Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: snarf on June 27, 2011, 11:09:07 AM
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How much vacuum is needed to open the petcock? Currently on my '86 1-4 carbs are T'd together then leading up to the petcock. It has 1/4" black fuel line on them. I think this is way to sloppy.
Can carb #1 supply enough vac to open the petcock? I have plenty of vac caps laying around for my block-off plates.
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It don't take much, normally, only #2 goes to the petcock. I think 1 & 4 for the reed valve contraption, #3 capped.
So I think pulling from #1 shouldn't be a problem as long as the hose cant be kinked.
1/4 is too big, but I dont know the proper vacumn hose size...
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Can carb #1 supply enough vac to open the petcock?
I thought that was the way all C-10's were :-\
Mod - Me wrong :-[, #2 for vacuum
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I thought that was the way all C-10's were :-\
Mod - Me wrong :-[, #2 for vacuum
Yeah I couldnt remember if it was 1 or 2. The bike came with the 1/4" hose. I never paid any attention to it until this weekend. The vac caps that I include with my BO plates are 3/16". Looks like it's time to get rid of all that unnecessary hose and hook #2 up to the petcock.
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all I can sya is my '86 takes vacuum off #2 also. Seems Ireplaced theline with 3/16 but don't quote me.
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Hey Chris - the T may be your problem. since 1-4 fire 360* opposite of each other, I think each time you're trying to pull a vacuum on one cylinder, you're just negating the vacuum pulse by supplying air from the other cylinder. Steve
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;D You may have solved a problem for me Steve with my cruise. I have 1,3 and 4 with the more is better theory for my auduivox. I will try just pulling off of one cylinder or if I use 2 cylinders I suppose I would use 1 &3 or 2& 4? Hope that is the problem but I don't think it is vaccum related. Easy to check though.
Wayne
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Hey Chris - the T may be your problem. since 1-4 fire 360* opposite of each other, I think each time you're trying to pull a vacuum on one cylinder, you're just negating the vacuum pulse by supplying air from the other cylinder. Steve
More than likely I just fixed it. Removed all the T's, capped 1,3,and 4. I used to have to crank this bike over for ever to get it to start cold. First hit of the button she came to life.
I am getting ready to meet up with Tele130 on his journey through Iowa. I will know soon enough. Thanks everyone for the info.
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I couldnt wait any longer to try the bike out. I just went for a short ride.............OH YEA!! She runs like a champ. I dont know why it started doing this (a while ago)?? It has been like this since I rode her home from the Nationals. I remember being extremely impressed with her on the way home. Maybe I was just on a natural high ??? :o ::).
Well either way, NOW I can start to dial in the foam that I have stuffed in my air box. Damn this is just like Christmas :chugbeer: :thumbs: :chugbeer: :thumbs: :chugbeer: :chugbeer: :thumbs: :chugbeer: :chugbeer: :chugbeer:
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Now you know why long distance diagnosis is next to impossible. I had no idea that the vac line was tee'd all along while you were asking for diagnosis; If I had seen the bike in person I would have removed the Tee immediately.
To those using multiple vacuum ports, you can source a one-way vacuum valve from automotive applications. I pull them from toyota trucks I've worked on, but you'll have to check with your local autoparts stores for applications. HTH, Steve
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Now you know why long distance diagnosis is next to impossible. I had no idea that the vac line was tee'd all along while you were asking for diagnosis; If I had seen the bike in person I would have removed the Tee immediately.
To those using multiple vacuum ports, you can source a one-way vacuum valve from automotive applications. I pull them from toyota trucks I've worked on, but you'll have to check with your local autoparts stores for applications. HTH, Steve
:nuts: :nuts: Oh I know how aggravating it can be. I have fought this for a while (compounded with water in the gas). I do appreciate your help more than you know.
Soooooo, what is a good starting point for the size of foam? I have had so many different sizes in there I kinda forget what I started with. PM me if ya wanna
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Geez, Snarf.... REALLY GLAD YOU FIGURED IT OUT...!!
I recall your problems back some time ago.
Everybody was straining their brains trying to help you figure it out...
Like Steve sed, hard to troubleshoot from long distance...
I read one of your notes recently about a stumble at XXX RPM's... Did that stumble go away also?
Ride safe, Ted
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Geez, Snarf.... REALLY GLAD YOU FIGURED IT OUT...!!
I recall your problems back some time ago.
Everybody was straining their brains trying to help you figure it out...
Like Steve sed, hard to troubleshoot from long distance...
I read one of your notes recently about a stumble at XXX RPM's... Did that stumble go away also?
Ride safe, Ted
Yup cleared it right up. The way T-Cro explained it, plus the info SISF just gave; when I was rolling on the gas I was fighting for vac and the slides did not want to open. She purrs now.
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Found the Post I was referring to.
How much of a vac leak would it take to bog our bikes down? My bike is bogging down at wot. Mainly between 4-5 k then it pulls out of it like a monster. I have always thought the vac lines were sloppy on the nipples. It idles and revs great, it just bogs under heavy accel.
Mucho easier to trouble shoot with the info about the lines being T'eed together.
My guess: At WOT the vacuum drops. So your vacuum to the petcock (which was probably borderline at idle because of the "T") was not enough to keep the petcock open at WOT. Engine was starving for gas!
As the rpm's came up, the vacuum increased and the petcock opened back up.....
Heck you even said,,,, I have always thought the vac lines were sloppy on the nipples.
None of us caught that the plural "Lines and nipples". :o
It's all Steves fault!!! He shoulda known!! <evil grin> :rotflmao:
Ride safe, Ted
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Found the Post I was referring to.
How much of a vac leak would it take to bog our bikes down? My bike is bogging down at wot. Mainly between 4-5 k then it pulls out of it like a monster. I have always thought the vac lines were sloppy on the nipples. It idles and revs great, it just bogs under heavy accel.
Mucho easier to trouble shoot with the info about the lines being T'eed together.
My guess: At WOT the vacuum drops. So your vacuum to the petcock (which was probably borderline at idle because of the "T") was not enough to keep the petcock open at WOT. Engine was starving for gas!
As the rpm's came up, the vacuum increased and the petcock opened back up.....
Heck you even said,,,, I have always thought the vac lines were sloppy on the nipples.
None of us caught that the plural "Lines and nipples". :o
It's all Steves fault!!! He shoulda known!! <evil grin> :rotflmao:
Ride safe, Ted
No kidding I guess I oughta buy a 7th gear bevel from him so he can afford a new magic eight ball.
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Well SH!!!T. A guy just cant catch a break. I just fired the bike up to grab a bite to eat and I have fuel coming out of num three bowl (god bless overflow tubes). I tried blowing air up from the bottom of the bowl but alas no love. If I blow from the fuel inlet hose do you spose it would unstick the float enough to get me home? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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Might help, but tapping on the side of the carb while idling might be more likely to knock a bit of trash loose.
Better yet would be to stop the flow of gas to the carbs and let the engine idle, While idling (and using fuel) the valve will open fully.
LIGHTLY,,,, Tap, tap, tap..... Mebbe the trash will fall out...
Ride safe, Ted
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Might help, but tapping on the side of the carb while idling might be more likely to knock a bit of trash loose.
Better yet would be to stop the flow of gas to the carbs and let the engine idle, While idling (and using fuel) the valve will open fully.
LIGHTLY,,,, Tap, tap, tap..... Mebbe the trash will fall out...
Ride safe, Ted
Worth a shot. Thanks for the info. I will know more around 4:30
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If you have compressed air, open all the bowl vents and blow down through the fuel line. a small piece of trash can hold the needle off the seat. BTDT. Steve
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Yup cleared it right up. The way T-Cro explained it, plus the info SISF just gave; when I was rolling on the gas I was fighting for vac and the slides did not want to open. She purrs now.
No, what was happening is that the bowls were being starved for fuel. go back to a 1.75" piece of foam. Steve
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If you have compressed air, open all the bowl vents and blow down through the fuel line. a small piece of trash can hold the needle off the seat. BTDT. Steve
No, what was happening is that the bowls were being starved for fuel. go back to a 1.75" piece of foam. Steve
How much psi with compressed air? I can take one of our 5gal tanks out to the lot a give it a blast of air.
1.75" will do. I cant thank all of you enough for the info. Someday I hope I can help a poor sap out of a pickle as many of you have done in the past. :grouphug:
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I didn't realize that you had compressed air available.
Steve can better answer this, but I would start at 10-20 PSI.
Also do the Tap, tap...... Try to dislodge a piece of trash that may be under a needle seat.
NOTE: The important thing Steve said was "open all bowl vents".
In other words, drain all the carbs before doing this, and leave the valves open...
This will open the needle valves, and prevent possible damage to the diaphrams.
Ride safe, Ted
PS: There is one other way to dislodge trash. (believe it or not,,,, An old lawnmower mechanic told me about this).
You can use something like a Turkey Baster and push/pull gas in and out of the carbs with the valves open. The surging gas will dislodge trash...
BUT,, be aware that your splashing around a lot of flamable gas!!!!
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Thanks, on my way out to give it a shot
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OK ;D It at least appears that I can get her home. One of the two tricks did the job. I opened the vents/drain tubes. This could have unstuck the float/trash. I then gave her a shot of 13psi. Either way no leak at the moment.
Please forgive me here as it feels like some of you are spoon feeding me. The fuel line is a black line with a blue liner inside of it. Anyone have any experience with this type of fuel hose? I am curious if the blue lining isnt flaking off. I have had problems with this bike, but NEVER carb problems. I know that Steve went through them. So, two things; 1. Whatever sealant Jimmy used to coat the tank is coming off, or the fuel line is deteriorating. What says the collective?
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Well I made it home and still no leak. I checked my foam; I had a touch under an 1 1/2 piece in there. I went up 1.75. Runs much better. Now this may sound strange, but I swear my rpm's droped by @150. When ringing 60mph I was head mira 4k, on the way home it was under that??? This crazy bike is gonna drive me to drinking. You know the saying "aint nut'n free". ???
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Glad ya made it home safely.
Best way to determine if the coating in the tank is coming off, would be to look at the strainer/screen that is above the Petcock. If you see pieces of the coating
there, it can't be from the hose.
I'm not familiar with the blue lined hose. Have to ask Jimmy on that.
RPM's didn't drop!
It's all yer imagination.....
Either that, or the clutch has been slipping,,, and finally quit...
Ride it!!!!!!!!
Ride safe, Ted
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Hey Snarf.
How is the bike running today?
Carbs quit leaking?
Foam reset?
Ride safe, Ted
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Hey Snarf.
How is the bike running today?
Carbs quit leaking?
Foam reset?
Ride safe, Ted
Bike is running great for the most part. It seems to drop off on power around 6.5k rpm. 5th and 6th gearmainly. I cut. some various sizes of foam. going to try them out tomorrow.
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put in 1.75" foam, ride. :) Steve
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put in 1.75" foam, ride. :) Steve
I currently have 1.75" I do need to check my plug in my air box. I dont think it was very tight. Thanks again everyone.