Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Surf Concours on July 05, 2016, 01:58:26 PM
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Any chance we could KISS. (keeping it simple...)
If we just desire a "softer" kinder ride over bumps (Rider 140 lbs., no bags and always solo) do I turn each shock more to S or H? Thank you very much.
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We only have one shock. There's two forks that can be adjusted. We can adjust spring preload and rebound damping. The owner's manual has a section devoted to those adjustments.....not that they do any good. My preload on the forks are just about all the way out if not all the way out. The damping adjustment will make the ride less harsh.. Turn the damping screw in for more damping. Turn it out for less. Turn the spring compression nut in for more compression..out for less. If you don't have an owner's manual you can download it for free from the Kwackers site.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=15258.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=15258.0)
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I recommend a different bike for your stated conditions. Seriously.
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You can only do so much without spending a gazillion dollars on aftermarket suspensions.. The cheapest thing to do is gain weight. Keep the stock exhaust can (weighs a ton). Or strap lots of rocks in the cases.
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I weigh 147 pounds and I don't think the ride is overly harsh. Sure, I wouldn't mind some softer springs, but not badly enough to go through the expense/time/effort.
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I think I have it as smooth as I can get with the stock suspension. I wouldn't mind it smoother but it's a sport tourer. It's a compromise. I had a Voyager that was pretty smooth but it didn't have the performance characteristic of our bikes. Between the two, I'll take the C14 any day of the week.
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I think its possible to find your sweet spot, but it wont be perfect in every situation. If you set your bike up to ride gently, the bike wont like when you thrash on it because every suspension adjustment is a compromise. you can get more x if you have less y.
Some riders never mess with it and some are messing with it constantly. I am a more aggressive rider so I like my suspension tight (I dont want to dive when I brake or bottom out my travel) so I have adjusted everything slightly tighter (+) as I am over 200lbs
someday soon I will rendezvous with a forum member and we will set ours up properly with the 2 guy method
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Yep, if you're going to ride it like Mary Jane Tinklepants rides her scooter to cheerleading practice, you can get away with a mushy suspension set up. But if you do that, things are going to get really ugly when you ride it like a motorcycle. Or if you have to make a panic stop....
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Any chance we could KISS. (keeping it simple...)
If we just desire a "softer" kinder ride over bumps (Rider 140 lbs., no bags and always solo) do I turn each shock more to S or H? Thank you very much.
More to S. You're welcome.
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Adjusting towards 'S' will make the bike a little less stiff, but as noted, will reduce the handling if you ride it more sportily...
Yep, if you're going to ride it like Mary Jane Tinklepants rides her scooter to cheerleading practice, you can get away with a mushy suspension set up. But if you do that, things are going to get really ugly when you ride it like a motorcycle. Or if you have to make a panic stop....
Translation : If you don't ride like I think you should ride, I'm going to call you names, and tell you you don't ride it like a motorcycle.
Everybody buys a Concours for their own reasons. Surf : Your reasons are just as valid as anyone else's... Ride it like you want to. That's why Kawasaki makes these things adjustable - so everyone can set it up the way that makes them happy, not the way it makes someone else happy.
Sorry to "harsh out" here, but I guess I'd be considered a fairly conservative rider compared to some on here, and it ticks me off when someone tells me I'm doing it wrong. I'm doing it the way I want! The whole idea of denigrating someone because of their choice of riding style is kinda High school Grade 4 - not something we (as grown-ups) should waste our time reading or writing. OK - Rant off.
Jamie (that's Jamie Tinklepants to some of you, I guess...)
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More to "S". Thanks Daddy Flip.
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The OP (Surf Concours) mentioned nothing about riding style. They may very well be an experienced rider that has never owned a motorcycle tith adjustable suspension settings. I was pointing out the possible negative effects of a too soft suspension.
As far as riding style and "name calling", I believe it was mentioned in a general way. Nothing personal at all. Mary Jane has been referenced on this forum more than a few times in the past. But if the shoe fits, feel free to put it on and lace it up.
Am I to assume that generalizations have no place here? I.E. All BMW riders are snobs. All Harley riders have obnoxiously loud bikes that break down all the time. Etc., etc...
Translation: Ride whatever you want, however you want. I don't care. Just be aware that different set ups, tires, accessories, etc. are not suited to all riding style/situations.
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In general, generalizations are ok here.
Tires can cause a harsher ride as can the oil in the forks if it's been in too long without changing it. Happened to me. The ride got 'better' after the oil was switched out. Used the weight that was recommended by Kwackers. One can muck about with different weight oils or changed the amount in the forks, but most of us don't have time to go to that extreme. The rear suspension is just plain too stiff. Nothing I've done fixes that. It did get a bit better over time but adding a passenger helps.
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... but adding a passenger helps.
That's it! Become a driver for (insert app-based ride-share company here). The extra weight will soften the ride.
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All good points. Unfortunately, the OP specifically asked for KISS and a "this or that" answer under certain conditions, nothing more. Eventually, I figured it out and won the prize. Please send it to my inbox.
But in our infinite forum wisdom, we like to change or add to the conditions, list caveats, mention alternatives, poke fun, call names, point fingers, etc., just because we can type. Rider is 140 pounds? Gain weight. Rider never uses bags? Add bags and put rocks in them. Rider is always solo? Add a passenger. Rider asks for adjustments? Get new shocks and forks and/or change the oil to a different weight and/or get new or different tires. Rider states the problem to be solved? Let's mention all the other problems that might (or might not) be created outside of the rider's stated conditions. But I digress..........
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If you notice, you see that I tell him what to do with the front fork adjustments and to download the owner's manual. You can't get more simple than that. And asking about suspension setup on this bike is not trivial nor easy if you really want to dial it in for the rider/passenger, which is why I pointed him to other links to that information on the fourm. There is no KISS for suspension. That's why we have more threads than we can shake a stick at for suspension and other subjects.
You know I'm rapidly coming to the point of locking threads where the op wants a 'simple' or 'concise' or 'just the facts' and nothing else answer. The C14 forum doesn't work that way and most likely never will and people get upset when the members don't give a 'simple', 'concise' or 'just the facts' type of answer. This thread has all the answers in it. We've been riding this bike since 07, and I have yet to find the 'KISS' switch under the plastics. I sure could use it but it ain't there. Maybe I could have answered it 'There isn't a simple way to get where you're going.' and left it at that. Be glad this isn't the Tacoma forum where it would have gone multiple pages without any redeeming information.
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You are right; a case of, "Be careful what you ask for..." Maybe it would better if folks wanting answers to multiple choice questions posted a poll rather than a question.
The KIpaSS switch is front and center. Been there since 07. ;)
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:battle: :rotflmao:
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Maybe it would just be simpler if everyone that has an answer weighs over 150#, they should all just keep out of it, not answer it, and move on...
What a bunch of whiney babies....
Id never attempt to tell some 140# rider where to begin adjusting, id do as Jim did, and say RTFM... turn every adjustment to its lowest position, and start from there...
(https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/homer-simpson-true-detective.jpg?w=597&h=336&crop=1)
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Starting to sound like a COG thread. I'm not kidding.
Hey OP… you had this bike for sale recently. Are you trying to figure out how to make it work for you or is it still for sale?
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Them's fighting words... ;)
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One thing the OP might do is go to the Race Tech site racetech.com and go through the exercise of putting their weight in to their spring calculator. Also, their FAQ section is pretty good. A 140lb rider should have a spring ratio or 1.234kg/mm. Our stocker is 1.2kg/mm.
I'm not sure but is that recommending a heftier spring? They have different spring rates coming up after you put in your weight. My ratio is 1.35kg/mm.
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Unfortunately Yes the bike is for Sale, my knees are cramping more and hating some of the road bumps. I recently inquired about any Threads regarding moving the foot/peg controls forward to decrease the knee/leg bend? I’m not interested in a cruiser, and not looking forward to considering a BMW $$. HELP
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If you've backed out all the settings there isn't much you can do for it, unfortunately other than changing spring rates, fluid viscosity, fluid levels, but that is a lot of work for possibly little gain. Sorry.
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Truth be told, I'm 240# so I'm not qualified, according to the MOB to give an answer. BUT, the facts say that Kawi setup the bike in its standard OE configuration for a 150# rider. The spring rate, confirmed by Racetech, is correct (that 34 thousandths of a kilo is insignificant in the big picture).
There are two issues the OP is trying to address if we have all the facts: (1) knee bend/foot location and (2) impact of bike response to road imperfections on the rider.
(1) This is a sport bike. Have to come to grips with that fact before moving on to potential problem resolution. Yes, it is a sport-touring bike, meaning the controls/geometry is relaxed a little compared to its parent bike. If knee bend is an issue, then a custom seat that moves the rider up and back is a potential solution. I did this on another bike with a Baldwin GT seat, which is also wider at the front to give more support under the thighs. For a short rider, this can cause some issues with getting the feet down. Lower pegs are also a potential and there are some that have a bit of fore/aft adjustment. This means that the control levers might have to be adjusted. A combination of custom seat and peg lowering is an option. Also, moving up and back will require a shorter rider make significant adjustment to handlebar location. Horizon bars ($700) might be necessary for ultimate comfort and control. If the rider can deal with less extreme measures in the normal pegs, then a set of highway pegs, either dedicated, or mounted to tip-over protection bars, would give temporary, alternative foot placement for relieving pressure from the knees. Every rider's physical needs and mental/emotional expectations are different. I am 6-3 with a 35" inseam sitting on a 5-year old stock seat and I have no issue with seat or foot placement and knee bend. My knees are only 46 years old but they have not been pampered. Bottom line... the rider sensitive to knee bend on a sport or sport-touring bike needs to spend time and money altering the bike to fit their needs / expectations, change their expectations, or change bikes.
(2) The repairs to the roads where I live have been repaired several times over. This means there are potholes and mounds of black tar patches all over the place. The road in front of my house is two lane blacktop, 3.25 miles long and perfectly straight. Navigating my 8-foot lane is like walking through a minefield. When I hit a 'mine' I know it and feel it; I want to avoid as many as possible. Again, I'm 240# but I have never touched the suspension adjustments after 5000 miles. I have no idea where they are set. After spending a year fiddling with every possible adjustment on my last bike and never being satisfied, I will make a generalization and say that if a casual, recreational rider is not basically happy with a bike in any random configuration of suspension and tire pressure settings, then chances are he will never be happy with that bike, even if the "perfect" settings are ever found.
I had a brand new bike that I wanted and loved with all my heart - it was unexpectedly (wasn't shopping for that style bike) perfect for me. But I hated riding it because it always performed below my expectations. Maybe my expectations were wrong, but that didn't change reality for me. The longer I owned it, the less satisfied I became until it just sat in the carport. Then I hated looking at it sitting there. Poor bike. A few years ago, I changed cars from a Dodge Magnum to a Ford Taurus. I had two Magnums in a row and loved them. I hated the Taurus for a long time; it took 40,000 miles before I could break in the seat and be comfortable in it. Now I love the Taurus (except the gauges suck- poor dash and bezel design).
BUT if there is something to be done to resolve (2) it will come in the form of patience and trial and error. Experiment with lower air pressure. 42/42 has to be for rider/passenger with luggage, even though the book doesn't say this. Remembering that this is a heavy bike, don't go crazy but I might slowly/gradually try as low as 38psi on a safe road with no traffic to see how the bike behaves. Depends on the tire also. Don't run a GT or A spec tire; you don't need it for your conditions. These will have stiffer sidewalls.
On suspension. I would put all settings at book standard. Then on that mythical safe and traffic free road, experiment first with the damping adjustments to see if they settle or relax the bike faster after hitting bumps. Shock alone at full S then full H to see if you notice a difference and if one is better than the other. Then try both forks alone (put shock back to standard) full S then full H. Once you know how the bike responds to the extremes, you will have clues as to how to make adjustments in combination to potentially settle the bike. Then put all this back to standard and play with the preload. Unless you know what you're doing, it's best just to get lucky with the adjustments, OR there are a couple of good primers on the net for adjusting sag and damping, OR you can take the bike to a specialist who can help you set it up by the numbers (not the book) and go from there.
If none of this is appealing or possible, then bike shopping is guaranteed to be fun, expensive, and at least temporarily satisfying.
BTW... I see the OP has asked for peg threads on the other forum. On THIS forum, try a search for "move pegs" (three pages of posts) and "lower pegs" (seven pages of posts) for ideas that might suit.
Maybe this thread is a winner...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=386.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=386.0)
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:goodpost:
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:goodpost:
:thumbs: +1
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On suspension. I would put all settings at book standard.
Having had some issues myself setting up my suspension,and I haven't found the sweet spot yet,could you please tell me what "book standard" is?
I have searched both owners and service manual and found nothing.Please give me somewhere to look,and thanks in advance...
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As always....what year bike? The book guideline settings in the owner's manual for the gen 1s (08-09) starts at page 190. Have no clue on the gen 2's.
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If you start at page 190 for G2, you're gonna get an oil thread going, so I will try to restrain myself.
Suspension adjustment in the G2 book (Owner's Manual, that is) starts on page 224. The numbers and explanations are there, so no need to spell them out here.
Happy reading!
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Thanks...
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Just something I recently learned. Bought a Duc Multistrada 1100S, that had Ohlins front and rear. Didn't keep the bike, due to problems I didn't want to address, but FWIW, that suspension was the BEST I have ever owned, and that is almost 70 bikes over almost 50 years. Corners, no problem. Rough roads, smooth as glass, I was totally amazed at how good that suspension was, and I hadn't even set it up for me.
My '11 C14 is set at just a bit harder than stock recommendations, but still feels good on highways and in the twisties, at 200lbs.
Hope you go things sorted out, but if you don't want to spoil yourself for whatever you have, DON'T ride anything with Ohlins. tomp dd50