or fiddle with something on it.
Tex and those having trouble finding pix: The pic that was found and posted is my favorite and was taken by a newspaper photographer. Punky was in newspapers, magazines and on TV on both sides of the equator including West Palm Beach, FL; Moab, UT (where Punky was DOA at the animal hospital after being hit by a car and brought back from the grasp of the Grim Reaper with CPR); Fairbanks, AK (where Punky was attacked by a 135 lb. Alaskan Malamute and nearly killed again); Ushuaia, Tierra del Fuego. Punky's chauffer was usually in the pix right next to him. I haven't looked at the website in a while, but there should be a link to photos that takes you to one of our yahoogroups sites. You then have to join the group in order to activate the photo link on the left of the screen. There are some 600 pix, not all with Punky of course. You can learn of our adventures from the link to the website in my OP or simply google Punky and Lew. Lew
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When you are back in shape Chet, you know you deserve this! You've had your nose pressed against the glass for a long time now!
Tempus fugit. ;)
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Fretka
I do have some secret funds laying around, I will wait to see how stealth this install is. Guess I need to empty a bed and go clean off the shovel, several cans later I should have the change all ready to go.
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Put a black hose on it and it's purty stealthy!
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Put a black hose on it and it's purty stealthy! [pic]
Wow- that is impressive! Hard to believe they can fit everything right there like that!
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Put a black hose on it and it's purty stealthy!
Uh, yep, bbbbbbbbbbbbbbblack hhhhhhhhhhoooooose for sure. Sssssssssshhhhhhhhaaaaakkkking jjjjjust tttthinking aaaaaabout iiiiiiit. Damn,, that is stealthy. After feeling the boost build in the TDI I am so much more into this safety/economy related farkle I can hardly wait.
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Uh, yep, bbbbbbbbbbbbbbblack hhhhhhhhhhoooooose for sure. Sssssssssshhhhhhhhaaaaakkkking jjjjjust tttthinking aaaaaabout iiiiiiit. Damn,, that is stealthy. After feeling the boost build in the TDI I am so much more into this safety/economy HORSEPOWER related farkle I can hardly wait.
There fixed it for ya! You know you won't stay out of the boost enough to get good economy. ;D
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Awesome pic. Punky looks like he's havin a ball.
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Hi, everyone: Thought y'all might be interested to know Fretka's and Spaz's reports gave me the itch for some turbo boost. I just ordered a kit from Chris Jones Performance Cycles in Chiefland, FL. I did some homework/research, was impressed by Chris's championship credentials, his experience with Kawasaki's 1400cc motors and chose him for the job. He will use a Garrett GT2860 as the heart of the kit and says it is capable of producing 260-270 hp, although he said mine would probably be tuned to safely operate up to 240-250 hp at 5-7 psi boost. I told him my goal was to be stealthy and operate my bike as a standard C14 until I choose to twist the throttle for boost that would be capable of blowing off a new stock 2012 ZX14R, which is billed as the fastest production bike on the planet. Chris will install the complete kit including header, gauges, better valve/clutch springs, head gasket, Bosch fuel pump, Tial wastegate/blowoff, Velocity stacks, cam chain tensioner, dyno tune/map my PCIII usb and route the exhaust to one or maybe both of my SS shorty slash cut GP cans on the right side for about $6300 turnkey ready to ride. Who knows, maybe I'll be able to pass 200 mph too. Call it foolish or something checked off my bucket list.
I checked off riding a KLR650 solo to the ends of the world with my little buddy Punky, a Yorkie dog, 10 years ago. Met a lovely senorita in Lima, Peru and Punky, el magneto de chicas (the chick magnet), did his magic and we married. She finished the ride to Ushuaia, Tierra del Fuego and Rio de Janeiro in South America with Punky and I and we flew to Miami. At the age of 74, I reckon I feel like doing what I damn well please before it's too late....
I thought of buying a new 2012 ZX14R and decided to do this instead. I will have a highly versatile machine that is capable of shocking most Busa's and ZX-14's as well as comfortably hauling me, my luggage, a passenger and a camping trailer, when I want to. Later amigos, Lew
See Punky n Lew's Americas Motopaseo website and pix
www.angelfire.com/mo/motormark/Punky_n_Lew.html (http://www.angelfire.com/mo/motormark/Punky_n_Lew.html)
does he sell a kit for diy types?
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does he sell a kit for diy types?
oldnslo: Yes, the base stage 1 street kit is $5k, same as for the ZX14. I don't think that includes the valve/clutch upgraded springs and headgasket that Chris recommends and maybe the cam chain tensioner or special exhaust (standard exits right front lower fairing). Anything other than standard exhaust (like dual Muzzy for instance) is strictly aesthetic and doesn't improve performance. I'm getting all that Chris recommends, exhaust and turnkey installed for $6100-$6300. It isn't cheap, but it's done by a pro and I don't have to mess with anything and all the trial and error DIY installation problems. Some have tried and blown their engines on ZX14's. Fretka and SpazOnaConcours have so far succeeded with their DIY C14 turbo projects. Maybe you can too? <www.jonesperformancecycle.com> Lew
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The initial build took me about 30 hours and countless more trying out different sub-system mods.
Knowing what I know now, it would be a really straight-forward process with the time factor much less. Say around a very busy weekend or so!
The map making stage really took the longest but now we have PC maps for free!
One of the overlooked requirements of all this stuff is that of now needing a bit more sporting tire compounds. Angels will work but can (and will) easily spin-up if leaned over and boosted. They will even spin up crossing the paint lines under max boost at passing speeds.
Do remember though that the bike will only get squirrely if you ask it to, sane riding gives you a sane and easy to ride bike. The bad old days of turbos trying to kill their riders are over when it comes to street applications.
The overriding feeling you get is absolute astonishment at how hard these bikes pull............ and then keep pulling...
etc.
Most folks back-off way before the potential is realized. (and to be honest, knowing whatever is behind you, be it a crotch-rocket or Bugatti Veyron, is completely toast as you watch them get smaller in the mirror riding your "touring bike with bags and all". :) :D ;D :o ::) :-X
Fretka under pressure
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I would love to see a head to head race against a Veyron. ;D
To give the C14 a chance I would guess you would need to start from a 20 mph roll-on.
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http://www.zeroto60times.com/Bugatti-0-60-mph-Times.html (http://www.zeroto60times.com/Bugatti-0-60-mph-Times.html)
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Angels will work but can (and will) easily spin-up if leaned over and boosted. They will even spin up crossing the paint lines under max boost at passing speeds. Do remember though that the bike will only get squirrely if you ask it to, sane riding gives you a sane and easy to ride bike. The bad old days of turbos trying to kill their riders are over when it comes to street applications.
I wouldn't think that would be that much of an issue with the traction control, 2010-2012...
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I would love to see a head to head race against a Veyron. ;D
To give the C14 a chance I would guess you would need to start from a 20 mph roll-on.
The Veyron has a 258 mph top speed. What that tells you is that the higher the speed, the less chance a motorcycle has.
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The Veyron has a 258 mph top speed. What that tells you is that the higher the speed, the less chance a motorcycle has.
Understood, my reason for a rolling start would be to keep the Veyron from getting the jump out of the hole since it is AWD. I can't imagine launching a 250+ hp motorcycle and trying to keep the front end down. There would have to be some serious clutch and throttle modulation whereas the Veyron driver just mashes the gas and poof....... 2.5 seconds to 60.
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there was that guy here with a turboed C14 who posted a 1,7 sec time to the 60 mph. Which I'm sure will get you a neat start over the Veyron. And for about 1% of the price...
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Looks like you'll have to go with forged 9.5 cr pistons as both my bike and one other have had pistons with mechanical (not pre-ignition) crown failures.
Pop goes the weasel (piston). :'(
fretka
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Hey, Fretka: Is Spaz's C14 the other with piston crown failure? Are both failures with OEM C14 pistons and head gaskets using standard stage 1 turbo kits with max 8psi boost, dyno tuning by an expert familiar with Kawi 1400cc/turbo tuning and making no more than 260hp? Approximately how many miles before piston failure occurred? Did the piston failure occurr next to the intake valve? Did it damage the rings in the same place and did it occurr in all 4 cylinders? This will be good info to pass to my installer, Chris Jones, before he does the installation. Thanks a bunch for the heads-up about this problem, amigo. Lew
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The C-14 uses a CAST piston as opposed to the ZX which is FORGED.
Therein lies the whole story, essentially the cast piston does not have the inherent mechanical stress capabilities that are necessary due to dynamic cylinder pressures.
The problem with the many tuners offering their services is that they have good knowledge of ZX-14 motors but there are differences between the two motors. I have found (and this is my opinion only) that many of these tuners/builders will tell you that they are the last word and tend to talk... but not listen. Ego and marketing tend to get in the way.
These folks are probably good tuners but they clearly don't know all they need to, and don't seem to be willing to listen or take the time to research the differences. This is common behavior in this buisness.
I have some other thoughts that might be helpful...... gimmee a call before you start this project.
7-6-0 6-3-0 08**99 P.s.t.
Bruce/Fretka
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OUCH!! I'm taking it things went south in a hurry? A big thank you, and not in jest. It's folks like you that make things so much easier for guys like me. I'm starting to think a turbo may never find it's way onto my '08. :'( Should we start a Fretka benevolent bike fund? The amount of money and heartache saved is a bunch, least we could do is help contribute, wait, we never got the thrill of boost, so you're on yer own ;)
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Hey Chet, all you need is new [forged] pistons to run a turbo kit. Of course while you're at it you should replace the rods, knife edge the crank, port and polish the head and........................... ;D
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I'm starting to think a turbo may never find it's way onto my [...]
There is no rule saying a turbo/supercharger has to run at high pressure. Sure, some people want to try and more than DOUBLE their power, but many others would be more than happy with a 70% increase, or maybe 50% (both are still HUGE gains). The higher the pressure, the most likely there will be damage. Run at 5 or 6 psi instead of 8-11 psi and perhaps the problems disappear.... The major issue is that there is no way to know the limits without people having failures first :(
(I do have some experience, I added an aftermarket Jackson Racing supercharger on my second car).
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The C-14 uses a CAST piston as opposed to the ZX which is FORGED.
Therein lies the whole story, essentially the cast piston does not have the inherent mechanical stress capabilities that are necessary due to dynamic cylinder pressures.
Fretka: After talking with you yesterday, I consulted with Chris Jones today. Chris offered me a JE turbo forged 9.5 static CR piston kit at his cost and no additional labor charge. So, that's what we agreed on. Thanks for your info and advice. Later, amigo. Lew
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Fretka: After talking with you yesterday, I consulted with Chris Jones today. Chris offered me a JE turbo forged 9.5 static CR piston kit at his cost and no additional labor charge. So, that's what we agreed on. Thanks for your info and advice. Later, amigo. Lew
So will you run more boost or will you stick with the 7-8 psi? Very interested in the progress.........
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So will you run more boost or will you stick with the 7-8 psi? Very interested in the progress.........
I will stay under 9 psi. Now, just not sure yet if I'm going with JE or Wossner forged 10.5 CR pistons custom made for the C14. Will make final decision in next 2 days. Lew
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I will stay under 9 psi. Now, just not sure yet if I'm going with JE or Wossner forged 10.5 CR pistons custom made for the C14. Will make final decision in next 2 days. Lew
Any thoughts on a coating for the skirts (i.e. Swaintech) or ceramic coating for the entire piston?
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Any thoughts on a coating for the skirts (i.e. Swaintech) or ceramic coating for the entire piston?
[/quote
Jeremy: I'm not an expert by any stretch. From looking at the Swaintech website, I would like to do the TBC on the piston domes and PC-9 on the skirts for $38 ea. That is, if I can get the turbo pistons cheap enough. Agua mist cooling is another thing of interest, since there is little room for an air-air intercooler, but it all costs money. One has to determine how far one is willing to go based on the intended use and the depth of his pockets. IMO, if one stays with stage 1, less than 9 psi boost and accepts a max of 260 hp, one really doesn't need to go all out as one would, if they were intending to up the boost and go for something like 400 hp. Others on the forum are more knowledgeable than I on the subject. Later, amigo. Lew
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If I had the motor down this far I would make changes to the camshafts also. Are the heads and the valves the same on the zx14? If thats the case it would be easy to get to zx14hp NA. Then you would be way ahead turboed with lower boost levels.
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The Connie uses an advanced variable timing cam system (good enough that most folks would want to keep it). This system gives the Connie much more bottom/midrange power at some expense to max, top-end power. The cam-train in the ZX is old style fixed timing and would not interchange.
Everyone might keep in mind that some big H.P. number looks good in magazines but is mostly unusable. The beauty of a turbo'ed Connie is that you get incredible midrange power without having to spin the motor mercilessly. TORQUE. In adding ZX parts to try to get ZX power, all you'll likely get is to move the powerband up higher in the rev range and loose that great drivability that we all like.
Turbo sizing will dictate where and at what rpm the power comes on, big turbo= big hp at high rpm's, smaller turbo= boost at lower rpm's. IMHO smaller is better for real world riding.
Bigger valves, intake flow matching and most traditional hot rod methods don't apply to turbos because the intake charge is stuffed into the combustion chamber instead of the piston pulling the charge in. More power? No need to do all the expensive and time consuming modifications necessary for a naturally aspirated engine, just turn the boost up a little (to a point of course).
Fretka
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That sounds good if it were true, but the facts are a zx14 make more low end torque than the c14. A more efficient intake and Exhaust profile camshaft will yield higher hp with less boost. Boost is not necessarily an increase in hp. Camshaft profile can dictate boost. In other words a camshaft change may indicate a decrease in boost yet an increase of hp. My question is do a zx14 and a Concours use the same head and valve sizes.
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That sounds good if it were true, but the facts are a zx14 make more low end torque than the c14. A more efficient intake and Exhaust profile camshaft will yield higher hp with less boost. Boost is not necessarily an increase in hp. Camshaft profile can dictate boost. In other words a camshaft change may indicate a decrease in boost yet an increase of hp. My question is do a zx14 and a Concours use the same head and valve sizes.
...Not the same head exactly, but uses the same valves & springs. The camshafts are different profiles, but you could put any exhaust cam that you want in there as there is no VVT set-up on it. With that said, though, I'm beginning to think that you can bolt the VVT doo-dad on to a standard ZX-14 cam... I've had a good look at how it's set-up and I'm pretty sure it's possible. If you want to run more cam, though, you need to run more compression. If you want to run more cam on the turbo bike, you're going to make it more peaky and raise the boost threshold if you don't raise the static compression. In plain english, you're making the bike un-streetable in that case. Forged pistons are a must going either route. But the big thing is the chassis: It can barely cope with the amount of power the turbo C14 makes on stock cams. The trade-offs you make in drive-ability/reliability/cost for cams are mostly unrealized because you really can't explore the extra power on the C14 platform... not as a daily driver anyway. Call me crazy(er), but I'd rather have 220hp I can use at will (mostly), than an expensive and finicky 270 that I can only use when the conditions are just perfect.
PS: If the Connie had the full point and a half of extra compression that the ZX14 has and that extra valve lift, I'm pretty certain it would clobber it all over the torque curve. The bigger TB's would help a bit too. :)
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Any thoughts on a coating for the skirts (i.e. Swaintech) or ceramic coating for the entire piston?
...after hearing about the cast pistons in our bike (!!), I'm ordering a set of forged slugs ASAP. 3 days ago, actually. I assumed that since the ZX14 ran forged pistons that the connie would have them as well. Ooops.
FYI, Wossner Pistons coat their piston skirts as a matter of habit. :)
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My point in the original post was that as long as its apart I would look into restoring the torque lost during the detuning for the c14. Instead of having to say running 8lbs of boost to achieve a certain hp, 6lbs may yield the same hp and be less prone to detonation on pump fuel. I must say I am shocked and disapointed that Kaw decided to use cast pistons. A turbo was on my to do list this winter until I heard of the piston issue, not sure I want to get into replacing the pistons at this time.
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I know what you were saying. :) I'm just trying to point out that the only way you'll get that torque back is through more cam and compression.. and your margin for error when tuning it on boost goes down when you do that. It's just not worth doing if you turbocharge at this power level. Now, having a big, hairy NA ZX14 spec motor in the C14 would be pretty awesome too. :)
The bike makes just about as much low end torque as the chassis can handle anyway... you get it to make much more under 5K rpm and it gets really difficult to ride. :)
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The problem is I would like to be able to ride it on the rear wheel in 2nd and 3rd.
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Right? :)
In all seriousness though, it's stable in second gear, and you'd need way more horsepower than I'm making to get it to hike the front in 3rd. Remember she's a loooong, heavy bike.
1st is a pogo stick though.
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.....any updates on your kit? :)
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I can't wait to see this...pure lust. Especially with me considering relocating back home.
ZG, btw I am back after getting remarried a few months ago. Best part is, wife would love this mod ;)))
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I can't wait to see this...pure lust. Especially with me considering relocating back home.
ZG, btw I am back after getting remarried a few months ago. Best part is, wife would love this mod ;) ))
Nice, congrats bro and welcome back!
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.....any updates on your kit? :)
Hey, Spaz: Chris Jones and I met halfway between my location and his (total distance about 325 mi.) and he loaded my bike on his truck to take to his shop in Chiefland, FL. Chris expects to take about 3 weeks to complete the GT2860R turbo kit and JE 9.5 CR forged turbo piston kit (Chris's own design) install. It will require splitting the cases and complete engine teardown. There will be no need for a turbo oil scavenger pump (small turbo mounts high allowing gravity oil outflow) or adjustable rising rate fuel regulator. Chris will use 1:1 fuel and boost spring regulated to 7 or 8 psi max. I will use 93 octane pump gas normally. When trying to break the 200 mph barrier, I will use C16 race fuel with the same tune/map.
I will have the bike back in time to tow my Leesure Lite Excel camping trailer to Daytona Bike Week and stay at Beemerville in Holiday Rec. Park on I95 north of Daytona. Hope all is well getting your Connie back on the road. Later, amigo. Lew
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Cool news. You can get the Disco Potato high enough to drain back on its own... i ran the pump as insurance. At 8 PSI on the stock compression ratio you'll be able to crack 200mph with the bags off: no need for fancy fuel. You will need to run a bit more boost because of your lower static CR to get there, though: probably around 10-11 PSI or so (no big deal with the lower CR JE pistons). Did you get bigger injectors as well? I've noticed that mine are at ~80-85% duty cycle @75PSI when at peak boost/rpm: just about at the limit. If you plan on making any more power than I am you might want to look into getting bigger injectors... especially running less fuel pressure like you are.
.......and I'll have to pick on you a bit if you trailer a Concours to a bike event. ;)
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Cool news. You can get the Disco Potato high enough to drain back on its own... i ran the pump as insurance. At 8 PSI on the stock compression ratio you'll be able to crack 200mph with the bags off: no need for fancy fuel. You will need to run a bit more boost because of your lower static CR to get there, though: probably around 10-11 PSI or so (no big deal with the lower CR JE pistons). Did you get bigger injectors as well? I've noticed that mine are at ~80-85% duty cycle @75PSI when at peak boost/rpm: just about at the limit. If you plan on making any more power than I am you might want to look into getting bigger injectors... especially running less fuel pressure like you are.
.......and I'll have to pick on you a bit if you trailer a Concours to a bike event. ;)
I am pretty sure he is going to pull a trailer with the Concours not trailer the Concours.... (http://www.litetentcamper.com/trailer.htm (http://www.litetentcamper.com/trailer.htm))
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Cool news. You can get the Disco Potato high enough to drain back on its own... i ran the pump as insurance. At 8 PSI on the stock compression ratio you'll be able to crack 200mph with the bags off: no need for fancy fuel. You will need to run a bit more boost because of your lower static CR to get there, though: probably around 10-11 PSI or so (no big deal with the lower CR JE pistons). Did you get bigger injectors as well? I've noticed that mine are at ~80-85% duty cycle @75PSI when at peak boost/rpm: just about at the limit. If you plan on making any more power than I am you might want to look into getting bigger injectors... especially running less fuel pressure like you are.
.......and I'll have to pick on you a bit if you trailer a Concours to a bike event. ;)
I didn't ask Chris about the injectors, but completely trust him to do what he knows best to make my bike safely and dependably do what I expect from it. The bike will be trailering a pop-up camper, not being trailered, to Daytona Bike Week. I'm sure Chris will give me his advice and final operating instructions, when I get the bike. I know he cautions against too much power for a street bike. If one intends to drag race at the strip a lot, then he/she would/could use more power. Lew
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I am pretty sure he is going to pull a trailer with the Concours not trailer the Concours.... (http://www.litetentcamper.com/trailer.htm (http://www.litetentcamper.com/trailer.htm))
THAT is freakin' awesome. I withdraw my statement, and offer to pack trailer bearings for all my friends as penance.
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I didn't ask Chris about the injectors, but completely trust him to do what he knows best to make my bike safely and dependably do what I expect from it. The bike will be trailering a pop-up camper, not being trailered, to Daytona Bike Week. I'm sure Chris will give me his advice and final operating instructions, when I get the bike. I know he cautions against too much power for a street bike. If one intends to drag race at the strip a lot, then he/she would/could use more power. Lew
Chris does seem like a pretty sharp fellow... I'm certain he'll do ya' fine. :D I'd like to get our bikes in the same zip code at some point and see what the difference in compression works out to between the bikes. We're both running the same turbo on the same bike on pump gas.... color me curious. ;D
And that trailer looks neat. I've always wanted to trailer a track bike with the Concours............ wonder if I could make that work somehow. :stirpot:
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And that trailer looks neat. I've always wanted to trailer a track bike with the Concours............ wonder if I could make that work somehow. :stirpot:
I would pay to see that! ;D
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I didn't ask Chris about the injectors, but completely trust him to do what he knows best to make my bike safely and dependably do what I expect from it. The bike will be trailering a pop-up camper, not being trailered, to Daytona Bike Week. I'm sure Chris will give me his advice and final operating instructions, when I get the bike. I know he cautions against too much power for a street bike. If one intends to drag race at the strip a lot, then he/she would/could use more power. Lew
Lew, any update on the instalation? I've been anxiously awaiting your update........ :)
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Lew, any update on the instalation? I've been anxiously awaiting your update........ :)
Wild: Chris Jones has my bike and will probably take another 2 weeks or so to complete the installation. I am currently exploring the idea of adding a quick shifter and, lacking room for an intercooler, a water/methanol injection cooling system that could add another 20% hp and 25% torque as well as cool/clean the combustion chamber. Trying to determine if I can safely enjoy normal street riding and have up to 300 hp available at the twist of the wrist at the drag strip. Don't want to spin/waste too much rubber or wheelie too much (could strap the front end down at the track). Looking at Aquamist, Coolingmist and AEM water/methanol injection systems and several shifters. Aquamist looks good except it's expensive, because it's European. I'm leaning in the direction of Digital Delay's Elite RPM Switch that allows setting rpm's for each clutchless full throttle gear shift. Chris intends to use the OEM fuel injectors. Later, amigo. Lew
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Righteousness. :) I got my pistons in a few days ago and will swap them in when time allows. (pics soon, hehe).
I have a DJ quickshifter on mine... they are pretty handy. I will say that the Connie doesn't respond as well to the quickshifter as the supersport bikes I've ridden with one...... but it's better than nothing. Water meth is awesome if you can afford it, but be careful with power output. :) If you make much more than what the set-up would make at 8psi (like Fretka's and my own), you're going to start breaking things like clutches and possibly final drive parts. And when those things let go, they tend to do so at really, really inconvenient times. Traction will be nearly non-existent at anything less than perfect conditions at more than 240whp in this chassis; I can pretty much say that one for a fact. Lowering will help, but making it hook will just stress the drive line parts that much more. If you're worried about cost (or breaking parts), just stick to 8-10psi... it'll be plenty fun. Promise.
........and you'll need waaaaaaaay bigger injectors than stock to make more than 220-240whp. Five-O motorsports has a good deal on a set for ZX14's that will fit the bill. Good prices, too. :)
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You Turbo guys make me so sick!!! Always talking about 200MPH and 200 plus HP!!! I am so green with envy I have trouble sleeping at night!!!! Spaz I have a Full Muzzy Exhaust on order and a few other things and I am so tempted to just cancel all Farkles and put it towards the turbo system. I already have the PCV and autotune so that cost would not be there but I don't have enough knowledg to do this myself as you did :( I can turn wrenches like no body's business though. Spaz if I had $3,500 to $4,000 would that be enough to buy all the needed parts and fab work needed to put togather a reliable system? Please convince me to cancel all my other farkles and the focus strickly on the Turbo. My biggest fear is getting started and not having the knowledge and experience to finish the job....
I would be tempted to just take my bike down to your Garage Spaz and come down every weekend and work on it with your help and of course pay you for your expertise and time. :)
Damn I want a turbo so bad!!! I looked into the stroker motors for the ZX14 and those are sick but cost is really high and reliabilty is not very good from what I heard so turbo is a better option.
Anyways keep the updates flowing so I can continue my jealous fit and sleepness nights dreaming about a turbo :)
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If you can turn wrenches as well as you say, you can build a set up. I couldn't afford to do it all at once, so I just did it in pieces. The big hurdle is changing the pistons. Wossner now has a perfect drawing for a set of forged Concours pistons with a 10.5 compression ratio that can be had cheaper than anyone else..... so the real expense is getting your motor out, apart, and back together again. Once you've done that, it's all pretty easy.
Lots of companies will sell you a turbo header. David @ Cyclelogic will sell his separate (along with his other kit parts), and I imagine Chris Jones would sell his once he's done. The fellows at Velocity will make a manifold too for around 700 bucks.... You can part together a system without having to touch a welder... save for maybe making a downpipe if you go with an odd turbo. 3500-4000K is WAY more than I spent on making mine, and about that much total after swapping my pistons (if you can take the motor out or swap the pistons yourself this will save a huge chunk of change). It all depends on who you have doing your work, and how much they charge you. Look around at your shops to see how much they would charge to swap pistons. Call up David @ Cyclelogic and see how much he wants for his fuel system and/or turbo-manifold combo. Hell, call up Chris Jones and see how much HE wants if he's willing to sell his stuff. As far as little stuff and tuning? I would be happy to walk you through it or help out.... just bring beer. :)
If you start it, there are enough resources out there to finish.
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Righteousness. :) I got my pistons in a few days ago and will swap them in when time allows. (pics soon, hehe).
I have a DJ quickshifter on mine... they are pretty handy. I will say that the Connie doesn't respond as well to the quickshifter as the supersport bikes I've ridden with one...... but it's better than nothing. Water meth is awesome if you can afford it, but be careful with power output. :) If you make much more than what the set-up would make at 8psi (like Fretka's and my own), you're going to start breaking things like clutches and possibly final drive parts. And when those things let go, they tend to do so at really, really inconvenient times. Traction will be nearly non-existent at anything less than perfect conditions at more than 240whp in this chassis; I can pretty much say that one for a fact. Lowering will help, but making it hook will just stress the drive line parts that much more. If you're worried about cost (or breaking parts), just stick to 8-10psi... it'll be plenty fun. Promise.
........and you'll need waaaaaaaay bigger injectors than stock to make more than 220-240whp. Five-O motorsports has a good deal on a set for ZX14's that will fit the bill. Good prices, too. :)
Spaz: Glad you got your pistons. Hope you get them in soon and back on the road again enjoying more boost. I sent Rickey Gadson a message last night asking if I could do his drag racing school in NJ with my turboed C14, instead of one of his ZX14R's (have the benefit of traction control and anti-wheelie), with the goal of learning to drag race from the best and proving my C14 will go faster than a new ZX14R. Then, I sent Chris Jones a message asking if he is up to prepping my bike for Gadson's school and proving it will go faster than a ZX14R. Maybe a goofy idea, but would really be neat if Gadson did a pass with my C14. Are the drive shaft itself and the u-joints the weakest parts to be concerned about failing under the stress of more power in the rear end drive? If so, wonder how much problem it would be to beef them up? Later, amigo. Lew
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That would be neat, wouldn't it? :)
I worry most about the drive gears and housing on the output side of the tranny. U-joints are pretty tough, especially when the angle is as straight as it is in our bike. After that I worry about the clutch inner hub and basket. I've talked with a fellow that runs the C14 outer basket with a ZX14 inner hub at pretty high power levels... so I'm not as worried about the outer basket as the rest. But if the bevel dive gears next to your left foot gave out under load, it would be a bad day for everyone involved. It's a total unknown, really... I have no idea how over-engineered those parts might be. But the amount of force that those gears exert on the housing and bearings trying to push away from one another is staggering. If the bike was 150lbs lighter I wouldn't be nearly as concerned, or if you weren't trying to get it to hook like a real drag bike. But I fear the combination of the two, I really do.
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That would be neat, wouldn't it? :)
I worry most about the drive gears and housing on the output side of the tranny. U-joints are pretty tough, especially when the angle is as straight as it is in our bike. After that I worry about the clutch inner hub and basket. I've talked with a fellow that runs the C14 outer basket with a ZX14 inner hub at pretty high power levels... so I'm not as worried about the outer basket as the rest. But if the bevel dive gears next to your left foot gave out under load, it would be a bad day for everyone involved. It's a total unknown, really... I have no idea how over-engineered those parts might be. But the amount of force that those gears exert on the housing and bearings trying to push away from one another is staggering. If the bike was 150lbs lighter I wouldn't be nearly as concerned, or if you weren't trying to get it to hook like a real drag bike. But I fear the combination of the two, I really do.
Spaz: Thanks again for your input. I'll discuss the matter with Chris Jones. He has already expressed his concern of my getting too much power. If he says he can't feel confident in the bike's durability at more than normal stage 1 levels and doesn't think he can beef up the areas of concern at a price I'm willing to pay, then I'll give up the idea of pushing for more power. If Chris can do what needs to be done to achieve a durable and more powerful bike than he originally planned, the chance of it being affordable are greater now that he is about to split the cases and have the engine apart anyway. $$$$$$ Later, amigo.
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Spaz: Glad you got your pistons. Hope you get them in soon and back on the road again enjoying more boost. I sent Rickey Gadson a message last night asking if I could do his drag racing school in NJ with my turboed C14, instead of one of his ZX14R's (have the benefit of traction control and anti-wheelie), with the goal of learning to drag race from the best and proving my C14 will go faster than a new ZX14R. Then, I sent Chris Jones a message asking if he is up to prepping my bike for Gadson's school and proving it will go faster than a ZX14R. Maybe a goofy idea, but would really be neat if Gadson did a pass with my C14. Are the drive shaft itself and the u-joints the weakest parts to be concerned about failing under the stress of more power in the rear end drive? If so, wonder how much problem it would be to beef them up? Later, amigo. Lew
Did you hear back from Gadson? That would be awesome if it happens... I would love to hear about it and see some pictures :)
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Wild: Chris Jones still has my bike. Some of the delay is my fault for having Chris do more mods than originally intended. He has installed JE or Carrilllo turbo forged 9.5 CR pistons, larger '07 ZX14 throttle bodies, injectors and velocity stacks, Speedohealer, water/methanol injection, adjustable boost controller, DJ PCIIIusb/Hub, map sensor, piped the exhaust to dual Muzzy CFs, hid the turbo air cleaner up higher and behind the plastic, Pingel elect. shifter w/light set to flash at 10,200 rpm and handlebar shift buttons and a BMC Race Tech rear remanufctured/revalved shock, Soupys rear adjustable lowering links and adjustable side stand, heavier valve and clutch springs and cam chain tensioner in addition to the turbo, wastegate, blowoff valve, SS header. I also have a ultra soft Shinko Stealth 200 wide tire and Catalyst Composite drag step seat. Chris is scheduled to take the bike to Valdosta, GA and put a pro/champion drag racer, John Fernandez, on it to compete in the Street ET class in the Manufacturers Cup Finals Nov. 9-11. Rickey Gadson will be riding his Jones turbo prepared '12 ZX14R in the Real Street Finals. I have medical problems, can't ride myself but will be there and tow the bike home (Spaz won't care for that idea). At least, the bike will have actual live drag racing tickets to show what it can do w/a pro rider instead of just dyno results. I still would like to do Rickey Gadson's drag racing school, when I am able. I am scheduled for more steroid injections in my lumbar spine and sacroilliac, which is causing me severe hip pains/sciatica. Sometimes I can barely walk with a severe limp. Hope I get better before I get worse. At my age there are no guarantees but I'm not through with my bucket list yet. I'm very gratified to be one who doesn't follow the herd. I like pushing the envelope, thinking outside the box and doing things different than most others. I lived on and cruised a trimaran sailboat for 5 years including out to Hawaii. Most sailors I met thought I was crazy for having a trimaran instead of the traditional ballasted keel single hull sailboat. They said, "The damned thing will capsize and when it does it will stay that way." I said, "At least its faster and more comfortable (doesn't heel over much) and doesn't sink when holed." One guy gave me a hatchet to chop my way out, when it went upside down. Rode to the bottom of South America even though many said, "You must be crazy. You'll be robbed, killed, bike stollen, diseased, dog impounded, jailed, stranded" and endless reasons why most folks won't do such a thing. There were a few, but not many, who were envious of the adventure. Many were dumbfounded, when we (my Yorkie, Punky, and a senorita/wife from Peru) returned in one piece with tons of foreign stickers on the panniers and tail box. How many of you have lived on a 3rd world country's remote beach on the Tropic of Cancer in front of the only extensive live coral reef on the west coast of N. America, rode my bike exploring back dirt roads, fished, snorkeled and got drunk at will, usually at 5 everyday. I voted today. Hope y'all do too. Later, amigo. Lew
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Lew, how's Punky doing? Be sure and let us know how the run goes.
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gPink: Punky is now blind but still going. I'll post the Valdosta results. Later, amigo. Lew
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Wild: Chris Jones still has my bike. Some of the delay is my fault for having Chris do more mods than originally intended. He has installed JE or Carrilllo turbo forged 9.5 CR pistons, larger '07 ZX14 throttle bodies and injectors, Speedohealer, water/methanol injection, adjustable boost controller, DJ PCIIIusb/Hub, map sensor, piped the exhaust to dual Muzzy CFs, hid the turbo air cleaner up higher and behind the plastic, Pingel elect. shifter w/light set to flash at 10,200 rpm and handlebar shift buttons and a BMC Race Tech rear remanufctured/revalved shock, Soupys rear adjustable lowering links and adjustable side stand, heavier valve and clutch springs and cam chain tensioner in addition to the turbo, wastegate, blowoff valve, SS header. I also have a ultra soft Shinko Stealth 200 wide tire and Catalyst Composite drag step seat. Chris is scheduled to take the bike to Valdosta, GA and put a pro/champion drag racer, John Fernandez, on it to compete in the Street ET class in the Manufacturers Cup Finals Nov. 9-11. Rickey Gadson will be riding his Jones turbo prepared '12 ZX14R in the Real Street Finals. I have medical problems, can't ride myself but will be there and tow the bike home (Spaz won't care for that idea). At least, the bike will have actual live drag racing tickets to show what it can do w/a pro rider instead of just dyno results. I still would like to do Rickey Gadson's drag racing school, when I am able. I am scheduled for more steroid injections in my lumbar spine and sacroilliac, which is causing me severe hip pains/sciatica. Sometimes I can barely walk with a severe limp. Hope I get better before I get worse. At my age there are no guarantees but I'm not through with my bucket list yet. I'm very gratified to be one who doesn't follow the herd. I like pushing the envelope, thinking outside the box and doing things different than most others. I lived on and cruised a trimaran sailboat for 5 years including out to Hawaii. Most sailors I met thought I was crazy for having a trimaran instead of the traditional ballasted keel single hull sailboat. They said, "The damned thing will capsize and when it does it will stay that way." I said, "At least its faster and more comfortable (doesn't heel over much) and doesn't sink when holed." One guy gave me a hatchet to chop my way out, when it went upside down. Rode to the bottom of South America even though many said, "You must be crazy. You'll be robbed, killed, bike stollen, diseased, dog impounded, jailed, stranded" and endless reasons why most folks won't do such a thing. There were a few, but not many, who were envious of the adventure. Many were dumbfounded, when we (my Yorkie, Punky, and a senorita/wife from Peru) returned in one piece with tons of foreign stickers on the panniers and tail box. How many of you have lived on a 3rd world country's remote beach on the Tropic of Cancer in front of the only extensive live coral reef on the west coast of N. America, rode my bike exploring back dirt roads, fished, snorkeled and got drunk at will, usually at 5 everyday. I voted today. Hope y'all do too. Later, amigo. Lew
This is AWESOME! Thanks for posting, Lew.
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Lew, I can't wait to see video of your bike in action. Any major suspension work or upgrades to the driveshaft to help your bike launch better (more bulletproof)?
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Lowered the rear with Soupys adjustable links and sidestand. Have BMC Race Tech revalved/remanufactured rear shock custom for my weight, bike weight, tire, and bike use street/drag. Front dropped 3/4" and will be strapped for drag racing. Nothing done on the drive train. Hoping it can handle the power. If it launches better than it is set up now, I don't know how to keep the front wheel down. Can't stretch the swing arm or change sprockets like a ZX14. Don't want a wheelie bar. Rickey Gadson's OEM wheelbase turboed ZX14R is set up to keep the front wheel down and he's got a bigger turbo and more power than I do. Controling the amount of boost and rpm shift points is part of the answer and of course the expertise of a rider like Rickey Gadson. Don't know if the 200 wide ultra soft Shinko Stealth tire will put more or less rubber/nylon on the ground at 15 psi. Some say the wheel width will restrict the contact patch to less than the 190. I'll ask experts at Valdosta before I have the 200 installed. It's all an interesting and fun experiment. I haven't heard much from Spaz and Fretka about their turboed C14s with forged turbo pistons installed and whatever else they may have done to improve their bikes after suffering piston/valve problems. BTW, I am old and crotchety. Later, amigo. Lew
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Wild: Chris Jones still has my bike. Some of the delay is my fault for having Chris do more mods than originally intended. He has installed JE or Carrilllo turbo forged 9.5 CR pistons, larger '07 ZX14 throttle bodies, injectors and velocity stacks, Speedohealer, water/methanol injection, adjustable boost controller, DJ PCIIIusb/Hub, map sensor, piped the exhaust to dual Muzzy CFs, hid the turbo air cleaner up higher and behind the plastic, Pingel elect. shifter w/light set to flash at 10,200 rpm and handlebar shift buttons and a BMC Race Tech rear remanufctured/revalved shock, Soupys rear adjustable lowering links and adjustable side stand, heavier valve and clutch springs and cam chain tensioner in addition to the turbo, wastegate, blowoff valve, SS header. I also have a ultra soft Shinko Stealth 200 wide tire and Catalyst Composite drag step seat. Chris is scheduled to take the bike to Valdosta, GA and put a pro/champion drag racer, John Fernandez, on it to compete in the Street ET class in the Manufacturers Cup Finals Nov. 9-11. Rickey Gadson will be riding his Jones turbo prepared '12 ZX14R in the Real Street Finals. I have medical problems, can't ride myself but will be there and tow the bike home (Spaz won't care for that idea). At least, the bike will have actual live drag racing tickets to show what it can do w/a pro rider instead of just dyno results. I still would like to do Rickey Gadson's drag racing school, when I am able. I am scheduled for more steroid injections in my lumbar spine and sacroilliac, which is causing me severe hip pains/sciatica. Sometimes I can barely walk with a severe limp. Hope I get better before I get worse. At my age there are no guarantees but I'm not through with my bucket list yet. I'm very gratified to be one who doesn't follow the herd. I like pushing the envelope, thinking outside the box and doing things different than most others. I lived on and cruised a trimaran sailboat for 5 years including out to Hawaii. Most sailors I met thought I was crazy for having a trimaran instead of the traditional ballasted keel single hull sailboat. They said, "The damned thing will capsize and when it does it will stay that way." I said, "At least its faster and more comfortable (doesn't heel over much) and doesn't sink when holed." One guy gave me a hatchet to chop my way out, when it went upside down. Rode to the bottom of South America even though many said, "You must be crazy. You'll be robbed, killed, bike stollen, diseased, dog impounded, jailed, stranded" and endless reasons why most folks won't do such a thing. There were a few, but not many, who were envious of the adventure. Many were dumbfounded, when we (my Yorkie, Punky, and a senorita/wife from Peru) returned in one piece with tons of foreign stickers on the panniers and tail box. How many of you have lived on a 3rd world country's remote beach on the Tropic of Cancer in front of the only extensive live coral reef on the west coast of N. America, rode my bike exploring back dirt roads, fished, snorkeled and got drunk at will, usually at 5 everyday. I voted today. Hope y'all do too. Later, amigo. Lew
I read this like five times over and enjoyed it everytime, You are my hero :) I can't wait to see video and or pictures as I think this is awesome!!!! :D :D