Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: mike-s4 on November 09, 2011, 09:44:33 AM
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Hi Guys,
My warranty is now finished on my 08. Kawasaki replaced the front rotors 2 times no charge. The third set is now starting to shake again at 57000 Kilometers. I decided to try some aftermarket rotors. The oem discs obviously have a problem.
I found these on ebay for $194.00 US for the set. FREE SHIPPING! Ordered them on Oct-31 and they came in this morning Nov-9. That's 7 working days delivery from China to Canada.(no extra fees or taxes)
The quality is excellent. The carriers are cnc machined while the oem carriers appear to be a stamping. I installed them this morning and went out for a test ride. Smooth as silk. Time will tell if they stay straight, but if they last as long as the original rotors,, for 97 dollars each I'll be very happy.
The only difference dimensionally i could find is the oem rotor has a small recess on the inside where it rests on the hub. There is a thin gasket/shim that fits flush in this recess. Since the new rotor did not have this recess, i did not install it with the spacer.
I'll do a follow-up after i put some miles on them.
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My Galfer rotors were the same design with no recess, so Galfer told me to leave the stock shim out.
Good luck with the new rotors.
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I will be very interested to hear how these rotors hold up. Once my warranty expires (2 more years) I might try a set of them if they work well for you.
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Wow. They look pretty well made. Hope the work good for Ya.
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Can't work any worse than than the stockers. Well maybe they could, but we'll see.
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I think I will as well. I do have this "china" thing in mind, but its not logical. I've been screwed my way more "made in usa" or "EBC" products than I care to comment on.
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Non-union made too (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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Am I the first person to put these on a Connie? The zx14 forums have positive posts about them. I did a search here but found nothing.
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It's possibly the first time here... ZX-14s have the same rotor issues that we have.
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There was a member who posted a thread stating he was thinking about them and IIRC he was swayed by the naysayers.
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Which occurs whenever the C word is mentioned....
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What's the actual make of the rotors?
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Brand is ARASHI. part number DBS059W. Here`s the link..
http://www.arashimoto.com/product/604.html (http://www.arashimoto.com/product/604.html)
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Never know. These might prove to be superior to OEM. China's manufacturing has gotten a lot better over the last decade. Time will tell I suppose.
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Never know. These might prove to be superior to OEM. China's manufacturing has gotten a lot better over the last decade. Time will tell I suppose.
And for all we know, the STOCK OEM ones might be made in China. Japan outsources, too.
I love it when people put down Japanese vehicles as "Foreign" when lots of them are even made in the USA, and a lot of "native" brands are made with more than 50% components, design, materials, or labor not from/in the USA. It is a global economy now. There is some very good stuff made in China, and a lot of really bad crap. But that can be said for many points of origin.
One thing is for sure- the vast majority of every electronic devices we consume are made in China, as is furniture, toys, housewares, etc. If we suddenly stopped all Chinese imports, our entire economy would instantly collapse and the standard of living would be decimated.
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And for all we know, the STOCK OEM ones might be made in China. Japan outsources, too.
I love it when people put down Japanese vehicles as "Foreign" when lots of them are even made in the USA, and a lot of "native" brands are made with more than 50% components, design, materials, or labor not from/in the USA. It is a global economy now. There is some very good stuff made in China, and a lot of really bad crap. But that can be said for many points of origin.
One thing is for sure- the vast majority of every electronic devices we consume are made in China, as is furniture, toys, housewares, etc. If we suddenly stopped all Chinese imports, our entire economy would instantly collapse and the standard of living would be decimated.
:goodpost:
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Sorry I won't be able to report on the long term reliability until spring. It's pretty cold up here in Canada . We've been lucky enough to be able to ride this late in the season, but it's about time to put it away for the winter.
Mike
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Thanks for posting the price, source and photos. It would be great to have a second, more reasonable source for rotors for this bike. Those rotors actually look like they are pretty high in quality and are better looking than the OEM's IMO, and the carrier certainly looks more rugged.
Rotors are a pretty basic device, and as long as the steel used is not terrible in quality (which is really touch to do with modern equipment), and they are ground flat to begin with, they should be quite serviceable. There have been Chinese rotors available for autos for years and they have been successful from what I have seen and without any particular problems or failures.
Brian
Sorry I won't be able to report on the long term reliability until spring. It's pretty cold up here in Canada . We've been lucky enough to be able to ride this late in the season, but it's about time to put it away for the winter.
Mike
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Sorry I won't be able to report on the long term reliability until spring. It's pretty cold up here in Canada . We've been lucky enough to be able to ride this late in the season, but it's about time to put it away for the winter.
Mike
What pads are you running and did you change them when you installed the rotors?
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Rotors are a pretty basic device, and as long as the steel used is not terrible in quality (which is really touch to do with modern equipment), and they are ground flat to begin with, they should be quite serviceable. There have been Chinese rotors available for autos for years and they have been successful from what I have seen and without any particular problems or failures.
Brian
Exactly. The oem front rotors on my volvo are over $150.00 each. I have had no problems with the $35.00 Chinese replacements from my local auto parts. Over 50000 km on them!
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What pads are you running and did you change them when you installed the rotors?
I`m not sure what brand they are but they are the brass type. I have experimented with lots of different kinds/brands of pads with the same results. Warped rotors. Kawasaki has never tried to blame the pads. After all, the oem pads warped the first set of rotors.
BTW- The front rotors on my 1997 ZX-11 are original and straight as an arrow. Never had a problem.
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Brass? What brand are you using.. Kawi, EBC, CL....? I would think switching to the new Kawi pads would be sufficient, though. There are at least two problems that affect the rotors. One is the physical warping of the disk and the second is the transfer of excess pad material to the rotor. Both cause the shuddering.
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Brass? What brand are you using.. Kawi, EBC, CL....? I would think switching to the new Kawi pads would be sufficient, though. There are at least two problems that affect the rotors. One is the physical warping of the disk and the second is the transfer of excess pad material to the rotor. Both cause the shuddering.
Hi Jim, I think they are the SIXITY brand. I know for certain they are sintered bronze. But there never was any issue of pad buildup on the rotors that Kawasaki replaced under warranty. They cleaned them and checked them with a dial gauge each time. I saw the posts about pad buildup and cleaned the rotors when they started to vibrate. Did not solve the problem. They were bent.
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Since you mentioned you have an '08, I have to mention the change in pad material for the '10 and the carrier change in '11. Kawasaki first tried to say it was pad material transfer, now they say the carrier wasn't wicking away enough heat. So anyway, what type of pads and/or carrier do they replace your with?
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Since you mentioned you have an '08, I have to mention the change in pad material for the '10 and the carrier change in '11. Kawasaki first tried to say it was pad material transfer, now they say the carrier wasn't wicking away enough heat. So anyway, what type of pads and/or carrier do they replace your with?
Rawman, I went thru lots of pads. 2 sets from kawasaki then some kevlar ,and some other brand of sintered type.I think they are SIXITY brand (ebay). I don`t know about the carriers.
I had the bike out again today and everything is fine. But i won`t be doing any big mileage until spring.
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got a set of those rotors on my tuono.......only about a thousand miles on them but so far real good......maybe even better than the OEM brembos.....
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Am I the first person to put these on a Connie? The zx14 forums have positive posts about them. I did a search here but found nothing.
Nope - and it's still a connie - steve
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Nope - and it's still a connie - steve
Hi Steve, Those certainly look like the same rotors. You can get them with black or gold carrier. The black looks really nice on that connie. Have you had any problems with them ? How many miles ?
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They're only got a couple thousand miles on them so far, just put them on is october. I took off a set of OEM zx11 rotors that were (are) in very good condition. Still, i definitely got more bite from these wave rotors. Don't know why, but it's obvious. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. steve
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They're only got a couple thousand miles on them so far, just put them on is october. I took off a set of OEM zx11 rotors that were (are) in very good condition. Still, i definitely got more bite from these wave rotors. Don't know why, but it's obvious. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. steve
How would you rate the build quality compared to a Galfer rotor? I suspect that these are produced by a company that is run by someone that came from Galfer or something like that. They look top notch in the pictures and I am definitely leaning towards using these when my warranty expires.
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It's possibly the first time here... ZX-14s have the same rotor issues that we have.
I cannot understand why would Kawasaki use such lousy stock rotors to begin with? I have a Suzuki B King bike with exactly the same front brake calipers, but much beefier looking OEM rotors without the stupid petal edge design. The brakes on the B King are by far the best brakes I ever had on any bike. Incredibly responsible and powerful. Compared to those, the brakes on the Concours are so-so. I realize it is a much heavier bike, but the rotors definitely look a lot flimsier.
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I cannot understand why would Kawasaki use such lousy stock rotors to begin with? I have a Suzuki B King bike with exactly the same front brake calipers, but much beefier looking OEM rotors without the stupid petal edge design. The brakes on the B King are by far the best brakes I ever had on any bike. Incredibly responsible and powerful. Compared to those, the brakes on the Concours are so-so. I realize it is a much heavier bike, but the rotors definitely look a lot flimsier.
Hello Z71,
The c-14 brakes have no performance problems that i have heard of. Mine are one of the best set of brakes i have ever had on a motorcycle. It is a long-term reliability problem. The rotors start to vibrate after a while. They simply do not want to stay straight. Response and power are not the problem.
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6000 kilometers on them and no vibration.
From new the braking was smooth and as strong as the Kawi rotors.
They seem to get even more powerful as they get broken in.
I'll check in again as the miles pile on.
Anybody else try these yet?
Brake pad questions - I re-installed the same pads that were on the bent kawi rotors.
Sixity brand metallic bronze bought on ebay.
Also- Local Kawi dealer has a set of Galfer rotors for the zx14 on display. They are identical.
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thanks for the update. Keep it up!
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Hello Z71,
The c-14 brakes have no performance problems that i have heard of. Mine are one of the best set of brakes i have ever had on a motorcycle. It is a long-term reliability problem. The rotors start to vibrate after a while. They simply do not want to stay straight. Response and power are not the problem.
Nope, the stock C14 brakes are weak. My old C10 (with a 320mm BBK) stops better.
C14 is 310mm. I tossed the stock pads and rubber brake hoses and went to all HH pads and SS lines and now I have good brakes.
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My stock 08 brakes beat the :censored: out of stock C10 brakes. As they are, the C14 brakes are pretty darn good, but I don't ride like
Nicky Hayden Dani Pedrosa or need to stop like him, either.
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Nope, the stock C14 brakes are weak. My old C10 (with a 320mm BBK) stops better.
C14 is 310mm. I tossed the stock pads and rubber brake hoses and went to all HH pads and SS lines and now I have good brakes.
You are out of your mind, any of my friends that have ridden mine all commented on how great the brakes were.
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Stock C10 brakes are very weak.
The C14 is a big heavy bike and compared to modern light weight race bikes the brakes just do not compare. It is all relative.
I was comparing my 'STOCK' C14 brakes (310mm rotor, soft squishy rubber hoses and stock non grabby pads)
with my highly modified C10 which currently has = 320 mm rotors (stock are 300mm) and hard non expanding Speigler S.S. lines(stock are soft expanding squishy rubber) with 4 piston calipers (stock is 2 pistons)
Now, when I bought my C14 the first thing I noticed is my C14 does not stop as well as my C10 and did not stop good enough for me.I guess I have been spoiled.
So I fixed that with all new H.H pads and all new S.S. lines.
You too will notice the HUGE difference and improvement and your friends will too. Find a C14 with these simple mods and ride one. Many of us have already done it.
Have a look at the service manuals for C10 and C14. " Replace the rubber brake and clutch hoses every 4 years"
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Must have been something wrong with your C14, mine stops on a dime with minimal effort "always has". I am almost always 1 and no more than 2 fingers for scrubbing off speed or hard stopping, even with my mushy rubber brake lines. Steel brake lines help with feel, they do very little to nothing for stopping power. I have ridden allot of other bikes including super sports, and the C14 has excellent brakes especially in the sport touring category. Granted I do run Galfer HH pads now, and they for sure give me better feel and contact over the OEM pads. The manual says allot of dumb and unnecessary things, replacing lines every 4 years is one of them. Mine are probably more like 6 years old now, considering my 08 was probably built in 07. Your thoughts may differ. ;)
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C14 has excellent brakes, no doubt, but there's room for improvement. The three parameters are
- stopping power: more than enough, no complains here.
- lever feel: could be better, and that's where the steel lines come in handy.
- resistance: after two hours doing alpine passes (in the area of Canazei, Italy), keeping up with S1000RRs and Ducati's, I was touching the grip with the brake lever and still not braking much. But it was an extreme situation, no question.
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Stock C10 brakes are very weak.
I was comparing my 'STOCK' C14 brakes (310mm rotor, soft squishy rubber hoses and stock non grabby pads)
with my highly modified C10 which currently has = 320 mm rotors (stock are 300mm) and hard non expanding Speigler S.S. lines(stock are soft expanding squishy rubber) with 4 piston calipers (stock is 2 pistons)
Have a look at the service manuals for C10 and C14. " Replace the rubber brake and clutch hoses every 4 years"
My C10 was 5 years old when I decided to go with a C14. I'm glad I upgraded. I did realize that you were talking about a highly modified brake system on your C10. The C10 isn't in the fly weight class either. As far as replacing the hoses, I haven't noticed any difference in the feel of the brakes on my C14. They're still the best I've ever had.
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Stock C10 brakes are very weak.
The C14 is a big heavy bike and compared to modern light weight race bikes the brakes just do not compare. It is all relative.
I was comparing my 'STOCK' C14 brakes (310mm rotor, soft squishy rubber hoses and stock non grabby pads)
with my highly modified C10 which currently has = 320 mm rotors (stock are 300mm) and hard non expanding Speigler S.S. lines(stock are soft expanding squishy rubber) with 4 piston calipers (stock is 2 pistons)
Now, when I bought my C14 the first thing I noticed is my C14 does not stop as well as my C10 and did not stop good enough for me.I guess I have been spoiled.
So I fixed that with all new H.H pads and all new S.S. lines.
You too will notice the HUGE difference and improvement and your friends will too. Find a C14 with these simple mods and ride one. Many of us have already done it.
Have a look at the service manuals for C10 and C14. " Replace the rubber brake and clutch hoses every 4 years"
Whoa... Your original post was ambiguous and made a bad assumption... Not all of us came from a C10. For all I know they came stock with a 320mm rotor!?!?!? And your second post spelling everything out should have been your original post... I guess I better go back and memorize all the C10 specs for future updates... ;)
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Mike, I have the Arashi rotors on my C14 since last summer and am about 3500 miles in.
So far no issues to report with the rotors, but the EBC HH pads I fitted at the same time as the rotors are too grabby.
At some point in the near future I will be chamfering the edges of the pads as recommended by a friend of mine who runs a small racing team.
Apparently this helps massively with slotted rotors and is why EBC do drilled rotors.
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Whoa... Your original post was ambiguous and made a bad assumption... Not all of us came from a C10. For all I know they came stock with a 320mm rotor!?!?!? And your second post spelling everything out should have been your original post... I guess I better go back and memorize all the C10 specs for future updates... ;)
All you had to do was read what I said, no memorizing required.
My original post DID say BBK.
'My old C10 (with a 320mm BBK) stops better. C14 is 310mm. '
Just in case you don't know what BBK is: It stands for Big Brake Kit. That kit means =not stock.
martin_14 You are correct . I too could squeeze the lever to the handle and was not stopping like I thought it should.
I normally do not have to brake that hard but sometimes I need to.
Anyway, it is fixed now. I dont know why the service manual says to change rubber hoses every 4 years. Maybe for legal reasons. I just put SS lines on and never have to worry about it again.
Boomer those Arashi rotors look just like the Chinese Galfer knockoffs seen on Ebay. I wonder if the steel is softer hence the 'too grabby'. http://www.arashimoto.com/contact%20us/contact%20us.html (http://www.arashimoto.com/contact%20us/contact%20us.html)
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I guess I have been extremely lucky. 45k on my stock brake rotors and no problems. They are the best set of stock brakes I have ever had on a bike. My 09 is non abs - I have no idea if abs is harder on rotors or not. I have cleaned my rotors with a hone and drill motor, and I am on my second set of EBC pads. I have not checked the thickness of my rotors. SteveWFL's post made me realize I should do that. If I need new rotors, I would not hesitate to try these so thanks for posting about them.
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I've had these rotors with EBC HH pads on the bike for about 2000 miles now. Rode 1500 of it last week on a trip to Suches Ga. 1000 miles chasing sportier bikes on the Cheryhola, Blood Mountain and Warwoman as well as many others. So far I'm really happy with them and would buy them again.
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FYI Update: I installed these rotors at 57000 kilometers and am now at 82000. Total= 25000 kilometers (about 15600 miles) and they are perfectly straight. Smooth powerful stopping. Problem solved.
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Mike, thanks a lot for the update.
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Mike, thanks a lot for the update.
+1 :finger_fing11:
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Any long term updates on the "Chinese" rotors?
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Any long term updates on the "Chinese" rotors?
Sorry Beaver. Bike's been locked in the shed all winter.
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Anyone else?